Hi,
I finally have time and funds to start completing my
HiFi, and speakers are first part I want to get done.
I have a budget of about 2000 euro for speakers. While I do realize this isn't much in HiFi world, I hope I can get a decent result at this budget.
My listening room is 4.5x5m, I mostly listen jazz, soul, and pop music.
So I'm thinking about 3 way speakers (floorstander or big stand on).
I have average woodworking skills, some experience in diy electronics and a very good equipped workshop, but my experience in speaker designing is poor.
So I'm asking you, is diy a good idea for me or shoud I go with some commercial solution?
Ps, I was thinking about some of the Gravesen projects, they seem to be very detailed and with little-to-none tweaking required.
Thanks
I finally have time and funds to start completing my
HiFi, and speakers are first part I want to get done.
I have a budget of about 2000 euro for speakers. While I do realize this isn't much in HiFi world, I hope I can get a decent result at this budget.
My listening room is 4.5x5m, I mostly listen jazz, soul, and pop music.
So I'm thinking about 3 way speakers (floorstander or big stand on).
I have average woodworking skills, some experience in diy electronics and a very good equipped workshop, but my experience in speaker designing is poor.
So I'm asking you, is diy a good idea for me or shoud I go with some commercial solution?
Ps, I was thinking about some of the Gravesen projects, they seem to be very detailed and with little-to-none tweaking required.
Thanks
You really ask this on a DIY forum? 🙂
Seriously, if you don't want dive deep into speaker measurements and their (electro)acoustical relationships, go for a kit like T.G. offers or something like this.
Seriously, if you don't want dive deep into speaker measurements and their (electro)acoustical relationships, go for a kit like T.G. offers or something like this.
If you can build a speaker box well enough, a DIY kit should be no problem.
But don't try to do the crossover design yourself.
But don't try to do the crossover design yourself.
Sure, why not? As long as you stick to a tried and tested design rather than trying to design your own loudspeaker, you are likely to end up with a better price-performance ratio than when you buy a commercial product.
Fellow country man,
I'd split the budget and buy a commercial loudspeaker (perhaps Wharfedale Linton Heritage) and the rest could be invested in a loudspeaker kit. Good news is that nothing is lost even if it looked like it was, if you know how to modify stuff to accomodate to your taste or simply wish to make changes in any possible direction.
Merry Christmas and a successful DIY-ing!
I'd split the budget and buy a commercial loudspeaker (perhaps Wharfedale Linton Heritage) and the rest could be invested in a loudspeaker kit. Good news is that nothing is lost even if it looked like it was, if you know how to modify stuff to accomodate to your taste or simply wish to make changes in any possible direction.
Merry Christmas and a successful DIY-ing!
I was probably little clumsy in presenting my question but that's due to my english language skills.
My main concern is about my budget. I know there are some budget points where diy isn't cost effective, for example in 400 euro range (that's what my current bookshelf speakers cost, and yes, they arr c**p) . Is 2000 a good budget to go diy route?
Ps, Yes I know we are on diy forum and I'm not against doing things myself, I diyed stuff from amps, DACs, complete refitting of my fiberglass boat including hull work, to luxury kitchen and modern steel fence around my house...
But let's forget that for the moment and be as realistic as a diyaudio member can be😀
Building speakers takes time and effort, with questionable results if you lack in knowledge.
My main concern is about my budget. I know there are some budget points where diy isn't cost effective, for example in 400 euro range (that's what my current bookshelf speakers cost, and yes, they arr c**p) . Is 2000 a good budget to go diy route?
Ps, Yes I know we are on diy forum and I'm not against doing things myself, I diyed stuff from amps, DACs, complete refitting of my fiberglass boat including hull work, to luxury kitchen and modern steel fence around my house...
But let's forget that for the moment and be as realistic as a diyaudio member can be😀
Building speakers takes time and effort, with questionable results if you lack in knowledge.
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look at troels gravensen site, DIY-Loudspeakers
Larger 3-way floor-standers
I built 2 speakers from that class, your budget is good enough for Jenzen Seas ER. You'll be surprised.
I am also from Croatia...
Larger 3-way floor-standers
I built 2 speakers from that class, your budget is good enough for Jenzen Seas ER. You'll be surprised.
I am also from Croatia...
I spent a lot of time considering before i built TG Fusion, i have woodworking skills and some soldering. TG does the rest, read everything you can, then email the same question to him, telling him what you wish to achieve, he wont chose a speaker for you but will give lots of objective advice. imho opinion his work and advice is excellent, but read it very carefully, there is lots in it and its easy to miss it first time round, take your time, but i would trust his work as a great way to do your first speaker project. These were my third. mike, you will find my Fusion BAD on his pages of builders
400 EUR is enough to do a a very decent speaker like Zaph SR71.
Second - you want DIY route due to cost/performance ratio or fun? If the first, please remember that for that amount there is plenty of used speakers to chose costing at listed price twice of your budget.
And companies making commercial speakers are not sitting and buying cheap Chinese stuff and packing it into fancy case only. In many cases there is a lot of engineering there, they are using drivers from seas/scan speak/ Eton but branded as their own or they simply produce their own drivers.
Please take in mind that DIY is route into unknown and you may be happy or unhappy with the result, and more often than not you will loose a lot of money, especially those spend on cabinets and crossover.
Of you will get bored with commercial speaker you just sell them.
There are lots of designers, kits, choices, and so on. But within your budget you can buy an almost hi-end commercial speakers as well.
I do not want to discourage you, but it's all trade-off of our motivation, goals, money and readiness for failure.
If your most important goal is to have good speakers pleasing your ears than I would stick to used commercial speakers. If fun and want to do DIY than go that way. Please also take in mind, that you will need extremely well designed and build amplifier worth thousands of dollars, to hear significant sonic improvement between speakers costing 5k new 10k new and your 2k DIY. It will be mostly taste variance than quality, as it is already very high level of speaker building.
Second - you want DIY route due to cost/performance ratio or fun? If the first, please remember that for that amount there is plenty of used speakers to chose costing at listed price twice of your budget.
And companies making commercial speakers are not sitting and buying cheap Chinese stuff and packing it into fancy case only. In many cases there is a lot of engineering there, they are using drivers from seas/scan speak/ Eton but branded as their own or they simply produce their own drivers.
Please take in mind that DIY is route into unknown and you may be happy or unhappy with the result, and more often than not you will loose a lot of money, especially those spend on cabinets and crossover.
Of you will get bored with commercial speaker you just sell them.
There are lots of designers, kits, choices, and so on. But within your budget you can buy an almost hi-end commercial speakers as well.
I do not want to discourage you, but it's all trade-off of our motivation, goals, money and readiness for failure.
If your most important goal is to have good speakers pleasing your ears than I would stick to used commercial speakers. If fun and want to do DIY than go that way. Please also take in mind, that you will need extremely well designed and build amplifier worth thousands of dollars, to hear significant sonic improvement between speakers costing 5k new 10k new and your 2k DIY. It will be mostly taste variance than quality, as it is already very high level of speaker building.
Until 1 April 2020, there used to be a shop (called Speaker & Co) in my hometown where you could listen to loudspeakers and then buy a kit to build the one you liked best yourself. If there is anything like that in Croatia and if the COVID-19 restrictions allow it, you might want to pay them a visit.
Hi,
Your main goal is to have the best you can into your max budget.
At this point you have two solutions imho : second hand or already designed DIY kit (T. Gravsen, etc).
At this point, We would know what do you have in the rest of your hifi chain (dac, amp) and how sized the listening room.
You have very good second hand speakers todays that people gives up cause they want the last hype.
Provided you choose a proved, properly designed project, DIY should give you a better sounding speaker dollar for dollar (or Euro for Euro) than commercial. The main issues with DIY to me include:
the finish and appearance (that is, Spouse Approval Factor);
you can't audition the speakers, so you have to rely on honest reviews by the designer and people who have built them;
questionable resale value, compared to retail products; and
a second hand pair of retail speakers can be a viable option.
Dealing with these in turn, DIY speakers can look great if you can invest the time and/or know a good cabinet maker. And you don't have to have black!
Auditioning retail speakers can be hit and miss unless you can get a trial period in home; most hi-fi stores here (Oz) don't let you do that so you won't know how they will sound in your home anyway.
As far as I can tell from various auction and hifi hobby sites, DIY won't have anywhere the same resale as retail, so you have to weigh that up against the initial cost saving. S/h speakers can be a good option as long as they work properly and you can get spare parts.
A further advantage of DIY is that the components, especially in the crossover, can be much higher quality than can be found in even some expensive retail speakers.
The mark-ups on retail can be astonishing if you just look at the raw cost of the components: for example, there's a pair of speakers here which sell for A$5000 - but the drivers look to be well known, off the shelf units which cost $400 at most. That's a simplistic argument which ignores the commercial realities of research, design, overheads, distribution etc but it's still worth thinking about.
You could build a great design for less than your budget and use the change to buy more music.
Geoff
the finish and appearance (that is, Spouse Approval Factor);
you can't audition the speakers, so you have to rely on honest reviews by the designer and people who have built them;
questionable resale value, compared to retail products; and
a second hand pair of retail speakers can be a viable option.
Dealing with these in turn, DIY speakers can look great if you can invest the time and/or know a good cabinet maker. And you don't have to have black!
Auditioning retail speakers can be hit and miss unless you can get a trial period in home; most hi-fi stores here (Oz) don't let you do that so you won't know how they will sound in your home anyway.
As far as I can tell from various auction and hifi hobby sites, DIY won't have anywhere the same resale as retail, so you have to weigh that up against the initial cost saving. S/h speakers can be a good option as long as they work properly and you can get spare parts.
A further advantage of DIY is that the components, especially in the crossover, can be much higher quality than can be found in even some expensive retail speakers.
The mark-ups on retail can be astonishing if you just look at the raw cost of the components: for example, there's a pair of speakers here which sell for A$5000 - but the drivers look to be well known, off the shelf units which cost $400 at most. That's a simplistic argument which ignores the commercial realities of research, design, overheads, distribution etc but it's still worth thinking about.
You could build a great design for less than your budget and use the change to buy more music.
Geoff
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Whell you can go a little crazy and make some sort of hybrid design.
For about 2000euro you can buy ;
Hypex FA252 (2 channel amplifier with DSP)
SBacoustics Satori beryllium twetter
SBacoustics Satori MW16P
And some subwoofer
And build nice 3way
You can use passive crossover in be twin tweeter and mid bass. Something like ARA/ARA BE from SBacoustics web page or Kalasan (which I like more then Kairos...but its more personal choice)
That combination would be driven by one channel of FA252.
The other channel will drive subwoofer.
The crossover be twin sub and midbass/tweeter combination will be set via DSP inside FA252.
Via DSP you can set linkwitz transform to bust lower frequencies if you go with closed design.
You will get nice sounding, active loudspeakers, so you will not need to additional amplifiers, cabels...but you will need a source with volume control...or you will have to add one on hypex FA252...
This mide sound a little over your head but its not 😉
Or you can stick with some kit from web. But what do I know...I'm just a noob just like you 🙂
Diy loudspeakers SBacoustics satori beryllium + satori 16P + peerless XLS10 - YouTube
For about 2000euro you can buy ;
Hypex FA252 (2 channel amplifier with DSP)
SBacoustics Satori beryllium twetter
SBacoustics Satori MW16P
And some subwoofer
And build nice 3way
You can use passive crossover in be twin tweeter and mid bass. Something like ARA/ARA BE from SBacoustics web page or Kalasan (which I like more then Kairos...but its more personal choice)
That combination would be driven by one channel of FA252.
The other channel will drive subwoofer.
The crossover be twin sub and midbass/tweeter combination will be set via DSP inside FA252.
Via DSP you can set linkwitz transform to bust lower frequencies if you go with closed design.
You will get nice sounding, active loudspeakers, so you will not need to additional amplifiers, cabels...but you will need a source with volume control...or you will have to add one on hypex FA252...
This mide sound a little over your head but its not 😉
Or you can stick with some kit from web. But what do I know...I'm just a noob just like you 🙂
Diy loudspeakers SBacoustics satori beryllium + satori 16P + peerless XLS10 - YouTube
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You cd choose a design based on certain drivers then calculate the box needed using speaker box lite, draw it up and ask a professional to design the crossover. Tony Gee perhaps
My thoughts on a good 3 way driver choice wd be
Satori wo24p-4 for bass duties, satori mr13p-4 for mid duties and viawave ribbon(grt145 waveguide). Driver cost around £1100. Set the bass driver fairly low on baffle, crossover points around 325hz and 2500hz
Drivers are easy to work with.
My thoughts on a good 3 way driver choice wd be
Satori wo24p-4 for bass duties, satori mr13p-4 for mid duties and viawave ribbon(grt145 waveguide). Driver cost around £1100. Set the bass driver fairly low on baffle, crossover points around 325hz and 2500hz
Drivers are easy to work with.
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^Unfortunately, making good loudspeakers is not as easy as this. Randomly licking some "nice" drivers and sticking them in a box will most likely go wrong.
If you are new to DIY loudspeakers, it is recommended to go with a proven design. Choose a design that fits your needs from the beginning. Avoid changing the basics of an existing design (different/"better" drivers, different xover, different baffle geometry, etc.).
If you are new to DIY loudspeakers, it is recommended to go with a proven design. Choose a design that fits your needs from the beginning. Avoid changing the basics of an existing design (different/"better" drivers, different xover, different baffle geometry, etc.).
Any budget is a good budget. The budget is just one of the requirement parameters that you need to set before choosing the right speaker design.
That said, any given loudspeaker design can be implemented at very different "cost levels". Apart from the fixed the costs for the drivers, you can choose to build a basic MDF box, or go fancy with nice/expensive materials. You can choose cost-efficient but good quality xover parts vs. expensive high-end parts. Etc.
For example, the parts for an Open Source Monkey Coffin are about 1500 Euro. You could invest the extra 500 for nicer box materials, higher quality xover parts, and a pretty stand.
A commercial / non-DIY speaker of a similar quality level would easily cost 10000 Euro (if not more).
Many of the super- high-end loudspeakers you can look at in hifi stores and magazines are made from parts that cost considerably less than your budget.