Still one of the better bass drivers you can buy if you want a clean useable range without resonances, that is easy to filter and implement.
Also be aware that the TL-1601's has undergone changes along the way.
Changing venting/airflow, and the motor structure several times since the original EL-403 /TL-1601 was released.
It is optimized to perform over a wider range then most 3-ways call for. So depending on priorities there might be better suited drivers for that purpose.
The issue with modern PA driver is that even most 15" will not go very deep without EQ and some power behind. 100W is not much margin to EQ a 15"....
I had worked on a 15"/6"/1" HiFi speaker concept some time ago - never realized, had blown up the concept to 18"/8"/1" then - and intensive market research accompanied with simulations gave me following last selection as best compromise between TSPs, good value and features:
Sica 15S3PL
Faital Pro 15FH520
Both very low mechanical losses / very high Qm, low EPB for deep tuning and nice motors for the class.
(Enclosure volume in sim was about 120l, if I remeber correctly)
Another two options that look very good also, but only available from TLHP france:
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/br...ker-kartesian-wom380-vtlhp-8-ohm-15-inch.html
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/br...speaker-phl-audio-5510mnds-8-ohm-15-inch.html
Both specified and designed for Hifi-Application.
Best regards
Peter
I had worked on a 15"/6"/1" HiFi speaker concept some time ago - never realized, had blown up the concept to 18"/8"/1" then - and intensive market research accompanied with simulations gave me following last selection as best compromise between TSPs, good value and features:
Sica 15S3PL
Faital Pro 15FH520
Both very low mechanical losses / very high Qm, low EPB for deep tuning and nice motors for the class.
(Enclosure volume in sim was about 120l, if I remeber correctly)
Another two options that look very good also, but only available from TLHP france:
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/br...ker-kartesian-wom380-vtlhp-8-ohm-15-inch.html
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/br...speaker-phl-audio-5510mnds-8-ohm-15-inch.html
Both specified and designed for Hifi-Application.
Best regards
Peter
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I would stick to BMS, Audiotechnology and Acoustic Elegance. All of them are hi-end manufacturers.
You can also look at Wavecor offerings 😉
You can also look at Wavecor offerings 😉
This might be near what TAD have offered.
Supravox 380
https://www.supravox.fr/en/products...33dYbBmjJ_1Z_SbXkiDcShJQyVVIinmR6poA4qK2NjxkS
Also alnico version is availalble.
high sensivity, good frequency response and low distortion. (Also high price)
Supravox 380
https://www.supravox.fr/en/products...33dYbBmjJ_1Z_SbXkiDcShJQyVVIinmR6poA4qK2NjxkS
Also alnico version is availalble.
high sensivity, good frequency response and low distortion. (Also high price)
What these three manufacturers don't offer is the lowest mechanical losses.
Here are the Fs/Qms values (lower is better) of some models:
AE TD15M: 6.8
AT 15 E 102 25 10: 12
BMS 15N830 V2: 8.8
Faital Pro 15FH520: 3.7
Sica 15S3PL: 2.3
AT have a low-loss 15" with a value about 3.1 but the price is over 1000 Euros.
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Always read by designers saying such bass drivers gave better sound but the price being bigger cabinets. No life below 400 L VAS and 15" if a standalone bass driver per channel.
This narrows down the candidates quite a bit. Do you think 400 L of Vas is still desirable if you don't want this large of a box?
Can you tell me how this impacts construction, technical data, or sound of the drivers? Thanks
Some says lower mechanical losses leads to more dynamic contrast to the sound.
Oh me I can't because the price and huge box, but I remember there are few candidates... The 15" SB acoustics, The Davis Acoustics, The EMS drivers, Old americans brands too, certainly more I don't know. Some NLA Fostex.
I would desire very high VAS = very low Fs for closed box application.
Such speakers in very low tuned, vented enclosure would give a very deep linear freefield response, but I personally perceive that too boomy with added room gain. Group delay gets often also large with such alignments.
For vented, Fs around 30-35 Hz and Ots around 0,35 - 0,4 (EPB ~80-90) is a very good tradeoff between enclosure volume, efficiency, group delay and low frequency rolloff behavior vs room gain at least for my taste and application.
The larger the driver, the more sensitive it becomes to mechanical losses when used for domestic purpose in my experience; breakup forces to start the cone suspension moving around zero velocity and excitation are critical as they are highly nonlinear, e.g. hysteresis. The larger the cone, the less it has to stroke for some medium living room level and the more contribution have the nonlinear breakup effects around the zero position. So I look at drivers with low Rms / high Qms in general (in hope that the fraction of nonlinar beakup behavior is also small...). This is the case with the Faital, Sica and Kartesian (Qms > 16, seems that Cement has made the same experience than me, and that guy usually exacly knows what he does...) I proposed before. PHL has not such exceptional low losses as the other drivers, but is known for sounding very good also at low levels and often used for studio monitors, e.g. by Genelec.
Best regards
Peter
Such speakers in very low tuned, vented enclosure would give a very deep linear freefield response, but I personally perceive that too boomy with added room gain. Group delay gets often also large with such alignments.
For vented, Fs around 30-35 Hz and Ots around 0,35 - 0,4 (EPB ~80-90) is a very good tradeoff between enclosure volume, efficiency, group delay and low frequency rolloff behavior vs room gain at least for my taste and application.
The larger the driver, the more sensitive it becomes to mechanical losses when used for domestic purpose in my experience; breakup forces to start the cone suspension moving around zero velocity and excitation are critical as they are highly nonlinear, e.g. hysteresis. The larger the cone, the less it has to stroke for some medium living room level and the more contribution have the nonlinear breakup effects around the zero position. So I look at drivers with low Rms / high Qms in general (in hope that the fraction of nonlinar beakup behavior is also small...). This is the case with the Faital, Sica and Kartesian (Qms > 16, seems that Cement has made the same experience than me, and that guy usually exacly knows what he does...) I proposed before. PHL has not such exceptional low losses as the other drivers, but is known for sounding very good also at low levels and often used for studio monitors, e.g. by Genelec.
Best regards
Peter
PHL is a true PA brand, their lo drivers have low Fs to permit high spl... So ask you too choose among th biggest size to get low Fs... Danger is th eroom is less than 35 square metter is to have too much worse bad mods, forcing you to seat in a low energy low mode area ?
Yeas sealed or phase correction with vented assume (if we talk about end game)
Yeas sealed or phase correction with vented assume (if we talk about end game)
P.S.:
If your listening room is a large hallway and your usual desired listening SPL is "live Rock Concert" at the seat position to blow you competely away, forget all my suggestions. Buy 18Sound Tetracoil, RCF L16S, BMS V² or so and push it and EQ it hard with the fattest amp you can get.
But in many cases you have a standard living room, family, neighbours, play backround music and TV sound and often listen to just normal or elevated levels. You wanna enjoy classics, jazz e.g that has also a lot of fine detail sound information. Of course, sometimes you crank up and just enjoy, but there is no real need to max the speaker completely out and gain the last few max dB capabilty with double suspensions, very large coils, exhausted drives and kW of power.
As you need less excursion and current than with smaller drivers, the magnet system becomes less critical also. A well made modern standard magnet system, problably with a shorting ring and neo magnet is fully sufficient. But care more for the mechanical losses to ensue that it can reproduce fine detals and sound good also at low listening levels.
So, what is the definition of "End Game"? For me it is the speaker that gives the overall best tradeoff for the application and use case, but not the one with somewhat most exhausted and most expensive driver....
Best regards
Peter
If your listening room is a large hallway and your usual desired listening SPL is "live Rock Concert" at the seat position to blow you competely away, forget all my suggestions. Buy 18Sound Tetracoil, RCF L16S, BMS V² or so and push it and EQ it hard with the fattest amp you can get.
But in many cases you have a standard living room, family, neighbours, play backround music and TV sound and often listen to just normal or elevated levels. You wanna enjoy classics, jazz e.g that has also a lot of fine detail sound information. Of course, sometimes you crank up and just enjoy, but there is no real need to max the speaker completely out and gain the last few max dB capabilty with double suspensions, very large coils, exhausted drives and kW of power.
As you need less excursion and current than with smaller drivers, the magnet system becomes less critical also. A well made modern standard magnet system, problably with a shorting ring and neo magnet is fully sufficient. But care more for the mechanical losses to ensue that it can reproduce fine detals and sound good also at low listening levels.
So, what is the definition of "End Game"? For me it is the speaker that gives the overall best tradeoff for the application and use case, but not the one with somewhat most exhausted and most expensive driver....
Best regards
Peter
Go for scan speak drivers the beolab 90 has them also.
Use 3 Diy subs with a total of 5 discovery&revelator drivers and Hypex Fa amps.
The 13'' revelator subwoofer plays up to 2000hz for use in speakers.
Use 3 Diy subs with a total of 5 discovery&revelator drivers and Hypex Fa amps.
The 13'' revelator subwoofer plays up to 2000hz for use in speakers.
I’m surprised nobody mentioned Purifi Ptt10… I know… it’s 10inch not 15, but the specs are insane and seems to work great in a sealed enclosure that you said you like. I only skimmed the thread so maybe you made your mind up, but would you consider a coax for the mid and high? And active DSP? If so something like this might be interesting but replace the woofer with the Purifi ptt10 driver?
https://seas.no/index.php?option=co...ro4y-mk-iii&catid=66:seas-diy-kits&Itemid=345
I’m very tempted, but love a compression driver on a horn so that’s where I’m headed!
https://seas.no/index.php?option=co...ro4y-mk-iii&catid=66:seas-diy-kits&Itemid=345
I’m very tempted, but love a compression driver on a horn so that’s where I’m headed!
Hi Arez,
Kindest regards,
M
Based on your posts, you seem to have experience with this woofer. What would be your enclosure recommendation from let us say 40Hz up for the 1601a?
Kindest regards,
M