Hi Perceval,
That’s a nice job you did there - the XO is very simple. It actually looks very close to transient perfect given the very flat measured acoustic phase:
What is surprising is that the predicted phase has all that noise and wraps up and down. I wonder if you don’t have the inter-driver delay adjusted correctly in XSim? But in real life it is corrected by placement of drivers.
Those race track drivers are probably a good candidate for a TL.
That’s a nice job you did there - the XO is very simple. It actually looks very close to transient perfect given the very flat measured acoustic phase:
What is surprising is that the predicted phase has all that noise and wraps up and down. I wonder if you don’t have the inter-driver delay adjusted correctly in XSim? But in real life it is corrected by placement of drivers.
Those race track drivers are probably a good candidate for a TL.
@zman,
Yes, unfortunately one at a time. The limiting factors are time and not enough weights to fully press the side panel flat. The 1” XPS is surprisingly rigid, the board I purchased had a slight bend to it that I didn’t notice.
@X,
It’s not normal to stock 25lb bags of lead in the house?? Hahaha!!
Speaker #1 will sing tonight and #2 will be ready tomorrow for full stereo enjoyment.
Cheers,
Vunce
Yes, unfortunately one at a time. The limiting factors are time and not enough weights to fully press the side panel flat. The 1” XPS is surprisingly rigid, the board I purchased had a slight bend to it that I didn’t notice.
@X,
It’s not normal to stock 25lb bags of lead in the house?? Hahaha!!
Speaker #1 will sing tonight and #2 will be ready tomorrow for full stereo enjoyment.
Cheers,
Vunce
I didn't adjust anything in XSim, as the drivers where measured while placed on the baffle. But, I didn't extract minimal phase so that might be why.
And yes, a plan is already set to put the race track driver in a TL, vertically, and add a FR on top.
It does sim very well.
Attachments
Yep! but 8 Ohms. that is with a single driver, not dual.
Should be quite nice!
I didn't try to sim dual woofers... it would be insane output.
My answer to the RS225 which is hard to get around here.
Vunce,
You are killing me with the wait - now another 24 hrs for stereo?!!!
The burden of every DIYer out there! ha ha!
Vunce,
You are killing me with the wait - now another 24 hrs for stereo?!!!
I know, I know! Me too
I can only guess it is made by Usher.
I have tried for years to get contacts into that factory and have access to some of that stuff... alas, no success.
I'm sure it has been a blessing for Usher to sell so many drivers under the Dayton brand, but for their own brand and image, Usher has been stagnating and falling.
I guess money was more important than pride.
Too bad.
I have turned to SBA as my next brand of choice, and they have been coming up with some pretty good stuff lately.
I have tried for years to get contacts into that factory and have access to some of that stuff... alas, no success.
I'm sure it has been a blessing for Usher to sell so many drivers under the Dayton brand, but for their own brand and image, Usher has been stagnating and falling.
I guess money was more important than pride.
Too bad.
I have turned to SBA as my next brand of choice, and they have been coming up with some pretty good stuff lately.
Hi Perceval,
Is the above the sensitivity you are gettng at 2,83v and 1m? That racretrack driver is quite the driver. I have an SB23 that I have been meaning to put in the cabinet and take a measurement to develop a crossover. It is not as flat of a response as the RS225 so may take an extra notch filter. However, I think it may be 2dB more sensitive.
Sorry, no. The above graph was not calibrated nor measured to be at 2.83V.
It was at 1m though.
I've come to be really enamoured by these racetrack drivers.
They can be used in multiple ways and designs, they can be pushed with EQ without breaking a sweat or going into uncontrolled distortion, and sim incredibly well in a MLTL.
I think I'm going to order a box of them for future designs!
It was at 1m though.
I've come to be really enamoured by these racetrack drivers.
They can be used in multiple ways and designs, they can be pushed with EQ without breaking a sweat or going into uncontrolled distortion, and sim incredibly well in a MLTL.
I think I'm going to order a box of them for future designs!
Last edited:
Hi DrPro,
The plans for the TL are here. The driver spacing is same for TL or sealed. If you can get the CTC distance between the woofer and fullrange smaller, that is better. I have 7.5in to give clearance for the Dagger/sports cone. Maybe 7in can work? Distance from top to woofer CL is 6in.
The plans for the TL are here. The driver spacing is same for TL or sealed. If you can get the CTC distance between the woofer and fullrange smaller, that is better. I have 7.5in to give clearance for the Dagger/sports cone. Maybe 7in can work? Distance from top to woofer CL is 6in.
FAST TL’s are Singing!
This journey started as a simple question posed to X, can the 10R/8424 & RS225-8 FAST monitors be made into a floorstander speaker? I’ve never really been satisfied with monitor type speakers unless a subwoofer was present, but this speaker intrigued me. A few days later the FAST TL model was whipped up and posted. So, let’s build a speaker! I don’t want to bore you recapping the XPS foamboard build, but, I will say there were a few details that took longer than anticipated finishing up the interior damping and sealing.
How do they sound?......Fantastic!!!
These FAST TL’s have exceeded my expectations. I am amazed a speaker built from foamboard can sound this good. I move out my Forte’s and placed the FAST TL’s in the same location. They are 2” narrower but 5” deeper than the Fortes. Unfortunately, my living room setup will not allow for optimum distance from boundaries to get ultimate spatial characteristics, but all speakers that I use in this room are placed in the same spot, so all is relative. When listening to music the word ‘snappy’ comes to mind. These speakers have a quick and agile presentation, the “toe tap” feeling is there in spades. The Scanspeak 10F driver is so clear and detailed without being ‘shouty’. Acoustic guitar has the ‘in the room’ realism to it. Even heavy metal with all its inherent distortion and chaos has a refined quality. Percussion work sounds incredible, I like to play Godsmack’s Batalla De Los Tambores when putting new gear through its paces. The sound stage is wide and deep and the impact of the kick drum was seriously powerful.
The TL design has plenty of low frequency reinforcement, no subwoofer needed for music playback. I’m sure with more break in time these speakers will get even better. The FAST TL speakers are definitely a keeper and worthy of a fine wood cabinet..... another project
Thank you X for entertaining my thought and producing an excellent floorstander design!!
Cheers,
Vunce
This journey started as a simple question posed to X, can the 10R/8424 & RS225-8 FAST monitors be made into a floorstander speaker? I’ve never really been satisfied with monitor type speakers unless a subwoofer was present, but this speaker intrigued me. A few days later the FAST TL model was whipped up and posted. So, let’s build a speaker! I don’t want to bore you recapping the XPS foamboard build, but, I will say there were a few details that took longer than anticipated finishing up the interior damping and sealing.
How do they sound?......Fantastic!!!
These FAST TL’s have exceeded my expectations. I am amazed a speaker built from foamboard can sound this good. I move out my Forte’s and placed the FAST TL’s in the same location. They are 2” narrower but 5” deeper than the Fortes. Unfortunately, my living room setup will not allow for optimum distance from boundaries to get ultimate spatial characteristics, but all speakers that I use in this room are placed in the same spot, so all is relative. When listening to music the word ‘snappy’ comes to mind. These speakers have a quick and agile presentation, the “toe tap” feeling is there in spades. The Scanspeak 10F driver is so clear and detailed without being ‘shouty’. Acoustic guitar has the ‘in the room’ realism to it. Even heavy metal with all its inherent distortion and chaos has a refined quality. Percussion work sounds incredible, I like to play Godsmack’s Batalla De Los Tambores when putting new gear through its paces. The sound stage is wide and deep and the impact of the kick drum was seriously powerful.
The TL design has plenty of low frequency reinforcement, no subwoofer needed for music playback. I’m sure with more break in time these speakers will get even better. The FAST TL speakers are definitely a keeper and worthy of a fine wood cabinet..... another project
Thank you X for entertaining my thought and producing an excellent floorstander design!!
Cheers,
Vunce
Attachments
Hi Vunce,
Thank you for being the pathfinder for this TL speaker. Amazing work and very quick too. So glad it makes bass deep enough for you to say a sub is not needed! Awesome! Since they work so well, will you get a second set of drivers and make another set in wood, and have a set of nice shop speakers to use? They are nice and light to move around. Good for maybe patio music sessions at the weekly Saturday soirée. Bring a powerful 100w Class D amp along and you are set.
So what amp are you driving them with at present?
Congratulations!
Thank you for being the pathfinder for this TL speaker. Amazing work and very quick too. So glad it makes bass deep enough for you to say a sub is not needed! Awesome! Since they work so well, will you get a second set of drivers and make another set in wood, and have a set of nice shop speakers to use? They are nice and light to move around. Good for maybe patio music sessions at the weekly Saturday soirée. Bring a powerful 100w Class D amp along and you are set.
So what amp are you driving them with at present?
Congratulations!
Nice review of the project Vunce. Sounds like a keeper, and I bet would look super nice in a wood enclosure. Congratulations!!.
For X and Aksbak: Since I want to try to build this with my existing drivers ( 2 x DC160's -4 ohm and 1 x DC28F -8ohm), I realize that this will take some modifications. One being a series X-over for the DC160's, a taller enclosure (maybe around 48") to accomodate the 160's aligned vertically, and using a silk dome tweeter should negate the use of the dagger enclosure (I think, but not sure).
In some muddy waters here and need some guidance on whether this is even possible, or, to just build as prescribed in the thread and find a better project for my dayton drivers. Thanks for any comments.
Regards
For X and Aksbak: Since I want to try to build this with my existing drivers ( 2 x DC160's -4 ohm and 1 x DC28F -8ohm), I realize that this will take some modifications. One being a series X-over for the DC160's, a taller enclosure (maybe around 48") to accomodate the 160's aligned vertically, and using a silk dome tweeter should negate the use of the dagger enclosure (I think, but not sure).
In some muddy waters here and need some guidance on whether this is even possible, or, to just build as prescribed in the thread and find a better project for my dayton drivers. Thanks for any comments.
Regards
Hi X,
Yes, the cost to performance ratio of this build is unbelievable and I will definitely make a WAF appropriate version
I’m currently driving them with a USSA5 amplifier, very surprised how powerful they sound with a 25w Class A. When they break-in a bit, I’ll hit them harder with my V4H amp. Since the XO’s are outside the cabinet I’m thinking of throwing together a selector switch to A/B different 61uF capacitor combinations.
Yes, the cost to performance ratio of this build is unbelievable and I will definitely make a WAF appropriate version
I’m currently driving them with a USSA5 amplifier, very surprised how powerful they sound with a 25w Class A. When they break-in a bit, I’ll hit them harder with my V4H amp. Since the XO’s are outside the cabinet I’m thinking of throwing together a selector switch to A/B different 61uF capacitor combinations.
I think what you want is closer to this speaker.
Low-Cost PMC-inspired TL Monitor with DC130A and DC28F
The TL from that is where I got the impetus to make the TL for this RS225. It sounded really amazing for a single 5.25in inexpensive Dayton DC130A.
What you are talking about with dual DC160 and DC28 in TL is basically a new design from scratch. The XO is different and the TL is different.
I just made a XO for an RS28F and RS180P last night. It wasn’t too hard but the cabinet was in place already.
RS28F-RS180P-B80 as Hole Filler 3-way
Here are measurements:
I can help you with a sim of the dual DC160’s. You will then build the cabinet install both drivers, measure them and produce FRD data files. You also need to get the ZMA (impedance) sweeps. With these we can design a new crossover. It takes some tools, and lots of reading and practice to get the measurements.
This is what the people in the Multi-way forum do. The basis of multi-way speakers is making the cabinet with educated choices. Then measure, then design passive XO.
Last edited:
Vunce,
Excellent effort on the build! The results look great and I'm glad they sound good. Pictures and The 1000 Words parable is always true. Your work has me full of questions:
1) How does the low end of the FAST TL’s compare to the Forte's?
2) Do you like to use a sub (subs) with the Forte's?
3) Is the structure of the assembled speaker substantial enough to accept the glue-up of exterior 1/4 inch panels (regarding gaining the look of wood while being light weight)? The question goes to X as well.
I'm asking because of having Forte II's in my less-than-ideal living room, and have heard Forte's, so this is a good situation for me to decide on moving forward on FAST TL’s. They check several boxes for me, like TL design, dagger shapes, full range response, etc. The construction has similarities to my house because my walls are built with SIPs, so we live inside dampened panels and the quiet is easily noticeable. I wonder about starting the speaker build with a laminate panel verses laminating the completed foam speaker box like a core.
Excellent effort on the build! The results look great and I'm glad they sound good. Pictures and The 1000 Words parable is always true. Your work has me full of questions:
1) How does the low end of the FAST TL’s compare to the Forte's?
2) Do you like to use a sub (subs) with the Forte's?
3) Is the structure of the assembled speaker substantial enough to accept the glue-up of exterior 1/4 inch panels (regarding gaining the look of wood while being light weight)? The question goes to X as well.
I'm asking because of having Forte II's in my less-than-ideal living room, and have heard Forte's, so this is a good situation for me to decide on moving forward on FAST TL’s. They check several boxes for me, like TL design, dagger shapes, full range response, etc. The construction has similarities to my house because my walls are built with SIPs, so we live inside dampened panels and the quiet is easily noticeable. I wonder about starting the speaker build with a laminate panel verses laminating the completed foam speaker box like a core.