so i haven't built anything in a long while last thing i built was a slightly modded pair of zaph zrt 2.5's several years back, life got busy and hobbies went on hold.
Anyway sob story over. I have had several drivers kicking around that i picked up on various sales that i intended using for projects that i never got round to. I'm thinking rather than just sell them i could probably knock out a half decent pair of garage/party speakers. I'm thinking largish cabinets somewhat vintage jbl, vega looks 3 way.
i started working on a crossover but i cant get it to play nice across the whole range.
not sure if anyone would mind having a crack at helping me find a half decent starting point, i have built several successful 2 way designs but this 3 way is kicking my butt.
I'm not aiming for perfection here just a good all rounder for knocking the tunes out in the garage and getting the wife off my back by freeing up some closet space.
I have a feeling the xt25bg60's wont be ideal in an off axis listening environment like a garage but i don't really want to throw a bunch of money into different drivers.
drivers i have
2x Peerless NE265W-08 10inch
2x Peerless TPY05W08O0088 5-1/4inch
2x Peerless XT25BG60-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter
i also have a pair of focal/jmlab t98ti tweeters that may work but i can't find any data on them.
i have been using Jeff Bagby's passive crossover designer but i cant seem to get it to save the data out properly to share but i have attached the spec sheets, zma and frd files i made from the spec sheets. i dropped it all in my google drive including the xls it just wont load up properly on another computer for some reason or other.
classic 3 way - Google Drive
Anyway sob story over. I have had several drivers kicking around that i picked up on various sales that i intended using for projects that i never got round to. I'm thinking rather than just sell them i could probably knock out a half decent pair of garage/party speakers. I'm thinking largish cabinets somewhat vintage jbl, vega looks 3 way.
i started working on a crossover but i cant get it to play nice across the whole range.
not sure if anyone would mind having a crack at helping me find a half decent starting point, i have built several successful 2 way designs but this 3 way is kicking my butt.
I'm not aiming for perfection here just a good all rounder for knocking the tunes out in the garage and getting the wife off my back by freeing up some closet space.
I have a feeling the xt25bg60's wont be ideal in an off axis listening environment like a garage but i don't really want to throw a bunch of money into different drivers.
drivers i have
2x Peerless NE265W-08 10inch
2x Peerless TPY05W08O0088 5-1/4inch
2x Peerless XT25BG60-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter
i also have a pair of focal/jmlab t98ti tweeters that may work but i can't find any data on them.
i have been using Jeff Bagby's passive crossover designer but i cant seem to get it to save the data out properly to share but i have attached the spec sheets, zma and frd files i made from the spec sheets. i dropped it all in my google drive including the xls it just wont load up properly on another computer for some reason or other.
classic 3 way - Google Drive
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PCD seems to work best on earlier versions of Excel. Someone recently considered maintaining the spreadsheet but I haven't heard of any results. Thought it might be worth mentioning it from time to time.
If you are using manufacturer responses, at the least do something about including the basic baffle effects.
If you are using manufacturer responses, at the least do something about including the basic baffle effects.
i haven't got that far yet. i think you might be correct i'm starting to wonder if its my version of excel that's the issue. All i have is the 365 version and its smart enough to keep updating itself. it was always a little fussy about how you save your project but i don't recall having issues with it in the past on my old computer but that's long gone.
is there any other good alternatives that work well independent from excell? its been a while since i looked at whats available.
is there any other good alternatives that work well independent from excell? its been a while since i looked at whats available.
The latest PCD was released in 2019, by Jeff himself and at that time, the latest version of Excel works with it. It should be viable for at least some time.
Later,
Wolf
Later,
Wolf
the problem with that combo of drivers is that the woofers are only 85dB sensitive, and will struggle to keep up with the mid & tweeter. And they have a peak around 5Khz which will need a notch.
First: the 10" and 1" drivers are known to be excellent units, the 5,25" will perform agreeably well.
Second: designing a 3-way, even a classic one like this is no piece of cake and virtually leads nowhere if you cannot measure the acoustic output of the drivers in the desired enclosure. Plus measuring the impedance is essential for passive crossovers. Get a microphone/interface and learn to use REW or ARTA.
Third: A simulation app like Vituixcad, Boxsim or Xsim, which will let you import your own measurements of both complex acoustic output and electrical impedance (complex as in: phase info included) and after that you can experiment all you like without buying a ton's worth of crossover components.
To give a sense of direction: aim for crossover points at 300Hz and 2500Hz. Any worries about the nominal efficiency are preliminary for now. I do not see a reason why this combo couldn't come out as a very good speaker. But it's no easy work.
Second: designing a 3-way, even a classic one like this is no piece of cake and virtually leads nowhere if you cannot measure the acoustic output of the drivers in the desired enclosure. Plus measuring the impedance is essential for passive crossovers. Get a microphone/interface and learn to use REW or ARTA.
Third: A simulation app like Vituixcad, Boxsim or Xsim, which will let you import your own measurements of both complex acoustic output and electrical impedance (complex as in: phase info included) and after that you can experiment all you like without buying a ton's worth of crossover components.
To give a sense of direction: aim for crossover points at 300Hz and 2500Hz. Any worries about the nominal efficiency are preliminary for now. I do not see a reason why this combo couldn't come out as a very good speaker. But it's no easy work.
It might help if you give us an idea of the cabinet dimensions you were thinking off. And perhaps whether you intend to place the speakers out from the walls or if they will go right up against a rear wall.
Thanks for all the replies.
OK i wasn't very clear. i was just messing around to see if the drivers even have a chance of working together, i didn't want to go to the trouble of building an enclosure if they had no chance of working together, but even that wasn't working out.
I plan to build a box somewhere in the 45-60L range, whatever works best for the application. i'd like to get down into the high 30's to low 40s tuning wise if i can. Size isn't really an issue but i don't want to go mega large, price of wood isn't favorable at the moment lol.
i have dayton umm-6 measurement mic & rew on a laptop. last time i used it was to tweak the crossover on the zrt's so i will probably have to read the manual again.
placement 1-2ft off the back wall 3-4ft from the side walls. ideally ported to the front
OK i wasn't very clear. i was just messing around to see if the drivers even have a chance of working together, i didn't want to go to the trouble of building an enclosure if they had no chance of working together, but even that wasn't working out.
I plan to build a box somewhere in the 45-60L range, whatever works best for the application. i'd like to get down into the high 30's to low 40s tuning wise if i can. Size isn't really an issue but i don't want to go mega large, price of wood isn't favorable at the moment lol.
i have dayton umm-6 measurement mic & rew on a laptop. last time i used it was to tweak the crossover on the zrt's so i will probably have to read the manual again.
placement 1-2ft off the back wall 3-4ft from the side walls. ideally ported to the front
Hmmm, what about doing these as actives with a 2-way plate amp. You would use a passive crossover between the mid and tweeter, and then hammer the crap out of the FR with an EQ.
I think those tweets may be too nice for a garage speaker, use the Focals. Better dispersion and more treble attack.
I think those tweets may be too nice for a garage speaker, use the Focals. Better dispersion and more treble attack.
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This suggestion may be the long way around for you but I have the tools already on the shelf so I'll describe my procedure. I don't have too much occasion to build passive networks but when I do I use a DSP crossover to establish the response I want from the speaker in question, measure the outputs of the DSP with Smaart or Foo and then match those curves with the crossover model software du jour. X Sim is my current favorite for that part.
That's similar to how I've been working, starting with DSP to get the desired responses and then designing the passive crossover in Soundeasy to match. Sometimes I feel I end up with a more complex passive circuit with this approach though. Some response curves that are fairly simple to accomplish actively can require more components to match from a passive xover. I've just accepted that so far. It would be nice to have something that would generate an active filter from a passive crossover sim that could be quickly evaluted so that establishing the response based on a passive design were a little more direct. Kind of a virtual passive crossover simulator in DSP is what I'm thinking of. Does something like that already exist? I thought Soundeasy could do it, and maybe it can, but I haven't spent the time to try to figure it out yet.
Dan
Dan
Will the speakers be placed in a corner / up against the wall in the garage? or do we need to allow for bafflestep compensation? Ripple / diffraction is less important.
@ dave it was in my previous response
Placement 1-2ft off the back wall 3-4ft from the side walls. ideally ported to the front
funny you should mention using a dsp to work out the crossover. i did think about that, i don't have anything home audio based but i do have a Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.3 8 channel DSP in the car but im not sure i wanna pull the car system apart as i have it dialed in pretty well.
i do have an f5turbo V3 kicking around that i built so wasn't really thinking about throwing money at amps
thinking about it though, a plate amp with built in dsp maybe even bluetooth/wifi/dac would be a nice idea in the garage, its not like im going for the ultimate in sound reproduction, they just need to be fun happy to sing and dance along to kinda speakers. Anyone know some good options? wattage wise i like to have headroom and most of these things are chip amps so that could be an issue. now im wondering if parts express has anything suitable now.
Placement 1-2ft off the back wall 3-4ft from the side walls. ideally ported to the front
funny you should mention using a dsp to work out the crossover. i did think about that, i don't have anything home audio based but i do have a Rockford Fosgate 3Sixty.3 8 channel DSP in the car but im not sure i wanna pull the car system apart as i have it dialed in pretty well.
i do have an f5turbo V3 kicking around that i built so wasn't really thinking about throwing money at amps
thinking about it though, a plate amp with built in dsp maybe even bluetooth/wifi/dac would be a nice idea in the garage, its not like im going for the ultimate in sound reproduction, they just need to be fun happy to sing and dance along to kinda speakers. Anyone know some good options? wattage wise i like to have headroom and most of these things are chip amps so that could be an issue. now im wondering if parts express has anything suitable now.
Here's my attempt. Not perfect phase alignment but might give you a comparison with your own. Rename the .TXT = FRD if you want to use the same response curves (I applied an estimated baffle with step and diffraction).
Box is 41L vented for woofer, 15L sealed for midrange (I like large sealed midrange enclosures)
Target sensitivity ~ 82dB (allowing for 3dB BSC)
Woofer Fb = 30Hz with a 102mm diameter port at 557mm long (will require an elbow)
Baffle is ~650mm (H) * 314mm (W). Allowing for 10mm spacing between drivers and port. Depth to be calculated allowing for total volume (41L + 15L + port + bracing).
Driver Z offsets used = 90mm for NE265 and 26mm for TPY05, assumed tweeter design axis.
Xmax is reached at 160w input. with max port velocity at 18.6m/s (acceptable).
Box is 41L vented for woofer, 15L sealed for midrange (I like large sealed midrange enclosures)
Target sensitivity ~ 82dB (allowing for 3dB BSC)
Woofer Fb = 30Hz with a 102mm diameter port at 557mm long (will require an elbow)
Baffle is ~650mm (H) * 314mm (W). Allowing for 10mm spacing between drivers and port. Depth to be calculated allowing for total volume (41L + 15L + port + bracing).
Driver Z offsets used = 90mm for NE265 and 26mm for TPY05, assumed tweeter design axis.
Xmax is reached at 160w input. with max port velocity at 18.6m/s (acceptable).
