Hello folks, been using this site for ages and finally have a question to ask that is a little beyond me...
Firstly, I have the most unusual set of ovoid/egg speakers. they are huge and if i can work out how to post a pic i will, I have no information on them as there is literally nothing online...70s,80,90s who knows. They have 10" and 4" vifa drivers with 90mm vifa tweeters
Secondly, i am about to put some 70hzt tweeters in them from the Sony SSB2ED so i can enjoy SACD and HDMI Master Audio etc from the PC... right pain in the bum to fit but hopefully not beyond me. My question is do i need to swap crossovers as the range goes way beyond the 20khz range of standard tweeters. I would have thought the crossover would not restrict anything above 20Hkz but i am keen to learn.
Also the 10" drivers dont match, ones has a bigger magnet and a concave dust cover the other err... has the opposite. they sound amazing but looks wise i would like the drivers to match, sound wise there is no difference... I have been mooching round ebay for months and seas/ vifa drivers cost too much, is there a cheaper alternative especially as i have a very good sub, can i get away with cheap 10" drivers and let the exeptional tweeters and 4" mids do the singing and my sub to do the booming just to take up the slack of cheaper bass drivers...
now to try and upload some pics...
I managed it i think... some of the pics are from before they were resprayed so the look a bit better now...
Firstly, I have the most unusual set of ovoid/egg speakers. they are huge and if i can work out how to post a pic i will, I have no information on them as there is literally nothing online...70s,80,90s who knows. They have 10" and 4" vifa drivers with 90mm vifa tweeters
Secondly, i am about to put some 70hzt tweeters in them from the Sony SSB2ED so i can enjoy SACD and HDMI Master Audio etc from the PC... right pain in the bum to fit but hopefully not beyond me. My question is do i need to swap crossovers as the range goes way beyond the 20khz range of standard tweeters. I would have thought the crossover would not restrict anything above 20Hkz but i am keen to learn.
Also the 10" drivers dont match, ones has a bigger magnet and a concave dust cover the other err... has the opposite. they sound amazing but looks wise i would like the drivers to match, sound wise there is no difference... I have been mooching round ebay for months and seas/ vifa drivers cost too much, is there a cheaper alternative especially as i have a very good sub, can i get away with cheap 10" drivers and let the exeptional tweeters and 4" mids do the singing and my sub to do the booming just to take up the slack of cheaper bass drivers...
now to try and upload some pics...
I managed it i think... some of the pics are from before they were resprayed so the look a bit better now...
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Your assumption is correct, there is not top cut off with the crossover. Why have tweeters at 70KHz? Human ears at best cut off at 18KHz.
There is a deffinate resonance around the room from 70khz when a piano is playing you can hear the air hitting the side of the piano etc, its more of a sensation than a sound. blew me away when i first heard the difference. a bit like a sixth sense... the sound changes as its bounced round the room if you know what i mean. There really is a genuine difference...a clap in an anachoic chamber will sound different to one outside.
P.s. many thanks for confirming about the crossovers, makes a job fitting 95mm tweeters into a 90mm hole a bit less complex... some real choping involved there as my original face plates have 3 screws and a 3/4 inch hole, and no cut out for the dust cover protector mesh on relacement tweeters
In the last couple of weeks while waiting for my speakers to be resprayed i have had 50khz speakers, 70khz speakers and two sets of 20khz speakers wired up and there is a difference, it depends on the audio played but if a cd only punts out 44-48Khz and a hdmi amp via a well set up PC can punt 192khz then that is a difference. That is nearly 4 x the difference so i guess by the time its bounced around the room 20,000 times a second it has time to evolve before vibrating the hairs in your inner ear. I had my ears tested two years ago and i have very good hearing indeed, Even my non music loving neighbour asked if had bought a new amp as the speakers looked the same... just wish i could afford decent 10" drivers... bass can only be "felt" below 20 odd hz...
Hi,
Quite frankly the crossover looks pretty poor for a 3 way.
Swapping tweeters may help as one is clearly very damaged.
rgds, sreten.
Quite frankly the crossover looks pretty poor for a 3 way.
Swapping tweeters may help as one is clearly very damaged.
rgds, sreten.
I was told by a specialist that simple is good when is comes to crossovers, The pics are old from when i first bought them. They have been profesionaly resprayed and the tweeters replaced with bog standard mission ones and i replaced the dust caps on the midranges . just got the woofers to replace now... money, money, money... any advice on crossovers is welcome but they really do sound good apart from the 20htz mission tweeters get a bit shrill when really giving it the berries, oddly 70khs sorted it completely... I must also add ovoid/ egg shape speakers really are a good shape to give a good sound, plenty of litres for less space...
Crossover complexity is not the only issue, its component quality is another. The components in the pictured crossovers are bottom of the barrel. Interesting enclosures though, I'd turn them into a two way.
Thanks for the advice, would i be better replacing the component parts of the crossover or sourcing second hand complete crossovers. My plan from the start was to replace all the drivers over time to spread the cost although from what i have learned Vifa are pretty good so not sure what to replace them with. the vifa tweeters that came with them were damaged and blown so i just got mission ones, oddly made by vifa... same ones that go in rodgers, linn, tannoy, etc. the sony ones i have sourced are very good indeed from Sonys extended deffinition range, Most sony stuff is pretty poo but not these. I recently learned sony do every thing from plastic bedroom rubbish right up to £20.000 speakers in there ES range.
The 4" vifa midranges are prooving very difficult to source, in fact the only ones i can find are pretty much the same and over a £100.
I would love to find a decent set of 4" and 10" drivers in a good second hand speaker set to keep costs down but non are about....
The 4" vifa midranges are prooving very difficult to source, in fact the only ones i can find are pretty much the same and over a £100.
I would love to find a decent set of 4" and 10" drivers in a good second hand speaker set to keep costs down but non are about....
Its the first time i heard someone is working with a 70khz tweeter..You mean you are doing it at 70khz resonant frequency?
If so, you will need a cap value of 0.2mfd and a coil of 0.025mH..I hope you can here it.
If so, you will need a cap value of 0.2mfd and a coil of 0.025mH..I hope you can here it.
The original tweeter mount has 3 screws and is 90mm wide with a 23mm hole, the 70khz Sony one has 4 screws and is 95mm wide with a 30mm hole. have to scribe lines for the protective mesh cover as well. its right on the limits of my talent...
As far as i know regular tweeters go to 20khz, ribbon tweeters can go to 25khz ish. Sony seem to be the only company that went down the higher frequency 40khz to 70khz to compiment the SACD format. Some Sony Blueray players support SACD and the early playstation 3 did. Unfortunatley the cost of the discs did not help £100-£200 so as with Quadraphonic did not really take off.
Most pink floyd some beach boys, Jean michelle Jarre and plenty of others were originally made in 4Q and then reduced to stereo as the format did not take off, I have managed to locate lots and lots of 4Q and SACD and now the PC is set up properly and going via HDMI i can tell you its a the difference between DVD and Blueray... Hate to upset the purists but i think the standard CD is in its demise now Blueray and Dolby Digital Master Audio has come umong us... i also suppose if you have crap hearing is does not matter how good the set up is, I can hear a real and noticable difference but my ears are only 40 years old, I have heard that the higher frequency helps as your hearing goes down hill after you are 40 as thats the age when it all starts to go in the higher frequency
As far as i know regular tweeters go to 20khz, ribbon tweeters can go to 25khz ish. Sony seem to be the only company that went down the higher frequency 40khz to 70khz to compiment the SACD format. Some Sony Blueray players support SACD and the early playstation 3 did. Unfortunatley the cost of the discs did not help £100-£200 so as with Quadraphonic did not really take off.
Most pink floyd some beach boys, Jean michelle Jarre and plenty of others were originally made in 4Q and then reduced to stereo as the format did not take off, I have managed to locate lots and lots of 4Q and SACD and now the PC is set up properly and going via HDMI i can tell you its a the difference between DVD and Blueray... Hate to upset the purists but i think the standard CD is in its demise now Blueray and Dolby Digital Master Audio has come umong us... i also suppose if you have crap hearing is does not matter how good the set up is, I can hear a real and noticable difference but my ears are only 40 years old, I have heard that the higher frequency helps as your hearing goes down hill after you are 40 as thats the age when it all starts to go in the higher frequency
Sorry forgot to ask what a cap value is and how i get the coil of 0.025mh as i have no idea what they are... cheers.
Here are some pics, as you can see the sony is no toy... this is a blown one i sourced for mock up. I have to somehow get the Sony internals into the Vifa 3 screw face plates. I can get the face plate retextured by a friend in the motor trade and the mesh covers the centre hole that i need to widen to 30mm
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The Mission looks like an old 19mm supronyl tweeter. Probably Seas. By hole you mean dome? edit- Vifa HT195 = Vifa D19TD-05-08 or Seas K19F
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yes bog standard D19TD, very harsh when driven hard. Those Sony tweeters are very very underated. I did back to back comparisons with neighbours various Htz speakers and Sony was in a different league. probably nothing to do with Htz output but they were considerably better than scanspeak d2008 i managed to borrow... and third of the price...
And as far as swapping out the woofers for cheap ones, you'll have to match the T/S parameters pretty close for them to work in those eggs. On the crossover, sometimes less is more. PE has Piezo tweeters that go to 40khz for like 3 bucks a piece. fyi everything that I owned that said sony on it was junk.
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yes bog standard D19TD, very harsh when driven hard. Those Sony tweeters are very very underated. I did back to back comparisons with neighbours various Htz speakers and Sony was in a different league. probably nothing to do with Htz output but they were considerably better than scanspeak d2008 i managed to borrow... and third of the price...
The harshness you hear is probably due to over excursion causing very bad IM distortion higher up. Swapping various tweeters without changing the crossover is an exercise in futility.
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