I agree whole heartedly with first sentence; sheilding on speaker cable makes little difference.
I have heard claims that shielded interconnects sound 'boxed in' compared to unshielded. It would be interesting to try to perceive this effect on a balanced interconnect where noise is more or less eliminated as a contributing factor.
2 cents worth
I'm using the braided cat5 speaker cables found here and when my friend and I built(wove) them they were much better sounding than the Kimber 4tc that we were using at the time.
Amp then was audio alchemist and speakers still are Lascalas.
I also tried the cat5 as ic and was not impressed. I didn't however try the cat wire spireled on a tube former.
Hugh
I'm using the braided cat5 speaker cables found here and when my friend and I built(wove) them they were much better sounding than the Kimber 4tc that we were using at the time.
Amp then was audio alchemist and speakers still are Lascalas.
I also tried the cat5 as ic and was not impressed. I didn't however try the cat wire spireled on a tube former.
Hugh
I used cat5 for speaker cable and am not that impressed. The highs seem a little better, but not much. I read something the other day about RCA cables and using 3 cables per rca.
2 cables would be the ground and on of the 2 would just end right before the other side of the RCA. So on one side you would have 3 cables total, the other just 2 cables. I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Has anybody tried this? Anybody know why this might help? I also saw a high end IC site that sold some rcas for about $500 for 1m with the 3 conductor concept. I'll do some searching and try and find these sites.
2 cables would be the ground and on of the 2 would just end right before the other side of the RCA. So on one side you would have 3 cables total, the other just 2 cables. I don't understand the reasoning behind this. Has anybody tried this? Anybody know why this might help? I also saw a high end IC site that sold some rcas for about $500 for 1m with the 3 conductor concept. I'll do some searching and try and find these sites.
For you canadians out there, i found a good source for a great cat5 cable.
http://www.takefiveaudio.com/belden_cat5_plenum.htm
they have a cyro treated version of it and it could be sourced by the foot. i guess if there is an ideal cat5 for speaker cable, it would be this. cant wait to try it out.
at 0.69 CAN/foot, thats a pretty great deal for speaker cable, just hope it sounds good. Has anyone tried this cable or something similar in a single pair configuration with a gainclone?
http://www.takefiveaudio.com/belden_cat5_plenum.htm
they have a cyro treated version of it and it could be sourced by the foot. i guess if there is an ideal cat5 for speaker cable, it would be this. cant wait to try it out.
at 0.69 CAN/foot, thats a pretty great deal for speaker cable, just hope it sounds good. Has anyone tried this cable or something similar in a single pair configuration with a gainclone?
edjosh23 said:
The three wires MUST then be braided. Been doing it for nearly 20 years. The idea is that it creates a pseudo shield, yet it has no shield, is ultra-low capacitance etc. Right now use it in my system from the turntable/cartridge, low output MC to Phono Stage and I'm getting NO hum. You don't need a shield to get hum rejection. There is some common-mode that suppresses the hum (you don't need balanced to get CMR, but likely you don't get as much). For extra RF rejection, add a 100R resistor at the end of the un-terminated wire and therminate through the resistor.
But for critical application, as in the application just explained, use small diameter than Cat5, i.e. thin single core braided tightly. Try different wires, even silver solid core if that takes your fancy.
Take a look at this is photo of the prototype JLTi Phono Stage and look closely at the wire/interconnects:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~joeras/index.html#Announcing
Look kinda thin, don't they?
Joe R.
homer09 said:
As a matter of fact(aamaf?), I finished my first GC yesterday(perf board experimental) and have been playing it today and everything seems fine.
Given that all the parts are junk box and I've one 36v ct xformer and single bridge for both channels it sounds very good.
I did use the zobel network on the output.
I like using stranded wire for internal runs. just a personal prefferance.
Hugh
For the most part especially for our uses cable impedance at audio frequencies is irrelevant. Try whatever you have around.
I would think that a good quality rg-58 with stranded core should sound ok. The capacitance might muffle the top end a bit tho.
Try stripping the shield and using 2 center pieces as sig and return like homer09 suggests.
Is there a reason why you think the wire should be 26 ga?
For ICs I have tried Co-ax(mah!
), braided cat 5dead: ), mic cable(should be availlable at local supplier at a good enough price to experiment)(was OK), Ultralink (the blue stuff that RS used to sell off the roll) (decent), Ultralink Platinum premade (Ihave 2 pairs and they are quite good), and generic 1 and 2 pair foil shield, grey jacket(better than the stock rca cables that come with most consumer stuff.
Beldon used to make a single conductor mic/guitar cable that was very flexable with a neoprene center insulation. I have some old ics made from that and it meets or beats any of the cheaper ics I've bought over the years.
Part of the fun is trying these things to see for yourself what the differances, if any, may be.
Buy a bunch of RCA cons and----
Try it!!
Hugh
I would think that a good quality rg-58 with stranded core should sound ok. The capacitance might muffle the top end a bit tho.
Try stripping the shield and using 2 center pieces as sig and return like homer09 suggests.
Is there a reason why you think the wire should be 26 ga?
For ICs I have tried Co-ax(mah!
), braided cat 5dead: ), mic cable(should be availlable at local supplier at a good enough price to experiment)(was OK), Ultralink (the blue stuff that RS used to sell off the roll) (decent), Ultralink Platinum premade (Ihave 2 pairs and they are quite good), and generic 1 and 2 pair foil shield, grey jacket(better than the stock rca cables that come with most consumer stuff.Beldon used to make a single conductor mic/guitar cable that was very flexable with a neoprene center insulation. I have some old ics made from that and it meets or beats any of the cheaper ics I've bought over the years.
Part of the fun is trying these things to see for yourself what the differances, if any, may be.
Buy a bunch of RCA cons and----
Try it!!
Hugh
I made my first pair of RCAs today . The righ channel is the inside of 2 coaxial cables and the left is the 3 conductor cat5 cablewith the "psuedo shield" (braided). I'm using RadioShack connections because I haven't had time to price hunt and order a nice set of RCAs.
Comparing the two is a little difficult, after listening to the first cd you can tell that the coaxial internal RCAs are more detailed, Imaging wize, I can't really tell a difference. At first I thought that the coaxial had a little less bass, but that was just the song and position of the bass guitar. The trebble seems to be better in the coaxial, but I must say the cat5 is quite good. The coaxial and the cat5 are pretty close on the bass, and I think if anything the cat5 has more predominant bass. The cat5 is the silver coated copper. I also have the copper cat5 and it might have been a better comparison, but I didn't think of that. These are just first impressions really so nothing is definate, but after more listening I can give you more info. Also the coaxial was what I had laying around the house, as was the cat5.
My listening position is not perfectly in the center. I'm using my wr125s for speakers. I'm sure the connections are taking the SQ down a little bit. Compared to the Monster cable RCAs, I'd say I prefer my new ones. If I change out some wiring I'll hook up my pair of B&W 602 S3s and I might be able to make a better comparison.
edit: my version of bass in these speakers is pretty high, they don't go down very low.
Thanks,
Josh
. The righ channel is the inside of 2 coaxial cables and the left is the 3 conductor cat5 cablewith the "psuedo shield" (braided). I'm using RadioShack connections because I haven't had time to price hunt and order a nice set of RCAs.Comparing the two is a little difficult, after listening to the first cd you can tell that the coaxial internal RCAs are more detailed, Imaging wize, I can't really tell a difference. At first I thought that the coaxial had a little less bass, but that was just the song and position of the bass guitar. The trebble seems to be better in the coaxial, but I must say the cat5 is quite good. The coaxial and the cat5 are pretty close on the bass, and I think if anything the cat5 has more predominant bass. The cat5 is the silver coated copper. I also have the copper cat5 and it might have been a better comparison, but I didn't think of that. These are just first impressions really so nothing is definate, but after more listening I can give you more info. Also the coaxial was what I had laying around the house, as was the cat5.
My listening position is not perfectly in the center. I'm using my wr125s for speakers. I'm sure the connections are taking the SQ down a little bit. Compared to the Monster cable RCAs, I'd say I prefer my new ones. If I change out some wiring I'll hook up my pair of B&W 602 S3s and I might be able to make a better comparison.
edit: my version of bass in these speakers is pretty high, they don't go down very low.
Thanks,
Josh
Hi Guys
I just finished my VSPS(hard wired on perf board) and my first connections were some old twisted pair shielded grey cable I had laying around. I have since made ICs from a piece of cat 6 my friend gave me. They are done like Kimbers as I saw in one of Carlosfms posts. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16928&highlight=
Much better than what I had. Good detail. Have to listen for a while tho. Seems a little weak on the bottom end but more accurate?
Going to listen for a while. definitly worth doing to compare.
When I did cat 5 ICs before I used the twisted pairs in braided form and I think they had way to much capacitance and acted as high filter.
Hugh
I just finished my VSPS(hard wired on perf board) and my first connections were some old twisted pair shielded grey cable I had laying around. I have since made ICs from a piece of cat 6 my friend gave me. They are done like Kimbers as I saw in one of Carlosfms posts. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16928&highlight=
Much better than what I had. Good detail. Have to listen for a while tho. Seems a little weak on the bottom end but more accurate?
Going to listen for a while. definitly worth doing to compare.
When I did cat 5 ICs before I used the twisted pairs in braided form and I think they had way to much capacitance and acted as high filter.
Hugh
Hugh M said:
Hugh, how were you using cat5 before?
Using the complete cable for an interconnect (selecting the whites for ground) results in complete disaster...
That's because the crossing is different on each pair, AND the cable has high capacitance.
The resulting sound is a prominent bass, wich is also delaied from the rest of the spectum.
Strip them and make'em "a la Kimber", with 4 wires (two wires for ground): very good results.
carlosfm said:
Hugh, how were you using cat5 before?
Using the complete cable for an interconnect (selecting the whites for ground) results in complete disaster...
That's because the crossing is different on each pair, AND the cable has high capacitance.
The resulting sound is a prominent bass, wich is also delaied from the rest of the spectum.
Strip them and make'em "a la Kimber", with 4 wires (two wires for ground): very good results.
Thats exactly what I did this time Carlos. When I tried it four or five years ago I had braided 3 twisted pairs together and it sounded exactly like you said.
Thanks for the idea.
While I'm on the subject, I'd like to thank you and every one else on the forum for the inspiration and information to get me going on building a better sounding system.
I have tried out my VSPS and find it quite pleasing but look forward to getting better caps for it. And I have plans to build a pre-amp based on your 627/134 combo. Also I would like to bi-amp my Lascala's with IBGC with the active crossover in the buffer of each amp.
By the way Carlos, very nice work on the preamp boards. I like to build on perf board too.
Thank You
Hugh
homer09 said:
Strip the cat5 cable, uncross 2 pairs (4 wires), put them all straight.
Solder on the first RCA plug cross a few centimeters, put some shrinking tube, cramp the cable to the plug.
Hold the plug to something or ask for help
.With the RCA plug well secured, holding one pair in each hand, cross them tight.
Solder the other plug, some shrinking tube, hold it, done.
Let the cable
-in for some days, it doesn't sound so good at first.This is not a shielded cable, but for most line-level applications it's fine and it sounds very good indeed.
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