Hello everyone,
I'm looking to build a portable speaker. When I model Tang Band W3-2088SOF 3.5" Subwoofer through WinIsd Pro in 4.2l (.15 cu.ft) box tuned to 34Hz I get 30Hz -F3 point and roughly flat response with 89db SPL. Can this be true or manufacturer is cheating on specs and this modeling is completely false???
Please I need answers soon, only one subwoofer left in shop :/
Thank you very much !
I'm looking to build a portable speaker. When I model Tang Band W3-2088SOF 3.5" Subwoofer through WinIsd Pro in 4.2l (.15 cu.ft) box tuned to 34Hz I get 30Hz -F3 point and roughly flat response with 89db SPL. Can this be true or manufacturer is cheating on specs and this modeling is completely false???
Please I need answers soon, only one subwoofer left in shop :/
Thank you very much !
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi, sure the frequency response looks good, BUT, that's Not the whole story !
1 - I presume you didn't include a High Pass Filter ? Unless you do, Xmax will be exceeded for more than 5 Watts. I included a LR 24db HPF @ 24Hz which safely limits Xmax to just under it's limits for 25 W.
2 - If you look at the size of the port/s needed to acheive that response at that fb, you'll see it/they are Massive ! For eg, a 25 mm round port needs a length of 284 mm ! A wider port even longer. You wouldn't fit that port into that box, unless you folded it. Then you need to always add the volume of the port to the box size, plus the volume the driver etc takes up, to end up with the Net internal volume in WinISD etc. Could be done though.
I got the TB W3-2088S0F PDF from Parts Express, & it states that Vas = 2.1 Ltr. You have it as 1.98 ? Also fs = 45Hz yours = 43Hz ? Sd = 45.2 yours = 42.9 ?
I simmed with the PE specs, but yours won't be far off. My sim also - Net vol = 4.2 Ltrs. Fb = 34Hz
It is a Very good driver for such a size 🙂
The latest WinISD version is here http://www.linearteam.org/download/winisd-07x.exe
1 - I presume you didn't include a High Pass Filter ? Unless you do, Xmax will be exceeded for more than 5 Watts. I included a LR 24db HPF @ 24Hz which safely limits Xmax to just under it's limits for 25 W.
2 - If you look at the size of the port/s needed to acheive that response at that fb, you'll see it/they are Massive ! For eg, a 25 mm round port needs a length of 284 mm ! A wider port even longer. You wouldn't fit that port into that box, unless you folded it. Then you need to always add the volume of the port to the box size, plus the volume the driver etc takes up, to end up with the Net internal volume in WinISD etc. Could be done though.
I got the TB W3-2088S0F PDF from Parts Express, & it states that Vas = 2.1 Ltr. You have it as 1.98 ? Also fs = 45Hz yours = 43Hz ? Sd = 45.2 yours = 42.9 ?
I simmed with the PE specs, but yours won't be far off. My sim also - Net vol = 4.2 Ltrs. Fb = 34Hz
It is a Very good driver for such a size 🙂
The latest WinISD version is here http://www.linearteam.org/download/winisd-07x.exe
Attachments
Thanks, the specs I have are a little bit fixed, because fs is actually 43Hz instead of 45Hz when looking at impedance graph in PE page. I actually couldn't manage to get the same graph with PR but maybe I could use a peerless 3.5" passive radiator instead of a port. And also, where could I get 24db HPF for a reasonable price?
The peerless passive radiator likely won't be able to handle the excursion of that driver. PR is a better option for tuning such a small box so low, but the Peerless wont do it. Unfortunately I know of no PR that would, you need something custom.
If you can go with a larger PR that would reduce the problem some, a few exist that are in the 5" to 6" range that might work. You might also check for Chinese suppliers on Ebay. I've bought a few and they work well. The biggest problem is that you either guess at specs or attempt to measure yourself, which is not so easy to do. I've not used this driver with a PR, but I did use a small vifa 3" driver with a square PR I bought from a Chinese supplier, I found I could measure the tuning with my WT3 just fine and adjust as needed by gluing weights to the center. For such a small driver it worked fine.
This driver has quite a bit of excursion for its size which is why I worry that Peerless PR, which I have a few of, wont work out. Two of them would require far too much mass.
If you can go with a larger PR that would reduce the problem some, a few exist that are in the 5" to 6" range that might work. You might also check for Chinese suppliers on Ebay. I've bought a few and they work well. The biggest problem is that you either guess at specs or attempt to measure yourself, which is not so easy to do. I've not used this driver with a PR, but I did use a small vifa 3" driver with a square PR I bought from a Chinese supplier, I found I could measure the tuning with my WT3 just fine and adjust as needed by gluing weights to the center. For such a small driver it worked fine.
This driver has quite a bit of excursion for its size which is why I worry that Peerless PR, which I have a few of, wont work out. Two of them would require far too much mass.
@ Xappys
1 - Do you mean off a battery, and/or the mains ?
2 - If battery, what voltage ?
3 - What Amplifier/s are you going to use ?
4 - Stereo or mono ?
5 - Any other speakers connected, eg tweeter/s ?
I wouldn't use a passive radiator instead of a port.
It depends on # 2 above.
1 - Do you mean off a battery, and/or the mains ?
2 - If battery, what voltage ?
3 - What Amplifier/s are you going to use ?
4 - Stereo or mono ?
5 - Any other speakers connected, eg tweeter/s ?
I wouldn't use a passive radiator instead of a port.
It depends on # 2 above.
1. Off a battery
2. I think 4 x 18650 Panasonics in series so about 14.8 V
3. TPA3116 2.1 would suit me well, because I have one and it's sound is amazing for the price.
4. Stereo + sub (2.1)
5. As I said this woofer + two 2" 10w 8ohm speakers from sony dock
5.1 OR ....
W3-1876S 3" subwoofer + 2 x 20mm tweeters from ebay (flat to 2000Hz). Then sub would be tuned to about 54Hz and internal box volume would be 1.4l (approx. 1.2l all components excluded). This would be even more versatile for my situation and still give nice low end and highs (I assume this when looking at minirig setup using same W3-1876S subwoofer and outperforming JBL Xtreme easily).
2. I think 4 x 18650 Panasonics in series so about 14.8 V
3. TPA3116 2.1 would suit me well, because I have one and it's sound is amazing for the price.
4. Stereo + sub (2.1)
5. As I said this woofer + two 2" 10w 8ohm speakers from sony dock
5.1 OR ....
W3-1876S 3" subwoofer + 2 x 20mm tweeters from ebay (flat to 2000Hz). Then sub would be tuned to about 54Hz and internal box volume would be 1.4l (approx. 1.2l all components excluded). This would be even more versatile for my situation and still give nice low end and highs (I assume this when looking at minirig setup using same W3-1876S subwoofer and outperforming JBL Xtreme easily).
@ Xappys
Battery, OK. I think you meant, (flat to 20,000Hz) 😉
The 54Hz option sounds like a better one, as aiming for less means more Lf excursion & power ! Sim it & see what its like without a HPF. If it needs one, i would check out car audio places for one. But there i would expect you're more likely to find a 12V active Xover that includes a HPF. So all in one = 🙂
I suggest you download the tpa3116d2.pdf from TI, & study it carefully to ensure it meets your requirements.
Battery, OK. I think you meant, (flat to 20,000Hz) 😉
The 54Hz option sounds like a better one, as aiming for less means more Lf excursion & power ! Sim it & see what its like without a HPF. If it needs one, i would check out car audio places for one. But there i would expect you're more likely to find a 12V active Xover that includes a HPF. So all in one = 🙂
I suggest you download the tpa3116d2.pdf from TI, & study it carefully to ensure it meets your requirements.
It actually goes to 47Hz -F3 when modeling with port (screenshot added) but somehow I can't get it that deep with flat response using Peerless 3.5" PR (maybe I should give a try to chinese 7x8 cm rectangle PR's?).
I also upload woofer cone excursion graph.
P.S. I meant the tweeter is flat from 2000Hz upwards 🙂 sorry for my silly explanations.
P.S.S. Also, is 1/4" 5 ply Baltic Birch plywood enough for enclosure?
I also upload woofer cone excursion graph.
P.S. I meant the tweeter is flat from 2000Hz upwards 🙂 sorry for my silly explanations.
P.S.S. Also, is 1/4" 5 ply Baltic Birch plywood enough for enclosure?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
https://postimage.org/index.php?lang=english
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
https://postimage.org/index.php?lang=english
Portable as in 'differnt locations' or as in 'outside'? Either way, you won't be hearing much of the 30Hz since it's very dependent of the listening room and outside you won't be hearing anything of 30Hz at all! 30Hz is only included in very, VERY rare tracks anyway. I wouldn't go for it, especally with a such small speaker. I'd suggest to go for a slightly higher tuning and take instead of 30Hz a lot higher spl with a tuning at ~40-50Hz. Besides that, the lowcut/subsonic filter already suggested by Zero D helps a LOT.
Going a factor n deeper costs you a factor n^3 = 8 in sensitivity, for a given enclosure size. So if you increase the f3 from 30 to 90 Hz, your sensitivity can be 3^3 = 27 times as high (+14 dB).
1/4" plywood is fine for your application.
1/4" plywood is fine for your application.
Thank you all very much 🙂 ,
From your suggestions I will go for TB W3-1876S tuned to ≈49Hz and two tweeters, although I have fullranges (it will save me some enclosure space).
I'll start my project on 23th December and keep it updated here.
From your suggestions I will go for TB W3-1876S tuned to ≈49Hz and two tweeters, although I have fullranges (it will save me some enclosure space).
I'll start my project on 23th December and keep it updated here.
Thanks for the link to the newest WinISD!!!!
What does this latest version do that WinISD Pro Alpha doesn't?
@ dotneck335
Pleasure 🙂 Well, interesting ! I was only looking at the revision history very recently on either their homepage www or their facebook www which tells you. Not that i am or ever have been a member, or ever will be on fb 😛 Now for some unknown reason i can't find the latest info, even though it was there before ? If someone finds a link to it, please post it 😉
Anyway, the later versions are better in many ways, as you should soon discover 🙂
Pleasure 🙂 Well, interesting ! I was only looking at the revision history very recently on either their homepage www or their facebook www which tells you. Not that i am or ever have been a member, or ever will be on fb 😛 Now for some unknown reason i can't find the latest info, even though it was there before ? If someone finds a link to it, please post it 😉
Anyway, the later versions are better in many ways, as you should soon discover 🙂
Dunno, maybe this? Where I see there was an update on 10-29: https://www.facebook.com/pg/WinISD/posts/?ref=page_internal
Sure would be nice to have update notices like HR. Regardless, thanks for 'making' me look!
GM
Sure would be nice to have update notices like HR. Regardless, thanks for 'making' me look!
GM
I ran into some trouble again. Only part I am sure about is Tang Band W3-1876S subwoofer. I have two ways to go:
◘ make a portable subwoofer which I could connect to any portable speaker using aux to rca cable. Problems:
1) finding cheap, small and steep subsonic filter (simple 2nd order cuts my f3 point drastically). Sites I use include amazon.co.uk, ebay, oaudio and all the other chinese ones.
2) highpass filter - is it enough using second order passive filter from capacitor and resistor (cascaded)? what crossover point to blend nicely with any portable speaker? 100Hz? 150Hz? 200Hz?
3) I could use pretty much any amplifier board but the problem is that they don't have rca or aux output (input only), so I can't connect sub to portable speaker. Is there any way to add one to any amp or should I use this board (if it even has one???): Subwoofer Low-pass Filter Front Plate + High Level Input (input output balance) | eBay
◘ make a portable 2.1 speaker.
If I go this route I face these problems:
1) again subsonic ...
2) using tpa3116 2.1 is ok, but I don't know crossover point and how to change it (more of a problem using it with tweeters).
3) I could either use a tweeter or a fullrange:
• tweeter I have my eye on is OmnesAudio T25 OmnesAudio T25 H Tweeter | DIY
It has fs of about 980Hz and quite flat response, but I haven't seen any distortion charts so don't know if 1900-2000Hz 2nd order crossing would push it to its limits. I think the only way to go if using a tweeter is two (3) amps and my own passive 2nd order filters .
• fullrange I could use is 1" JBL Odyssey Plus from JBL Creature 2.1 system. Just google "JBL Odyssey" and you will see what I am talking about. OR previously afforamentioned 2" sony 10w full ranges, but I think these would need bigger enclosures inside, so bigger overal enclosure. Also treble should be worse considering they are 2".
4) Additionally, I could go with three seperate amplifier boards and use 2nd order filters in between, but is it worth the hussle?
5) Finally, do you have any more suggestions? Building portable subwoofer or portable speaker (performance wise, considering problems I would face)? Tweeter which can be crossed below 2KHz? What about Dayton ND series tweeters? Any fullranges under 20 pounds each with extended relatively flat treble?
Thank you for patience, I just want to make something (regarding bass response and loudness mostly) above JBL Charge 2 and in level or a bit above JBL Xtreme for considerably less money 🙂
P.S. Sorry for being bothersome.
◘ make a portable subwoofer which I could connect to any portable speaker using aux to rca cable. Problems:
1) finding cheap, small and steep subsonic filter (simple 2nd order cuts my f3 point drastically). Sites I use include amazon.co.uk, ebay, oaudio and all the other chinese ones.
2) highpass filter - is it enough using second order passive filter from capacitor and resistor (cascaded)? what crossover point to blend nicely with any portable speaker? 100Hz? 150Hz? 200Hz?
3) I could use pretty much any amplifier board but the problem is that they don't have rca or aux output (input only), so I can't connect sub to portable speaker. Is there any way to add one to any amp or should I use this board (if it even has one???): Subwoofer Low-pass Filter Front Plate + High Level Input (input output balance) | eBay
◘ make a portable 2.1 speaker.
If I go this route I face these problems:
1) again subsonic ...
2) using tpa3116 2.1 is ok, but I don't know crossover point and how to change it (more of a problem using it with tweeters).
3) I could either use a tweeter or a fullrange:
• tweeter I have my eye on is OmnesAudio T25 OmnesAudio T25 H Tweeter | DIY
It has fs of about 980Hz and quite flat response, but I haven't seen any distortion charts so don't know if 1900-2000Hz 2nd order crossing would push it to its limits. I think the only way to go if using a tweeter is two (3) amps and my own passive 2nd order filters .
• fullrange I could use is 1" JBL Odyssey Plus from JBL Creature 2.1 system. Just google "JBL Odyssey" and you will see what I am talking about. OR previously afforamentioned 2" sony 10w full ranges, but I think these would need bigger enclosures inside, so bigger overal enclosure. Also treble should be worse considering they are 2".
4) Additionally, I could go with three seperate amplifier boards and use 2nd order filters in between, but is it worth the hussle?
5) Finally, do you have any more suggestions? Building portable subwoofer or portable speaker (performance wise, considering problems I would face)? Tweeter which can be crossed below 2KHz? What about Dayton ND series tweeters? Any fullranges under 20 pounds each with extended relatively flat treble?
Thank you for patience, I just want to make something (regarding bass response and loudness mostly) above JBL Charge 2 and in level or a bit above JBL Xtreme for considerably less money 🙂
P.S. Sorry for being bothersome.
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