737 Max

[Fast Eddie D]

Boeing is staring at an existential crisis if it cannot make safe 737 models.
A new clean sheet approach is needed, rather than keeping on using parts from older aircraft.

That's the way I see it, but does Boeing see it that way?

It seems to me that they're devolved to crass parts bin engineering, and that the 737 "Max" is the Cadillac Cimmaron of commercial jets.

 

[rayma]

Now, don't insult the Cadillac Cimmaron.

 

[Fast Eddie D]

That's harsh.

 

[Refugee1]

Cargo doors are a known problem.
I have found the story of one that blew in 1989 and they repaired the plane and put it back into service again too.
https://airscapemag.com/2017/02/08/ual-811-the-untold-story/

 

[Fast Eddie D]

Planes get repaired over and over again for decades, even sometimes after a catastrophic crash. The older a plane is, the closer it gets to being operated by bottom feeders like Jet Blue or Frontier. They'll fly it until it falls out of the sky.

 

[academia50]

........
" They'll fly it until it falls out of the sky. "


Here one of those "low cost" companies made an inaugural flight of 400 km.
It is known that they have a few airplanes purchased at low prices because they are very used, and that the pilots who fly them are willing to risk their lives - and the lives of others - for a much lower monetary remuneration than what a airline would pay them. prestige (that I would never hire them given their work history). I wonder which of these two was the reason for this plane to land dragging the entire rear fuselage.....

https://www.pagina12.com.ar/701750-una-forma-precaria-de-volar

 

[Fast Eddie D]

Plane fuselages are supposed to be x-rayed for stress cracks. The fuselage can suddenly fail catastrophically without warning.

It's happened too many times.

 

[gpauk]

Fortunately they evacuated it ok, but I was amazed how little there was left of the JAL plane that caught fire last week...

Re stress cracks, it's much harder with composite airframes to inspect. Someone I know who contracted to Boeing on the dreamliner, told me that if an airport tug biffs a composite frame, there's nothing visible to show for it, whereas an alloy frame gets a visible dent.

 

[academia50]

The thing is that the fuselage not cracked due to the intervention of internal factors or material fatigue, but rather it dragged on the runway....as if the plane had run out of landing gear or started taxiing at the wrong angle. I saw a video where the staff inspects the damage, there are several meters of damage, I will see if I can find it.

 

[academia50]

Here is the video

https://www.clarin.com/sociedad/vid...-suelo-aterrizaje-mar-plata_0_26r2dTMfEe.html

 

[Bonsai]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/08/united-finds-loose-bolts-boeing-737-max-planes

What is going on at Boeing?

 

[rayma]

The loose nuts are running the company. There's no way in hell that I would ever get on one of their planes.
What about all the things we haven't yet heard about?

 

[Bonsai]

There used to be a saying ‘if it ain’t a Boeing, I ain’t agoing’ and I think it came out of the McDonnell Douglas disasters in the 1960’s-1980’s.

I guess that’s now changed to ‘if its a Boeing, I ain’t agoing’

 

[rayma]

That plane was known to have a pressurization problem well before the incident,
and had been barred from long distance flights over water because of that.

But it was declared fine to fly over land! What if someone had been seated by that plug?
And if it were at cruising altitude? It was pure chance there was no fatalities.

 

[billshurv]

Of course that may happen a lot more often that you are aware of. ETOPS requirements are pretty strict as you might need to keep going for a very long time over the water. Over land there is often a runway within 30 minutes of you. Note I am not a pilot so happy as usual to be completely wrong...

 

[rayma]

If the door's gonna blow off, I'd rather be over water than land.

 

[billshurv]

I don't know the stats but before the hudson river landing I don't think there were many successful ditchings at sea of commercial planes other than the ones that went off the end of the runway into the drink.

 

[rayma]

I meant, if I'm sitting next to the plug. Even though the outcome would likely be the same either way.

 

[jackinnj]

That plane was known to have a pressurization problem well before the incident,
and had been barred from long distance flights over water because of that.

But it was declared fine to fly over land! What if someone had been seated by that plug?
It was pure chance there was no fatality.

I don't know how often pressurization issues are dismissed.

If it had occurred at higher altitude it would have been a bigger disaster, but 16,000 feet isn't trivial.

 

[rayma]

So airlines knowingly fly planes with established problems. Good to know.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/08/business/boeing-max-9-plane-grounded.html

And they now just want an exemption to safety regulations.
https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...iness-directives-the-boeing-company-airplanes