get bigger subwoofer driver and go crazy for cabinet and amplifier, once for all purpose music/HT
i build 2 cabinets of 2x12" sealed dual-opposed using infinity kappa perfect driver which is driven by behringer nu3000dsp.
with my livingroom 5x6m, now my limitations is the neighbour comfort because i could ever get it to the maximum spl yet.
10" and below is too small for in house active subwoofer, use it as woofer in your 3way. so i prefer to call it 3 way + active subwoofer system
i build 2 cabinets of 2x12" sealed dual-opposed using infinity kappa perfect driver which is driven by behringer nu3000dsp.
with my livingroom 5x6m, now my limitations is the neighbour comfort because i could ever get it to the maximum spl yet.
10" and below is too small for in house active subwoofer, use it as woofer in your 3way. so i prefer to call it 3 way + active subwoofer system
I have a smaller room so I am limited. I will add a second sub eventually. The SB29s can get really loud but I need better control via DSP.
In HS and college I had a bass amp with 2 x 15 inch "bass guitar" speakers; plenty loud but not much bellow 30 Hz; my sub now does 14 Hz and has decent SPL in room even this low!
I had a great set up back in my married days; my room was 16 ft x 27 ft and I had 4 x 12 subs that I tuned to 12 Hz; in room was VERY flat from 16 to 42 Hz; driven by 500 Watts!
In HS and college I had a bass amp with 2 x 15 inch "bass guitar" speakers; plenty loud but not much bellow 30 Hz; my sub now does 14 Hz and has decent SPL in room even this low!
I had a great set up back in my married days; my room was 16 ft x 27 ft and I had 4 x 12 subs that I tuned to 12 Hz; in room was VERY flat from 16 to 42 Hz; driven by 500 Watts!
http://sbacoustics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/8in-SB23MFCL45-4.pdf
I have one of these now; I will a second one later. They are really 9 inch, not 8 inch. In a small, closed box, they move a lot of air. With the Hypex plate amp; I only need to turn the level control up to about mid-point. The amp is rated at 175 WRMS into 4 Ohms as I remember. The sub is in a corner on the floor so plenty of room gain. I want a second one (I would have to wire in series unfortunately with this Hypex) but two or more subs in different room locations make for a much better balance and deep bass distribution (as opposed to one sub only).
The SB29s are for low bass duty but NOT sub duty. I use them above 40 Hz, up to 250 Hz max. (true stereo, widely separated in the room) They sound best in the two octave 40 to 160 Hz with passive LP (in room f3 is about 37 Hz). If I have an Crown amp with DSP, I can tailor the BP and smooth out room gain peaks that overwhelm on some recordings in the 40 Hz region.
I have one of these now; I will a second one later. They are really 9 inch, not 8 inch. In a small, closed box, they move a lot of air. With the Hypex plate amp; I only need to turn the level control up to about mid-point. The amp is rated at 175 WRMS into 4 Ohms as I remember. The sub is in a corner on the floor so plenty of room gain. I want a second one (I would have to wire in series unfortunately with this Hypex) but two or more subs in different room locations make for a much better balance and deep bass distribution (as opposed to one sub only).
The SB29s are for low bass duty but NOT sub duty. I use them above 40 Hz, up to 250 Hz max. (true stereo, widely separated in the room) They sound best in the two octave 40 to 160 Hz with passive LP (in room f3 is about 37 Hz). If I have an Crown amp with DSP, I can tailor the BP and smooth out room gain peaks that overwhelm on some recordings in the 40 Hz region.
Well, doing more ideas with the NE225; I THINK (not confirmed) that two each per side of the NE225W08HS in closed box in parallel (maybe with Aperiodic vent???) can and will equal the SB29NRX75-6 even in the low bass! Of Course; I got he NE225's because the SB29's just are not worth a crap above 200 Hz in my opinion; they just sound lifeless in the mid and upper bass. BUT, if you need bass from about 40 to 160 Hz; the SB29's ARE great! NOT what I want or need though. So; probably up for sale again. They can play really loud all day long with a really strong amp; just not enough music to my ears...more later...
Another new idea. If I put two per side of the NE225 in series; it will handle more power but SPL should stay the same (well, everyone says this is true anyway). I could then parallel that combination with the SB29's. I could run these all from my Crown as the combined impedance is over 4 Ohms (even at the minimums). I still want a new Crown with DSP but that may have to wait a few months yet. I have found some cheap truck style MDF speaker boxes on sale. These have the correct volume; they are for dual 10 inch and dual 12 inch. I already have one dual 10 inch truck style box. This gives me a very quick, cheap and easy way to experiment with different woofer configurations...BEFORE I start cutting on the expensive MDF sheets I have...besides, it's getting too cold to saw and drill outside. The garage is not heated; the basement is heated but not enough room for getting serious with power tools and large panels, boards, etc. This way; I can keep the project going. Again, my biggest issue here is smaller room size and speaker location options are unfortunately, very limited...
I finally got enough funds together so I ordered two more NE225W08HS 9 inch and a new Crown amp with DSP. This is model XLS2002. I have test boxes almost ready. The problem again is room size and placement. I will build new boxes eventually for the NE225s; there will be two per box, most likely in parallel (but could be series depending on SPL matching with all of my other drivers and amps). In doing so; I will have to put the SB29s in shorter boxes; there is just not enough space otherwise.
Right now, I have the new Crown feeding only the SB29s in older boxes with the DSP setting for band-pass; 42.5 Hz HP and 160 Hz LP. This stops the room mode boominess. I'm sure once I get these into the newer boxes and in the new location; I'll have to re-adjust the BP settings. Even with the Crown sensitivity setting for .775?; I don't have enough drive signal so I inserted my little booster amp between the source and the new Crown. Using an additional gain of 4 to 6 dB makes a huge difference. The Crown is designated as "PA" use so even using the RCA inputs instead of the XLR inputs required this extra drive level. On the other Crown amp feeding the NE225s; I don't have the same issue; those drivers are more sensitive even though that amp is not quite as powerful. More later...listening to acoustic jazz now
Right now, I have the new Crown feeding only the SB29s in older boxes with the DSP setting for band-pass; 42.5 Hz HP and 160 Hz LP. This stops the room mode boominess. I'm sure once I get these into the newer boxes and in the new location; I'll have to re-adjust the BP settings. Even with the Crown sensitivity setting for .775?; I don't have enough drive signal so I inserted my little booster amp between the source and the new Crown. Using an additional gain of 4 to 6 dB makes a huge difference. The Crown is designated as "PA" use so even using the RCA inputs instead of the XLR inputs required this extra drive level. On the other Crown amp feeding the NE225s; I don't have the same issue; those drivers are more sensitive even though that amp is not quite as powerful. More later...listening to acoustic jazz now
OK, I have four total of the Vifa/Tymphnay/Peerless NE225E08HS all in test boxes. Two per each stereo channel wired in series. I don't need to parallel because the SPL matches well with the SB29NRX75-6 which are now being powered by my new Crown amp with DSP. I have them band-passed at 42.5 to 160 Hz for now. With new Crown set on max output feeding the SB29s; the older Crown amp feeding the NE225s has more than enough gain even though they are series. The new Crown has more power but we are talking lower bass after all. Right now, I am running the NE225s at full range; no X/O whatsoever. They do sound really good for 8 inch (really 9 inch) even above 2000 Hz. They have trouble starting just above 2500 Hz. I will eventually cross these somewhere between 600 to 800 Hz to my MR16/P7P mids.
Acoustic jazz CDs for this afternoon; woofers only today, no subs, no mids, no tweets...
Acoustic jazz CDs for this afternoon; woofers only today, no subs, no mids, no tweets...
Crown BP now 37.5 to 140 Hz for the SB29s. The NE225s are purposely in larger boxes for a lower Q so the bass roll-off starts much sooner and is more gradual. This helps because the transient response is very important in the mid and upper bass ranges. Many people haven't heard "fast" bass; this is what we mean when we say "fast" bass...very quick and precise rise and fall times with no ringing. I don't need lower bass from the NE225s; that is what the SB29s are for. And, my sub does everything below about 40 Hz.
Once everything is in the proper place; THEN I will get out the calibrated mic., REW, etc. for the very last of the tweaks and fine tuning. I keep saying this but it's true; I don't usually need to make many accurate measurements since my musician side tells me what to do...kind of like "the force is with me", either you have it or you don't; I have have had it for over 50 years...
Once everything is in the proper place; THEN I will get out the calibrated mic., REW, etc. for the very last of the tweaks and fine tuning. I keep saying this but it's true; I don't usually need to make many accurate measurements since my musician side tells me what to do...kind of like "the force is with me", either you have it or you don't; I have have had it for over 50 years...
Well, 42.5 Hz HP on the low end seems to be the best compromise at this time; the LP on the high end will probably end up being 100 to 160 Hz. Right now, I have it on 125 Hz. Every recording is different so that is one reason I like having so many different drivers and amplifiers...fine tuning! SO GLAD I have the new Crown amp with DSP; room modes and bass frequencies are obviously easiest to control with DSP and active electronics. Again, not all drivers are in their final boxes and the room placement isn't 100 % final yet either...
Listening to Christmas jazz, modern and big band and everything in between. My Sister got all of Dad's Christmas LPs; I got the jazz and classical. I have a few on CD but mostly I am using YouTube and other streaming for this. What I said earlier; every recording is different. For sure, especially when on YT. Some barely have any bass; others practically blow you out of the room! So yes, having separate amps makes a huge difference in fine tuning the spectral balance; much better than tone controls of a single amp.
Hi, how does the NE225 compare with SB23 in bass (below 400Hz, both quantity and quality, without another woofer or sub).
It is difficult to get an idea from just the specs sheet as Klippel tests are available where NE225 has suspension limited xmax of less than 2mm and SB23 has suspension limited xmax of around 4mm. Hence, some notes from first hand experience would be really helpful.
Several versions of these woofers are available, but I believe they share the same suspension systems.
It is difficult to get an idea from just the specs sheet as Klippel tests are available where NE225 has suspension limited xmax of less than 2mm and SB23 has suspension limited xmax of around 4mm. Hence, some notes from first hand experience would be really helpful.
Several versions of these woofers are available, but I believe they share the same suspension systems.
Below 400Hz there may not be that much difference. I like the NE225 better overall though. Mine is the heat sink version and thus it has a higher power rating. It is no longer in production but I think the NE225 4 and 8 Ohm without heat sink may still be. To be honest, I tried Wavecor and SB 8 or 9 inch but prefer the NE225; it is designed and built more like a Satori or Illuminator; it is certainly way better in the mid and upper bass. If you want me to do some A/B; get back to me, I still have all of these and can maybe set up a new test based on your input.
Thank you for your reply.
NE225 being better in mids is not very expected as Tymphany labels them as 'subwoofers' whereas SB23 is labelled as 'woofer'.
I am not sure what subjective A/B test to suggest. If possible and not much of a hassle for you, can you please take distortion sweeps at levels where either shows signs of stress at frequecies above 40Hz?
I really can't wrap around my head the Klippel test I mentioned which says NE225 has xmax of 1.9mm limited by the suspension. Distortion sweeps would help here.
Do you think either SB23 or NE225 can be used upto 1400 or 1500Hz in a 2 way?
NE225 being better in mids is not very expected as Tymphany labels them as 'subwoofers' whereas SB23 is labelled as 'woofer'.
I am not sure what subjective A/B test to suggest. If possible and not much of a hassle for you, can you please take distortion sweeps at levels where either shows signs of stress at frequecies above 40Hz?
I really can't wrap around my head the Klippel test I mentioned which says NE225 has xmax of 1.9mm limited by the suspension. Distortion sweeps would help here.
Do you think either SB23 or NE225 can be used upto 1400 or 1500Hz in a 2 way?
They label it (NE225) as a subwoofer but it is really a mid woofer and can go quite high if need be. I have REW but only know the basics so far. My neighbor has my mic and interface right now on loan.
7.7 mm linear excursion listed
NE225W-08-HS - Tymphany
Try the loudspeaker data base site at
Loudspeaker Database
This seems to be accurate and does show some discontinued drivers.
Peerless by Tymphany NE225W-08-HS - 8" Subwoofer
The NE225 MIGHT make it as high as 1400 or 1500; I can try an experiment later; it's only about 6 AM here so the neighbors are sleeping in (Saturday, neither works weekends)
SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-4
I think I have the 4 Ohm SB23NRX; it's been some time; I will confirm later. I didn't think the mid and upper bass were that good here; it is fine as a woofer for a 3-way but I wouldn't recommend it for a 2-way (just my opinion). The Wavecor did better than the SB in mid bass but the NE225 was the best of the three I tried in mid and upper bass so of my three 8/9 inch; the NE225 would be the best choice for a 2-way.
Transducers Archive - Tymphany
3 models of NE225, I think the non heat sink 4 and 8 Ohm models are still in production
7.7 mm linear excursion listed
NE225W-08-HS - Tymphany
Try the loudspeaker data base site at
Loudspeaker Database
This seems to be accurate and does show some discontinued drivers.
Peerless by Tymphany NE225W-08-HS - 8" Subwoofer
The NE225 MIGHT make it as high as 1400 or 1500; I can try an experiment later; it's only about 6 AM here so the neighbors are sleeping in (Saturday, neither works weekends)
SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-4
I think I have the 4 Ohm SB23NRX; it's been some time; I will confirm later. I didn't think the mid and upper bass were that good here; it is fine as a woofer for a 3-way but I wouldn't recommend it for a 2-way (just my opinion). The Wavecor did better than the SB in mid bass but the NE225 was the best of the three I tried in mid and upper bass so of my three 8/9 inch; the NE225 would be the best choice for a 2-way.
Transducers Archive - Tymphany
3 models of NE225, I think the non heat sink 4 and 8 Ohm models are still in production
Vifa NE225W-04 8" Subwoofer Klippel data. -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
This is what I was talking about. Test by the same user shows xmax of 4.5mm iirc for SB23.
I can wait for the REW tests whenever you are ready.
I believe tymphany would have sold more units if they listed as NE225 as 'woofer'.
Do you have any experience with peerless hds 830869 ( 8 inch nomex cone woofer)? I have used this woofer in 2 ways and can relate to any comparisons.
Thanks again.
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
This is what I was talking about. Test by the same user shows xmax of 4.5mm iirc for SB23.
I can wait for the REW tests whenever you are ready.
I believe tymphany would have sold more units if they listed as NE225 as 'woofer'.
Do you have any experience with peerless hds 830869 ( 8 inch nomex cone woofer)? I have used this woofer in 2 ways and can relate to any comparisons.
Thanks again.
OK, I only know about the heat sink version first hand. The Nomex is said to be a very good sounding woofer. The HS version is rated at a higher power so maybe the X max is also greater. SB shows their X max as peak to peak, most vendors show only peak. I have two per side of my NE225 in series, they are in their own separate closed box of about 25 liters. I have them connected to a Crown amplifier that is rated for 450 W into 4 Ohms, 330 W into 8 Ohms so maybe we can assume it would do 150 W or greater into 16 Ohms. At max gain setting, the NE225 pairs don't even break a sweat, no signs of distortion, harshness, strain or any other bad sounds. Maybe we can find other independent tests of the NE225? Regardless, I personally don't think the SB23 would be very good at a 2-way. I have more SB drivers than all other brands combined and really like them. Do you have a budget in mind? I was told by a few others the WO24 Satori was similar to my SB29, lack of mid and upper bass. The SB29 and SB23 sound very similar to me; good for only woofer duties and not mid-woofer. That is how I ended up trying the SB23 and Wavecor both, the SB29 couldn't do justice to mid and upper bass that I wanted. Maybe others would have a different opinion or view than me on the SB23. The Satori MW19 might be a good choice for a 2-way but I haven't read any tests or reviews. It is more like 7.5 inches though and not 8 or 9 inches.
Peerless by Tymphany NE225W - 8" Subwoofer
The 8 Ohm NE225 is rated for 160 Watts RMS, the 4 Ohm NE225 is rated for 125 Watts RMS, my HS version is rated for 175 Watts RMS. So maybe the 4 Ohm version is not as good as the others?
Peerless by Tymphany NE225W-08-HS - 8" Subwoofer
The 8 Ohm NE225 is rated for 160 Watts RMS, the 4 Ohm NE225 is rated for 125 Watts RMS, my HS version is rated for 175 Watts RMS. So maybe the 4 Ohm version is not as good as the others?
Peerless by Tymphany NE225W-08-HS - 8" Subwoofer
I am looking for a 2 way that can play louder than peerless 8 inch nomex. Not many choices so far. NE225 seems to fit the bill, but I'll wait a while to see if you can make some distortion sweeps.
Or I can make a 3 way with dual 8 inch or single 10 inch. But I prefer a compact speaker.
The satori wo24 is a 9 inch woofer not appropriate for 2 ways, I think. Satori doesn't have a proper 8 inch.
Or I can make a 3 way with dual 8 inch or single 10 inch. But I prefer a compact speaker.
The satori wo24 is a 9 inch woofer not appropriate for 2 ways, I think. Satori doesn't have a proper 8 inch.
It may be quite some time before I can do any testing. I looked for more 3rd party testing of the NE225 and didn't find anything. The 8 Ohm has the same sensitivity as the 4 Ohm or close; and the 8 Ohm can take more power. Sometimes, Parts Express puts these on sale if you're not in a big hurry. There are some of the heat sink ones I have available in Europe last time I looked but I don't think anyone in N. America has any in stock.