Does not hold up too well to an Iranian launched Russian SAM does it. Suspicious from the first time I heard the news, now the evidence is coming in, a sad day for the world. Not one American on board, how ironic
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Might have been an operator error. Reminds me of the shooting down of Malaysia MH17. Shot down over Ukraine by a Russian BUK missile.
All a/c send out a 4-digit code on SSR (secondary radar) coding for the type of aircraft and a few other things. Missile batteries use that code to discern friends or foes (IFF - Identification Friend or Foe).
Many years ago, the Ukraine rebels got their hands on a Russian BUK launcher, without the accompanying Control Centre which contains, among other comms stuff, the IFF decoding system. (The option to fire directly from the launcher without the CC is a fall-back emergency option).
It was clear after the crash that they were very surprised to find wreckage of a civil airliner instead parts of a Ukraine Forces aircraft.
Something similar might have happened with this crash. Rushing equipment and inexperienced crew to defend in an emergency and expecting a US plane any minute would have made them very trigger-happy.
Edit: anybody remember the incident when USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner departing from Tehran, long time ago? Same discussion, with the Iranians arguing that that plane squawked the correct IFF codes. But the Americans were on edge because the Iranian Air Force was flying US build Tomcats at the time. They said they tried repeatedly to contact the plane without success. And so it goes ...
Jan
All a/c send out a 4-digit code on SSR (secondary radar) coding for the type of aircraft and a few other things. Missile batteries use that code to discern friends or foes (IFF - Identification Friend or Foe).
Many years ago, the Ukraine rebels got their hands on a Russian BUK launcher, without the accompanying Control Centre which contains, among other comms stuff, the IFF decoding system. (The option to fire directly from the launcher without the CC is a fall-back emergency option).
It was clear after the crash that they were very surprised to find wreckage of a civil airliner instead parts of a Ukraine Forces aircraft.
Something similar might have happened with this crash. Rushing equipment and inexperienced crew to defend in an emergency and expecting a US plane any minute would have made them very trigger-happy.
Edit: anybody remember the incident when USS Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner departing from Tehran, long time ago? Same discussion, with the Iranians arguing that that plane squawked the correct IFF codes. But the Americans were on edge because the Iranian Air Force was flying US build Tomcats at the time. They said they tried repeatedly to contact the plane without success. And so it goes ...
Jan
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Understood, they murdered many of their own civilians and are liars, covering it up is the real issue. Nothing unusual for Iran, they assassinate their own civilians all the time, but now it involves others than their own civilians.
Absolutely stupid & irresponsible of everyone involved to have allowed any passenger airline to be operated under those conditions. F'd up world, what can I say.
Absolutely stupid & irresponsible of everyone involved to have allowed any passenger airline to be operated under those conditions. F'd up world, what can I say.
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True. At the time of the MH17 disaster, several airlines had taken the precaution to avoid that conflict area. Malasia was not on of them (they had departed from Amsterdam and their normal route was across Ukraine). It was believed that at 33,000ft there would be no danger of drawing fire.
In the aftermath, rules of flying above conflict areas were revised and are now more strict.
Jan
In the aftermath, rules of flying above conflict areas were revised and are now more strict.
Jan
Sure, for responsible countries, but Iran isn't one of them. Need to tighten up the rules some more I guess.
No Canadian airline will fly into Iran, (now are not allowed to fly in their air space = smart move) sad that Ukraine Air thought it would be okay. We'll see who is stupid enough to want to try again.
I know a few Iranian's over here, wonderful people, many left vowing never to return, knowing if they do, they will be persecuted. Big chance to take for any reason. Lessons learnt the hard way
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Perhaps it's time to stop discussing this latest tragedy. Too hot and too awful a topic, and, it's going against our rules. I apologize for posting the initial link.
I hope you are okay with that.
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I am done, okay I agree = sorry, I vented enough, lets just mourn the worlds losses of wonderful innocent people.
audio discussions are way more important = NOT
Time to feed Mom anyways, have a nice evening Cal.
audio discussions are way more important = NOT
Time to feed Mom anyways, have a nice evening Cal.
This thread reeks of contention as it proposes an expectation of performance/safety by (among others) a government agency.
Not saying that there aren’t some technical avenues within the topic, but that’s my two cents anyways.
Not saying that there aren’t some technical avenues within the topic, but that’s my two cents anyways.
What conditions? That was not a war area, no armed conflict going on. It is the ICAO who determines the hazards of flying through certain areas, they issue the recommendations. Should they have foreseen this?
Sometimes things happen and can be explained afterwards without a clear indication who's fault it is, if at all. Same with MH17 and the USS Vincennes shooting down an Iranian airliner.
Jan
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During the first Iraq war we flew over the Persian Gulf at night on the way to the UK and were slightly alarmed when there was a cabin announcement that the cabin lights were to be extinguished for security reasons. It sounds crazy I know, but it's a true story.
And it was Malaysian Airlines too...
And it was Malaysian Airlines too...
That was useless anyway; no air defense system uses eyeball acquisition anymore since, ohh, 1945?
Jan
Jan
Jan 🙂 I was advised to stop this conversation, against the forums rules I was told.
It was just on the CBC news, the US FAA had announced a few hours earlier to the downing, (once the first missile attack started) that no US civilian aircraft was to fly into/over the Iranian air space. I guess the FAA and ICAO do not agree with each other.
It was just on the CBC news, the US FAA had announced a few hours earlier to the downing, (once the first missile attack started) that no US civilian aircraft was to fly into/over the Iranian air space. I guess the FAA and ICAO do not agree with each other.
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I think we are allowed to discuss facts, without naming and shaming or politics.
Yeah there's always the timing thing with several agencies involved. And the Iranians may not follow everything the FAA said anyway as the FAA is strictly national agency.
Sad.
Jan
Yeah there's always the timing thing with several agencies involved. And the Iranians may not follow everything the FAA said anyway as the FAA is strictly national agency.
Sad.
Jan
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The Iranians do not follow anything, anybody says and one can not or should not believe anything they say.
Very sad world.
As I said to Mom yesterday, human behavior is not 2020AD, it is still 2020BC
Very sad world.
As I said to Mom yesterday, human behavior is not 2020AD, it is still 2020BC
All this Iranian stuff should be in another thread really as it has nothing to do with the 737 Max and it's technical problems.
Also the 737 issues are pretty much non-political, something that can not be said by any stretch about the turn this thread has taken.
Also the 737 issues are pretty much non-political, something that can not be said by any stretch about the turn this thread has taken.
I quite like those Dash 8's though.
Do wonder why they chose to implement all these differences in the 737 max, it seems a little bit unfinished somehow.
Do wonder why they chose to implement all these differences in the 737 max, it seems a little bit unfinished somehow.
The newest ultra-high bypass engines are even higher efficiency, albeit resulting in changes and compromises that seem beyond what the airframe should accommodate.
A little later (no time now) I am going back and deleting those deemed political in nature. If yours is one and you wish to repost it without any reference to the politics, PM me.
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