Isn’t the budget for the OSMC 1500 Euro per speaker, I think in the original post the budget for the OP is 2000 Euro for both speakers?
Hi Bobe,
Since you've been given enough DIY websites and suggestions, i'll try to give you few factory solutions that may satisfy your needs.
All of them measure well enough to be considered well engineered but measurement by itself will tell you just that. Will it sound good for you, you have to listen to yourself or search for detailed subjective impressions of others.
Kef R3
HiVi 3.1 DIY speaker kit
Genelec 8030C
Buchardt S400
Adam T5V
I've ranked them per my preference and ability to play loud, but none of them will leave you hungry for sound. None of them cost over 2000 euros per pair, most of them are much cheaper that that. Some of them are active, some are passive speakers. I'm almost always for DIY but if you don't have space or tools to do it there are few decent solutions that are readily available.
All the best in your quest for speakers.
Srećan Božić
Since you've been given enough DIY websites and suggestions, i'll try to give you few factory solutions that may satisfy your needs.
All of them measure well enough to be considered well engineered but measurement by itself will tell you just that. Will it sound good for you, you have to listen to yourself or search for detailed subjective impressions of others.
Kef R3
HiVi 3.1 DIY speaker kit
Genelec 8030C
Buchardt S400
Adam T5V
I've ranked them per my preference and ability to play loud, but none of them will leave you hungry for sound. None of them cost over 2000 euros per pair, most of them are much cheaper that that. Some of them are active, some are passive speakers. I'm almost always for DIY but if you don't have space or tools to do it there are few decent solutions that are readily available.
All the best in your quest for speakers.
Srećan Božić
Thanks for all of you trying to help. I don't have to spend my whole budget, but Gravesens projects tend to be on expensive side. I would choose one of his projects, don't know which one yet, but they are very well documented and highly respected.
I'm afraid OSMB would be too much wide and bulky for my room.
as for DiY vs retail vs 2nd hand, I have yet to find a retail speakers at this budget that will sound the way I like. Actually only few speakers sounded great to me and all of them were waaay out of my budget. Example: Franco Serblin Accordo Essence at 13,ooo euro.
Unfortunately listening before buying isn't possible more often than it is, I live in a rural part of my country, so buying 2nd hand would be same gamble as DiY.
I'm afraid OSMB would be too much wide and bulky for my room.
as for DiY vs retail vs 2nd hand, I have yet to find a retail speakers at this budget that will sound the way I like. Actually only few speakers sounded great to me and all of them were waaay out of my budget. Example: Franco Serblin Accordo Essence at 13,ooo euro.
Unfortunately listening before buying isn't possible more often than it is, I live in a rural part of my country, so buying 2nd hand would be same gamble as DiY.
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Personally I wouldn't bother going DIY. For that kind of money you could get some very good quality speakers second hand. Certainly ones that are going to be far better than you could DIY without having proper anechoic measureing facilities etc to be able to get the crossover done properly.
If you really do feel like building something, i would go for a well respected and liked fully designed DIY speaker kit. Even then you have to understand that nearly all of them are "tuned" by ear to the likes of the builder. They are rarely actually measured properly under the correct conditions.
Personally, only time I would DIY speakers is if I was looking for a simple 2 way speaker cheap. It's quite easy to build speakers that are better than commercial speakers that are sold up to a few hundred Euros, but in my opinion once you get in to more complex speakers and more expensive commercial (say over 1,000 euros) you're going to struggle to do as well as speakers from the best manufacturers (Dynaudio, PMC, KEFF etc)
If you really do feel like building something, i would go for a well respected and liked fully designed DIY speaker kit. Even then you have to understand that nearly all of them are "tuned" by ear to the likes of the builder. They are rarely actually measured properly under the correct conditions.
Personally, only time I would DIY speakers is if I was looking for a simple 2 way speaker cheap. It's quite easy to build speakers that are better than commercial speakers that are sold up to a few hundred Euros, but in my opinion once you get in to more complex speakers and more expensive commercial (say over 1,000 euros) you're going to struggle to do as well as speakers from the best manufacturers (Dynaudio, PMC, KEFF etc)
Ironically, the speakers you list are what I would call an example of a RIP off speaker. I'm no fan of many audiophile speaker manufacturers who basically just take off the shelf drive units from the likes of SEAS or Scanspeak etc and put them in large very expensive cabinets (often over engineered for not real benefit, but look great on the eye). Very often speakers from such manufacturers don't actually measure that great and are often tuned to a particular characteristic sound, so it doesn't surprise me that you can't find other cheapers speakers that you like as usually speakers in the price range you're looking at are designed to at least attempt to be "accurate".
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That Franco speaker looks like it uses a Scanspeak Revelator 15m and 18w mid/woofers and I suspect the tweeter is a D2904/950000. So this gives you some idea of the mark up on speakers (roughly 10-20% of the cost of a commercial speaker is drivers and crossover).
Accordo Essence - Franco Serblin's loudspeaker
The Troels Gravesen Etta Mk2 should be pretty close and uses a woofer and mid in the illuminated range which is above the Revelator range used in the Franco.
At 1700euro for the kit from Jantzen this leaves just about enough for wood. Note this is a closed design so you have to buy the kit from Jantzen to get the right crossover values. Looks like a candidate to me.
EKTA-mkII
Ekta mkII - Jantzen-audio.com
Accordo Essence - Franco Serblin's loudspeaker
The Troels Gravesen Etta Mk2 should be pretty close and uses a woofer and mid in the illuminated range which is above the Revelator range used in the Franco.
At 1700euro for the kit from Jantzen this leaves just about enough for wood. Note this is a closed design so you have to buy the kit from Jantzen to get the right crossover values. Looks like a candidate to me.
EKTA-mkII
Ekta mkII - Jantzen-audio.com
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Well accordo isn't perfect but I liked it very much for vocals, acoustic guitars, xylophone, and acoustic recordings generaly. It lacks bass little bit, but overall it's probably best speaker I heard. I don't have experience with many high end speakers but I can tell it sounds beter than Focal aria.
Yes, Ekta mk2 is among my top choices so far, even better it's a closed design available as complete kit, I don't have to spend days and weeks searching and ordering parts from all over the world.
Yes, Ekta mk2 is among my top choices so far, even better it's a closed design available as complete kit, I don't have to spend days and weeks searching and ordering parts from all over the world.
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You're going to need a very good quality amplifier to drive those speakers, they drop to 3 ohms which is lower than most amplifiers below a couple of thousand Euros will be able to drive properly.
Also to be a bit blunt. It's another example of a DIY kit that hasn't actually been measured. At least all I can see as far as measurements are concerned are some frequency response curves off the driver manufacturer site being put in to speaker design software. Not any actual real in room or anechoic measurements (you will never get that flat low end response in a room!)
Also to be a bit blunt. It's another example of a DIY kit that hasn't actually been measured. At least all I can see as far as measurements are concerned are some frequency response curves off the driver manufacturer site being put in to speaker design software. Not any actual real in room or anechoic measurements (you will never get that flat low end response in a room!)
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What you really need to do is listen to speakers from a large range of manufacturers in your price range. Most of the manufacturers have a house sound to some degree i'd be surprised if you couldnt find one with the vocal range quality you like. KEFF, Monitor Audio, PMC, Dynaudio, B&W for example all sound significantly different from each other in general.
I accept that in the current situation that's not going to be possible, but if I were looking to spend the kind of money you're talking about I'd be waiting till it was possible to make sure i didnt waste my money.
Sure, that is why I started this thread, to hear different opinions from more experienced people. I'm not in hurry, have to deal with acoustic treatment of my listening room first.
I have a budget for amplifier similar as for speakers but I'm intentionally waiting with that purchase. My current amp is cheap Onkyo but I can borrofwfew nice amps for testing the speakers.
I have a budget for amplifier similar as for speakers but I'm intentionally waiting with that purchase. My current amp is cheap Onkyo but I can borrofwfew nice amps for testing the speakers.
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It can always be a little difficult. Cause you preference can change over time. At first I wanted something different. But then I grew happy with more controlled sound, like even dispersion and more clean and neutral sound. This moved all B&W speakers out the way for me... most PMC too.
I like DIY like the ones I linked too... cause there is less BS and more data to support great value and good performance.
My current speakers a bit like the one ones I linked too.... especially the tweeter/midrange arrangement. And to my likings... this is the way most speakers I like - are build 🙂
This is a great example to illustrate my previous point:
- Tweeter: Scan 9300/9500/9700: 85 to 150 Euro
- Mid: Scan 15M (?), slotted paper: 170 Euro
- Woofer: Scan 18M (?), slotted paper: 180 Euro
- xover (just a guesstimate for parts cost): 150 Euro
- flashy "phase plug" for the mid: 20 cent
Total: 650 Euro for drivers and xover
(oups, I forgot to factor in the funny phase plug 😉)
A 2000 Euro budget leaves a lot for the box and small parts. The 13'000 Euro price tag includes the development, marketing, salaries and other stuff required to run a company.
Apart from the money argument, you can choose exactly how your speakers will look in the end. Don't like that Italian Franco Serblin leather stuff? Use whatever you like.
In my opinion, speakers are where DIY makes most sense. Other electronics things (amps, DACs, etc.) do not provide the same level of cost saving and customisation.
Troels designs are certainly good. If you want to look at some other good designs, take a look here: A.O.S. Audio Systeme
The TL42 might fit your bill (a much better speaker than the Serblin, and a lot less expensive): STUDIO S42 TL, Transmission Line, passiv – A.O.S. Audio Systeme
Finally, one important question to consider: what amp(s) do you have? A small tube amp or Amp Camp Amp or similar will need a different speaker than a big / strong amp.
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Thanks, that explains a lot and this speakers look interesting too.
I don't have an amp for new upcoming speakers, only have a cheap Onkyo amp from my current setup.
My budget for amp will be pretty much the same as for the speakers.
I don't have an amp for new upcoming speakers, only have a cheap Onkyo amp from my current setup.
My budget for amp will be pretty much the same as for the speakers.
Wouldn't it be awesome if someone decided to DIY Franco's Accordo Essence loudspeaker, with an improvement over it like employing a more capable bass drive unit? That would have made one oustanding loudspeaker, a keeper for sure.
In the branded Loudspeakers I would add the excellent Q/P : SVS ! At 2000 euros I believe you can get the floorstanding one !
One talked about the Kef R3 as well second hand... can go wrong with it either.
One talked about the Kef R3 as well second hand... can go wrong with it either.
Interesting... in my opinion, the woofer is what I like most about this speaker. The tweeter and midrange drivers are okay, but nothing special.
Did someone say you need an Anechoic chamber in order to produce a top notch system via DIY? lmao what the heck are you doing?... building the drivers from scratch and want to test the resonance of your new space age diaphragm material? lol!
Not in this thread, as far as I can tell. There were some mentions about anechoic measurements, but not about anechoic chambers. That's a huge difference! Designing a loudspeaker from scratch is a challenge, and doing it without any means for getting anechoic measurements will be a suicide mission (assuming the aim is to design a good loudspeaker).
However, let's not get too far off-topic. The OP didn't ask for "designing from scratch". Building a tried and tested design should not require any measurements at all (although a DVM may be handy for basic testing of an xover build and stuff).
Because you are replacing your amplifiers and your speakers at the same time, this is a good opportunity to consider an active speaker setup.
I was in your shoes 2 years ago, and I designed an active system built around the Hypex Fusion nCore amplifiers.
New active 3-Way, Hypex and SB
You may find some inspiration from my efforts. My total cost for all drivers, cabinet materials, and amplifiers was about $2600.
I was in your shoes 2 years ago, and I designed an active system built around the Hypex Fusion nCore amplifiers.
New active 3-Way, Hypex and SB
You may find some inspiration from my efforts. My total cost for all drivers, cabinet materials, and amplifiers was about $2600.