Hello everyone,
I would like to get some advise from you about 2 class A SE amplifiers:
1) the POWER FOLLOWER by A. Ciuffoli http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/8231/my/Follower_99c.gif
2) the HYBRID AMP by Generoso Cozza http://digilander.iol.it/essentialaudio/hybrid_home.htm
The PF is an easy to build circuit (Harry Haller said nice things on it); my concern is about the abcence of gain (actually it looses something) and should be preceded by voltage gain stage:so it's impossible to connect it directly to a Cd player, it needs a pre-amplifier with an output not lower than 10Vrms .Does it mean that if I use a pre-ampli with "only" 8 Vrms output, the PF will not work at all or just the PF will not be able to reach the maximum output power (30 Wrms @ 6 Ohm load) ?
The HA is a two-stage, DC coupled, single-ended, Class-A amp, capable to deliver around 30W in an 8ohms load or 15W in a 4ohms load, using a tube in the first stage; a 1V input signal will drive the amp full power. So, the output level of a typical CD player is sufficient to drive the HYBRID amp. My concern is about the topology: it is similar to the the Zen output stage, so it will not sound at his best with difficult loads , like loudspeakers with low impedance or with impedance module above 45°.
I appreciate your useful opinion.
I would like to get some advise from you about 2 class A SE amplifiers:
1) the POWER FOLLOWER by A. Ciuffoli http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/8231/my/Follower_99c.gif
2) the HYBRID AMP by Generoso Cozza http://digilander.iol.it/essentialaudio/hybrid_home.htm
The PF is an easy to build circuit (Harry Haller said nice things on it); my concern is about the abcence of gain (actually it looses something) and should be preceded by voltage gain stage:so it's impossible to connect it directly to a Cd player, it needs a pre-amplifier with an output not lower than 10Vrms .Does it mean that if I use a pre-ampli with "only" 8 Vrms output, the PF will not work at all or just the PF will not be able to reach the maximum output power (30 Wrms @ 6 Ohm load) ?
The HA is a two-stage, DC coupled, single-ended, Class-A amp, capable to deliver around 30W in an 8ohms load or 15W in a 4ohms load, using a tube in the first stage; a 1V input signal will drive the amp full power. So, the output level of a typical CD player is sufficient to drive the HYBRID amp. My concern is about the topology: it is similar to the the Zen output stage, so it will not sound at his best with difficult loads , like loudspeakers with low impedance or with impedance module above 45°.
I appreciate your useful opinion.
Although I've never heard the Power Follower, I have heard many good things about it. I've never heard the Hybrid Amp either, but glanced quickly at the schematic--looks okay. Granted my usual reservations about current sources and current mirrors, it seems fairly clean.
The one reservation I have about the Hybrid Amp is that 35V rails are hardly optimal for a 6922. The poor thing doesn't even wake up at that kind of voltage. Distortion is likely to be higher than necessary.
Driving the Power Follower with less than 10V will not hurt anything at all. It will not develop full power though. It isn't difficult at all to drop a front end on a circuit like that--you could use a BOZ or BOSOZ as a dedicated front end, for instance. Hint: Don't think of the amps/preamps as all-or-nothing stand alone circuits, think of them as building blocks. Mix and match them to your heart's content.
Grey
The one reservation I have about the Hybrid Amp is that 35V rails are hardly optimal for a 6922. The poor thing doesn't even wake up at that kind of voltage. Distortion is likely to be higher than necessary.
Driving the Power Follower with less than 10V will not hurt anything at all. It will not develop full power though. It isn't difficult at all to drop a front end on a circuit like that--you could use a BOZ or BOSOZ as a dedicated front end, for instance. Hint: Don't think of the amps/preamps as all-or-nothing stand alone circuits, think of them as building blocks. Mix and match them to your heart's content.
Grey
Have a look at http://sound.westhost.com/project83.htm
This is another MOSFET Power Follower, which is probably even easier to build - and has a matching preamp too !
Klaus
This is another MOSFET Power Follower, which is probably even easier to build - and has a matching preamp too !
Klaus
GRollins: Isn't the BOZ delivering only 2,5 Volts?
Claudio: You can consider building a dedicated tube pre amp or integrated voltage stage like common cathode + cathode follower or SRPP circuit.
Also have you looked at JLH Class-A variations at The Class-A Amplifier Site http://www.gmweb.btinternet.co.uk? It doesn’t require preamp and will deliver up to 20W
Argo
Claudio: You can consider building a dedicated tube pre amp or integrated voltage stage like common cathode + cathode follower or SRPP circuit.
Also have you looked at JLH Class-A variations at The Class-A Amplifier Site http://www.gmweb.btinternet.co.uk? It doesn’t require preamp and will deliver up to 20W
Argo
Grey,
about the Hybrid Amp 6922 low voltage rails, I think Mr. Cozza used the tubes low voltage operation topology (Erno Borbely, Glass Audio vol.10, num.1, 1998).
About "amp/preamp as all or nothing", I am already building a pre ,a simple cascode already discussed here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2269&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
In summary, this pre as an output impedance of about 1 Ohm, so it will match perfectly the PF; just its output "not too high" to drive the PF
is my concern. As you can see, I am following an idea in choosing the 2 blocks: single stage, easy load, simplicity.
Klaus
thanks for the suggestion, but I prefer to decide between the 2 schematics I presented.
about the Hybrid Amp 6922 low voltage rails, I think Mr. Cozza used the tubes low voltage operation topology (Erno Borbely, Glass Audio vol.10, num.1, 1998).
About "amp/preamp as all or nothing", I am already building a pre ,a simple cascode already discussed here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2269&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
In summary, this pre as an output impedance of about 1 Ohm, so it will match perfectly the PF; just its output "not too high" to drive the PF
is my concern. As you can see, I am following an idea in choosing the 2 blocks: single stage, easy load, simplicity.
Klaus
thanks for the suggestion, but I prefer to decide between the 2 schematics I presented.
another MOSFET Power Follower
Make the +40 volt rail ground and power circuit from -40 volts. That is one of the most important features for the A. Ciuffoli design. The power supply is loaded by a constant current source instead of the series combo of speaker and follower. Much lower effective power supply impedance. A no brainer.....
H.H.
Make the +40 volt rail ground and power circuit from -40 volts. That is one of the most important features for the A. Ciuffoli design. The power supply is loaded by a constant current source instead of the series combo of speaker and follower. Much lower effective power supply impedance. A no brainer.....
H.H.
hello
look at this design. here is the link: http://www.raunvis.hi.is/~matti/hifi.htm
if you need more power just increase voltage.
dont build the hybrid amp. I´ve tried to build it and had a lot of problems. the amp keept blowing up the output mosfets. i've tried to change the output transistors (irfp240) and i had no luck. so i cannot recomend it. i've tried almost every thing to make it work.
regards
ricardo
look at this design. here is the link: http://www.raunvis.hi.is/~matti/hifi.htm
if you need more power just increase voltage.
dont build the hybrid amp. I´ve tried to build it and had a lot of problems. the amp keept blowing up the output mosfets. i've tried to change the output transistors (irfp240) and i had no luck. so i cannot recomend it. i've tried almost every thing to make it work.
regards
ricardo
Attachments
Thanks James for the enlightning article on TubeCad Journal; and thanks Ricardo for sharing your experience with the Hybrid Amp.
So now I think I will go on with the A.Ciuffoli Amp. About it, what do you think in changing the virtual battery power supply with a more common well filtered power supply?
For sure the virtual battery PS is cheaper to build and seems to work great: so why it's so uncommon to find it used in DIY projects?
Regards
Claudio
So now I think I will go on with the A.Ciuffoli Amp. About it, what do you think in changing the virtual battery power supply with a more common well filtered power supply?
For sure the virtual battery PS is cheaper to build and seems to work great: so why it's so uncommon to find it used in DIY projects?
Regards
Claudio
It is quite common and normally goes by the name of capacitance multiplier. See the project article at www.sound.au.com for more details.
A russian DIY-er reported the original hybrid amp sounds good but suffers a DC offset at the output.
Some people reported the virtual battery affects the bass performance.
If I was making the Follower 99 for speakers with decent sensitivity (circa 90-94 dB) I'd use a regular PSU - just caps, no chokes, semiconductors, etc.
Regards
Some people reported the virtual battery affects the bass performance.
If I was making the Follower 99 for speakers with decent sensitivity (circa 90-94 dB) I'd use a regular PSU - just caps, no chokes, semiconductors, etc.
Regards
my hybrids doesnt work , too
I had build generosos hybrid+, with pcb`s, bought from Mr. cozza.
Because i would save time in building my own pcb.
But - the hybrid+`s never worked. the mosfets blowed and after several attmpts and stupid mails with Cozza i gave up.
Meanwhile i build a Bosoz/Soz project which works really fine.
best amp i ever had!
Ralf
I had build generosos hybrid+, with pcb`s, bought from Mr. cozza.
Because i would save time in building my own pcb.
But - the hybrid+`s never worked. the mosfets blowed and after several attmpts and stupid mails with Cozza i gave up.
Meanwhile i build a Bosoz/Soz project which works really fine.
best amp i ever had!
Ralf
here is the link again: http://www.raunvis.hi.is/~matti/hifi.html
hope this time works
ps: if it dosent work, search in this link page: http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/Aren/id47.htm
hope this time works
ps: if it dosent work, search in this link page: http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/Aren/id47.htm
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