The statement (documented thousands of times in much literature) that bass sounds (subfrequencies) are omnidirectional is true, but I wonder if it is not contradicted by experience.
When a storm is coming, don't we perfectly distinguish from which side of the horizon the thunder comes?
Has anyone measured them to find out which FR they belong to ?
When a storm is coming, don't we perfectly distinguish from which side of the horizon the thunder comes?
Has anyone measured them to find out which FR they belong to ?
The statement (documented thousands of times in much literature) that bass sounds (subfrequencies) are omnidirectional is true, but I wonder if it is not contradicted by experience.
When a storm is coming, don't we perfectly distinguish from which side of the horizon the thunder comes?
Has anyone measured them to find out which FR they belong to ?
The statement needs to include that boundaries are involved, ie, in a box with walls. When you're outside, in an open field with no walls, you will mostly be able to locate a sound source. But play a low sound source in a boundary defined room, ie, walls, that changes.
Very best,
The statement (documented thousands of times in much literature) that bass sounds (subfrequencies) are omnidirectional is true, but I wonder if it is not contradicted by experience.
When a storm is coming, don't we perfectly distinguish from which side of the horizon the thunder comes?
Has anyone measured them to find out which FR they belong to ?
No, only the lower the fundamental, the wider its BW, ergo you'll feel a good bit of it as well as its harmonics to locate it if in a large enough space, otherwise just harmonics to 'just' pinpoint it's in the room/space assuming the speaker is time/phase correct enough.
For instance, among some other seriously VLF sound events, I've 'experienced' a 500 lb TNT bomb simulation while observing some outdoor military training maneuvers and even though I didn't know nor did I see, the detonation site initially I had no trouble instantly pinpointing its location before the shock wave hit me and extremely glad I didn't experience it with the recruits.
Thunder is apparently fairly narrow at ~ 4 - 125 Hz/100 dBA fundamental
So I can feel comfortable with my subwoofers, I hear the subs (20-40hz) with the same intensity throughout the room.
I attribute it to the stereo configuration, before, with a single subwoofer, the bass was "stuck" to the walls / corners. Now the room "modes" have almost completely disappeared.
I attribute it to the stereo configuration, before, with a single subwoofer, the bass was "stuck" to the walls / corners. Now the room "modes" have almost completely disappeared.
I've done blind tests of subwoofer location a few times. I've often used Meyer Sound subs, and measured for harmonics - of which there were not enough to be audible. No one claimed to hear them. I can locate bass down pretty low, but it gets harder as frequencies get near 20 Hz. But in the octave of 30-60, no problem pointing right at it. But not many people we tested could do it. Some where audio pros, and they could not locate LF sounds.
I suspect that it's dependent on the person. Stereo subs have always been important to me, probably because I can locate low sounds (I've been able to point to an earthquake with accuracy). But some people just can't locate LF sounds - so they can happily place a sub wherever they please. Lucky!
On the other side of the spectrum, my high frequency hearing was never stellar. I could hear a TV flyback, but it never bothered me.
Wait, why lucky if they can't run off in the right direction ?I suspect that it's dependent on the person. Stereo subs have always been important to me, probably because I can locate low sounds (I've been able to point to an earthquake with accuracy). But some people just can't locate LF sounds - so they can happily place a sub wherever they please. Lucky!
Regarding the OP's question, I think that below 20 Hz not only do we not perceive audible improvements in the music (I'm not talking about HT here) but also - especially for those of us who like to listen to vinyl - things get complicated by feedback. acoustics. I don't use the typical 20 Hz filter, but there is a limit to the SPL I can apply. Luckily it is quite high.
Good point since its frequency response is ~0.1-10 Hz.Wait, why lucky if they can't run off in the right direction ?
I guess it is then. After all, it's the brain that processes the information, and not the ears.
Btw. what is funny that also one morning at 07 after hard night of drinking with my friend, I was pointing at my swimming pool that had some strange looking waves. And I said to him "if earthquake would make some waves they would probably look like that". Later turned out, there was an earthquake at that moment. I could not feel it since I was anyway swaying from side to side.
Hmm, we'll have to agree to disagree assuming your system can accurately reproduce the best recorded low B pipe organ CDs, though even these are clipped at +30 dB dynamic headroom, so still not 'live'.
Yeah, vinyl's entertaining/'pleasing' to the ears, but the (electronic?) low B on Rick Wakeman's 'The Six Wives of Henry VIII', while better than nothing, still is just a 'joke'/token effort Vs live.
I'd guess all those people are not listening to the same sub. I've found bandpass subs are a lot more difficult to locate than direct radiator subs. Harmonic distortion can give the location of a subwoofer away.
Rob.
I have the vinyl of Don Enrique's six wives (how many did he kill or order to kill? Those were good times to fix home problems, haha) I will compare the vinyl vs. Tidal, which is supposed to be in "Master" quality = CDA? OR REMASTERED?
It seems to me nonsense that "The volume war" has reached those "vintage" musical works....
I certain do NOT find 10-25Hz necessary for music. The vast majority of music doesn't have much content under ~50Hz. But the very low sounds can add to the ambience and realism of music recorded in large venues - and I like that. It can help the "you are there" feeling. But so can the 40-80Hz octave if it's really solid.
The flip side is that more than a few recordings have a lot of trash way down low. I suppose that the mixing and mastering suites never noticed them.
HT is another question, tho I doubt that the sound editors are counting on many people ever hearing much below 25Hz.
The flip side is that more than a few recordings have a lot of trash way down low. I suppose that the mixing and mastering suites never noticed them.
HT is another question, tho I doubt that the sound editors are counting on many people ever hearing much below 25Hz.
If I'm to believe Google, only two in that he trumped up charges and had Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard executed.
Got the vinyl also, but only see a CD, DVD on A&M Records available, though only CD available for sale; regardless looking forward to your comparison as I can't do one anytime soon.
Got the vinyl also, but only see a CD, DVD on A&M Records available, though only CD available for sale; regardless looking forward to your comparison as I can't do one anytime soon.
Agreed. Not to mention most ht systems i encountered at my colleagues places had sound bar accompanied by questionable sub.
I personally make no distinction between audio system for music or for ht. Once the system is good, it works for any audio signals.
This was to reply to Pano.
I personally make no distinction between audio system for music or for ht. Once the system is good, it works for any audio signals.
This was to reply to Pano.
Overall, most shows and movies simply do not have much content below 20hz. Most of them have plenty of 30hz content. Lately, we are seeing more and more that have sub-30hz content. There are a handful that have content beyond a few seconds or moments below 20hz that are often cited as benchmarks for a system, but it's literally a moment or a few seconds in a single film out of literally thousands of movies and shows that lack anything close to it.
Most music also does not really get down to 30hz, but of course, it depends on the music. Natural instrument music and natural human vocals won't have much 30hz content and very little to none lower than that. But there's a lot of electronic music that does have gobs of stuff at 30hz and below. Even then though, most of it is not going very far under 30hz and I dare say most of them are not looking to do 20hz at all, but they will play a little in the 25~30hz region. Very little goes lower than that in the grand scheme of music out there, tens of thousands of tracks that do not.
So if someone wanted to build a value subwoofer system for 99.99999% of the content out there, a competent system that does 30hz will do everything they need. They would have to build a system to do 20hz and up to handle the 0.00001% of content out there that actually has meaningful information below 30hz. And even less for content that goes below 20hz.
I think the sub-20hz infrasonic systems are mostly a gear thing, for fun, a hobby thing. Fun to tinker with. But other than measuring it with a microphone, there's no meaningful content out there (movies, shows, music) that will utilize such a capable system. These systems will have to use the same old handful of examples to show off the capability. And this is cool, if you can do it and want to, by all means go for it. But going into such a system, one must certainly know that there's virtually nothing that will use that capability.
I build all my systems for 20hz to 20khz basically to capture and cover 99.99999% of the content I'm ever going to actually put through it. I have several systems, some for movies/tv (hometheater) and some for music but they can all handle either content in stereo form no problem. My main distinction with the systems is stereo vs multi-channel and that's it.
Very best,
Most music also does not really get down to 30hz, but of course, it depends on the music. Natural instrument music and natural human vocals won't have much 30hz content and very little to none lower than that. But there's a lot of electronic music that does have gobs of stuff at 30hz and below. Even then though, most of it is not going very far under 30hz and I dare say most of them are not looking to do 20hz at all, but they will play a little in the 25~30hz region. Very little goes lower than that in the grand scheme of music out there, tens of thousands of tracks that do not.
So if someone wanted to build a value subwoofer system for 99.99999% of the content out there, a competent system that does 30hz will do everything they need. They would have to build a system to do 20hz and up to handle the 0.00001% of content out there that actually has meaningful information below 30hz. And even less for content that goes below 20hz.
I think the sub-20hz infrasonic systems are mostly a gear thing, for fun, a hobby thing. Fun to tinker with. But other than measuring it with a microphone, there's no meaningful content out there (movies, shows, music) that will utilize such a capable system. These systems will have to use the same old handful of examples to show off the capability. And this is cool, if you can do it and want to, by all means go for it. But going into such a system, one must certainly know that there's virtually nothing that will use that capability.
I build all my systems for 20hz to 20khz basically to capture and cover 99.99999% of the content I'm ever going to actually put through it. I have several systems, some for movies/tv (hometheater) and some for music but they can all handle either content in stereo form no problem. My main distinction with the systems is stereo vs multi-channel and that's it.
Very best,
You might find this interesting.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/spectrum-of-musical-genres.310900/post-5152404