An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Im happy now, Black 10uf wasnt in stock, so I got Blue 10uf and 15uf, as they cost hardly any more.
I have ordered, but not payed, as I need to double check I have everything right,
The only concern is the 2.7ohm resistance of the midrange inductor, If the mid range driver isnt loud enougth.. And removing the 1ohm series resister isnt enougth, I may have to buy 2 more inductors with less resistance.
Im pleased atually, I have learnt alot about how crossovers work, without really trying, Maybe for my next project I will take the time to design my own, instead of adapting one that looks to be well suited.
Here are a few pics, More showing the ply attatched will be comming as soon as I finish squaring up the cabinets with cardboard and slices of paper...
(This was owing to my unsquare cutting router, and the 25.55 something panels...) + my own inaccuracy alining and squaring the router fence for each panel indevisually by eye.
I will one day have a table saw, That will take the panel cutting phase from 4 weeks down to about 2 hours!
Some pics
The little blocks to screw my 32cm by 22cm xover panel on (I HOPE its big enougth)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And here, you can see, I have fitted my "lonely" braces, I have screwed my xover blocks, and I have sealed the top boxes with awfull ,B&Q rubbish sealant. And I have sealed the bass cabs with much better, No more nails.
The light In this picture makes it the best quality photo my camera recorder has managed to date!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here they are, with the fronts flush square sanded ready to recieve the front panels...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And finally! Here is my method for squaring the boxes, ready for the flush cutting router bit
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Yes, and if i reed to remove the 1ohm from the midrange circit, I can add it in series to the tweeter
giving the choice of 3.3 4.3 4.7 and 5.7
I have a feeling this tweeter will need the 4.7, but I will see how it goes, resisters will be the last thing to be soldered onto my xover board.
I am glueing the side panels onto the midrange boxes, I am adding a strip of card 1mm thick around the entire box, to allow for any further deviations, as my router bit has a tendency to make the outer section of the cut a tiny bit liss than the inner section. (unsquare), that way I can flush trim it a tiny it extra and finish it square to the side panels with a sanding block. That way there should be no gaps what so ever in the final cabinet, despite the slightly imperfect boxes
Been very busy working on my project and being at work.
I have recieved my xover components, Man these parts are HUGE, hope it all fits on my 22 by 32 cm xover board
I have untill the 21st to finish my project, as i have to but the workshop back into a lounge ready for the new tenants
Luckly i can build the xover in my room later. just HAVE to get these cabinets finished.
So far so good, here is a nice little picture of the top boxes, - final sanding/waxing
And here is my method for glueing the first of the 4 side panels on the bass cabinets. Not good to do this with a bad back, and being a skinny thing like i am...
I had to do the side panels first so i can flush plane/sand them to the top and back, this method is very usefull for making imperfect boxes look perfect.. luckely my theory worked. one more pic of my lovely mid cabs to demonstrate
One minor note, do these xover components have a polarity? or can i wire them any way around as long as the polarity of the main circuts are intact?
I have recieved my xover components, Man these parts are HUGE, hope it all fits on my 22 by 32 cm xover board
I have untill the 21st to finish my project, as i have to but the workshop back into a lounge ready for the new tenants
Luckly i can build the xover in my room later. just HAVE to get these cabinets finished.
So far so good, here is a nice little picture of the top boxes, - final sanding/waxing
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And here is my method for glueing the first of the 4 side panels on the bass cabinets. Not good to do this with a bad back, and being a skinny thing like i am...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I had to do the side panels first so i can flush plane/sand them to the top and back, this method is very usefull for making imperfect boxes look perfect.. luckely my theory worked. one more pic of my lovely mid cabs to demonstrate
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
One minor note, do these xover components have a polarity? or can i wire them any way around as long as the polarity of the main circuts are intact?
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I thought it was about time I showed a picture of my progress so far...
I just need to finish sanding the cabinets, and wax them. Then fit the terminals on the bass cabinets. Then I need to screw in the drivers. The xover will be made last and used external to the cabinet during testing. Then screwed into place when im happy with it
Port ended up tuned at 26hz box volume about 100liters! In my test the woofers handled alot of volume without moving too much, so tuning higher for a higher spl would have been pointless. I added a layer of recycles plastic polyester type stuff at the rear of the cabinets only, and with this arrangement the ports are not out putting any other frequencys above "bass". During my frequency tone generator tests i did manage to find the port pipe harmonic. but with the final port at just 23cm long it is at about 500hz and is neglegeble (larger box volume needs shorter port)
The upper cabs are lined at the rear and top sides with sponge, with a nest of fiberglass
When I have finished, I will upload loads of pictures and wright a report of the steps taken, along with a user review.
But for now
I just need to finish sanding the cabinets, and wax them. Then fit the terminals on the bass cabinets. Then I need to screw in the drivers. The xover will be made last and used external to the cabinet during testing. Then screwed into place when im happy with it
Port ended up tuned at 26hz box volume about 100liters! In my test the woofers handled alot of volume without moving too much, so tuning higher for a higher spl would have been pointless. I added a layer of recycles plastic polyester type stuff at the rear of the cabinets only, and with this arrangement the ports are not out putting any other frequencys above "bass". During my frequency tone generator tests i did manage to find the port pipe harmonic. but with the final port at just 23cm long it is at about 500hz and is neglegeble (larger box volume needs shorter port)
The upper cabs are lined at the rear and top sides with sponge, with a nest of fiberglass
When I have finished, I will upload loads of pictures and wright a report of the steps taken, along with a user review.
But for now
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I wanted to. But I was afraid my cheep router might mess things up. Too late now.
Because If i had not got them perfect which is hard with dulling router bits and my pin board router jig... I thought it best in the end to save time and trouble and keep it simple. The drivers also have a sight slant on the cassis. I also thought, if ever in say 5-10 years time i nee a replacement driver, it may be hard to get one to fit.
They still look good. And i dont think it will really afftect the sound to negitivaly.
cabinets dont vibrate thats a big+
Because If i had not got them perfect which is hard with dulling router bits and my pin board router jig... I thought it best in the end to save time and trouble and keep it simple. The drivers also have a sight slant on the cassis. I also thought, if ever in say 5-10 years time i nee a replacement driver, it may be hard to get one to fit.
They still look good. And i dont think it will really afftect the sound to negitivaly.
cabinets dont vibrate thats a big+
Oh, yeah they look great. If your drivers are made with rounded basket edges then it's not necessary, but with square edged faceplates, especially tweeters, you will run into issues. Take a look here:
Zaph|Audio
I did round over the inside of the mid range to give it more space......... Lets hope that pro along with many others allows me to get away with my surface mounted tweeter... In hind sight prehaps I should have tryed, but at the time I was feeling overwelmed abit, oh well always next time
like so....
and in case you wondering what the holes are for, they where origionaly intended for screws, then i decided to up the design with the ply. so they became cheif matchstick holes....
like so (see the box behind the one with the driver placed for a test
You can also see the "depth" for the mid and tweeter are the same. so if them not being flush mounted is a concern, when i am more experianced i may be able to shape a faceplate that curves back to the sides in a elegant way. we shall see
Tomorrow I will sand the woofer cabinets, I was going to use 2-3 layers of clear wax, that should darken the wood and make it ritcher, if not, (i have a testrunning) i may try a stained wax, but this may be pointless as the grain of the ply wont stain well anyway
edit. u can only just see 2 matchsick dowles lf you look carefully.
also the tweeter holes where cut at 45degree angles with a chizle as i wanted the for screw cross shame alined verticaly, to match the hexagon on the mid....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
and in case you wondering what the holes are for, they where origionaly intended for screws, then i decided to up the design with the ply. so they became cheif matchstick holes....
like so (see the box behind the one with the driver placed for a test
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You can also see the "depth" for the mid and tweeter are the same. so if them not being flush mounted is a concern, when i am more experianced i may be able to shape a faceplate that curves back to the sides in a elegant way. we shall see
Tomorrow I will sand the woofer cabinets, I was going to use 2-3 layers of clear wax, that should darken the wood and make it ritcher, if not, (i have a testrunning) i may try a stained wax, but this may be pointless as the grain of the ply wont stain well anyway
edit. u can only just see 2 matchsick dowles lf you look carefully.
also the tweeter holes where cut at 45degree angles with a chizle as i wanted the for screw cross shame alined verticaly, to match the hexagon on the mid....
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**** It! one more pic... Unsanded and unstained at this point, you can clearly not see how my camera hides the imperfections and show the beauty of the wood...
The ports where such a tight fit, I had to mallet them in,
I then sealed them inside the cabinet with no more nailys after testing the tuning was around 26hz. i also wrapped blue plasticy foam stuff around them heald snugly in place with 3 purple and 2 green elastic bands (incase the plastic pipe has a resonance or 2)
And i should shut up now, because i want to make a full write up detailing mty construction "secrets"
One thing to note, with the tuning of 26hz, the driver still doesnt lose controll untill about 20hz which is supprising and usefill, I managed to play "bass i love you" and was supprised that the woofer didnt flap about as much as most do with that "song"
from my testing a higher tuning would have been stupid with a 100l box
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The ports where such a tight fit, I had to mallet them in,
I then sealed them inside the cabinet with no more nailys after testing the tuning was around 26hz. i also wrapped blue plasticy foam stuff around them heald snugly in place with 3 purple and 2 green elastic bands (incase the plastic pipe has a resonance or 2)
And i should shut up now, because i want to make a full write up detailing mty construction "secrets"
One thing to note, with the tuning of 26hz, the driver still doesnt lose controll untill about 20hz which is supprising and usefill, I managed to play "bass i love you" and was supprised that the woofer didnt flap about as much as most do with that "song"
from my testing a higher tuning would have been stupid with a 100l box
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Excuse me? So am a a genius yet? I guess a hearing test is needed before I can confirm your complement
I am hoping my new set up will be even more "in your face" (as you put it) than the previous one i showed you
Still each to his own....
And it isnt re ininventing the wheel, it is building my own personal wheel. I learn more this way. And my speakers will be 100% unique. If they sound like junk I will be honest about it, and seek further advice
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I guess i should have posted some pictures of the finished article earlier. I just didn't bother as my thread didn't seem to gain much interest because i ignored loads of peoples advice and p****d them off..
but no matter, my speakers are finished (almost) and sounding
Here are 2 pictures, If you would like more info let me know and i will be happy to provide.
I did use the PMS crossover. with one slight modification, i changed the series tweeter resister to 4.7 ohms
These speakers are tight and punchy have good low bass response, a fairly decent volume handling, and a good full sound. vocals sound balanced which is the main test of a good speaker.
I am driving them with a LINN LK85 Amp, which is ample
sound is good enough to get completely dissolved/immersed in the music. which is the point of a high quality sound-system.
I would like to thank
Dr Dyna and Inductor for helping me up to the end
and i "suppose" i should thank Troels Gravesen, for just so happening to have a pretty perfect crossover all ready designed for me...
but no matter, my speakers are finished (almost) and sounding
Here are 2 pictures, If you would like more info let me know and i will be happy to provide.
I did use the PMS crossover. with one slight modification, i changed the series tweeter resister to 4.7 ohms
These speakers are tight and punchy have good low bass response, a fairly decent volume handling, and a good full sound. vocals sound balanced which is the main test of a good speaker.
I am driving them with a LINN LK85 Amp, which is ample
sound is good enough to get completely dissolved/immersed in the music. which is the point of a high quality sound-system.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I would like to thank
Dr Dyna and Inductor for helping me up to the end
and i "suppose" i should thank Troels Gravesen, for just so happening to have a pretty perfect crossover all ready designed for me...
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Excuse me, WaVeInFoRm, but "FRANKLY" I get tired of being misquoted. I merely pointed out that you were a blind man walking around without a stick unless you found a decent crossover design.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I would say a BIG THANKYOU to Troels Gravesen for getting you something decent.
Poor Man'
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Maybe a second order tweeter filter and a Zobel (7.5R + 1uF) might sound better, I don't know...
But FANTASTIC work! You are to be congratulated. Could it have been prettier? Should you add a vent to the midrange? Beech battens and damping panels and polyester foam wadding a la Harbeth? Bit boomy in a small room? All these things make you wonder. Very well done. Thanks for sharing. I was always on your side.
I'm looking at building the the PMS for a center channel (long story), but can you confirm the xo diagram on Troel's page is accurate, and not a typo? Sorry, but I'm a rookie when it comes to xo design. But my concern is that the xo design for the tweeter calls for a 10uf and 15uf in series. When I looked that up on crossover calculator, it came back as a 4th order xo at 1.8khz, and not the 3-4Khz. A bit concerned because I'm planning on using spare expensive (Mundorf) caps that I bought for another project, and don't want to blow out the tweeters. Thanks! J
Yer cheerz system 7
Your right, my speakers would probably have sounded crap without that xover design.
Lookin back at how i built these, i would say it was a mixture of good intuition and luck.
Still, sounding lovely. Currently all piled in a mono stack oweing to temporary space shortage.
They marry very well indeed to my tapped horn i built with some old username a few years prior.
...am trying desperately to find the build thread.. Well u know my lower tunin ting i had a ting for... Well its a Eminence Definimax 4012HO simmed to 25hz, simuler to a 30hz horn made by someone else at the time, only longer, pretty sure it was in the collaborative tapped horn project thread.
Oh yer, and for the tapped horn v br debate..
The two 10inch seas drivers in my vented cabs don't do much compared to the horn in the 22-40hz sorta range. They can produce the notes, just the sub horn bass sounds more 'real' somehow. Well its prettymuch a wide bandwidth organ pipe. Just sorta resounds fuller somehow, well senced, not well worded.
Ya these speakers are a good balance all in all, lacking in someways but thats as each driver no matter how 'perfect' is its own flavor and color bassed on size n material.
Crude acoustical pumps..
So when im next on wifi, i fancy uploadin/sharing my database of build pics, i employed some good techniques, and it was selfish n lazy of my youngerself not to share with other sound loving peoples.
Your right, my speakers would probably have sounded crap without that xover design.
Lookin back at how i built these, i would say it was a mixture of good intuition and luck.
Still, sounding lovely. Currently all piled in a mono stack oweing to temporary space shortage.
They marry very well indeed to my tapped horn i built with some old username a few years prior.
...am trying desperately to find the build thread.. Well u know my lower tunin ting i had a ting for... Well its a Eminence Definimax 4012HO simmed to 25hz, simuler to a 30hz horn made by someone else at the time, only longer, pretty sure it was in the collaborative tapped horn project thread.
Oh yer, and for the tapped horn v br debate..
The two 10inch seas drivers in my vented cabs don't do much compared to the horn in the 22-40hz sorta range. They can produce the notes, just the sub horn bass sounds more 'real' somehow. Well its prettymuch a wide bandwidth organ pipe. Just sorta resounds fuller somehow, well senced, not well worded.
Ya these speakers are a good balance all in all, lacking in someways but thats as each driver no matter how 'perfect' is its own flavor and color bassed on size n material.
Crude acoustical pumps..
So when im next on wifi, i fancy uploadin/sharing my database of build pics, i employed some good techniques, and it was selfish n lazy of my youngerself not to share with other sound loving peoples.
Na, I definitely ain't no Einstein! I decided to go with Troel's 3 way classic for my center channel because I read that center channels should also be vertical - and to match my Seas front towers. I used mostly Mundorf Evo Oil and Clarity ESA caps. The carpenter is still working on the cabinet, but I actually think it might sound better than the Seas towers!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vJl2ZS3AHY
My neighbor friend video'd this using an old Sony pocket camera, so vid and audio quality isn't the best.
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