I have a new office and I think that dictates I build a new sound system for my desk.
Budget is under $400. Considering mostly low power drivers as I don't need the power
Here are the 4 different styles I have been going back on
Budget is under $400. Considering mostly low power drivers as I don't need the power
Here are the 4 different styles I have been going back on
- MTM with the two woofers angled directly at me so it acts a single point source
- I could do this with some cheaper woofers ($20-50) and a decent tweeter.- This allows for just a 2 way keeping the crossover decently cheap and allowing more cash for the drivers
- I can always just slap a sub under the desk if I don't want to port this which would keep the foot print very small
- 3 way - tweeter, mid dome, woofer
- I do think a mid dome would be good for near field as they are supposed to be very delicate sounding and are all quite low power
- This requires a 3 way crossover so a bit more money on the XO
- Most dome mids seem to have issues unless you drop a lot of cash (considering dayton's fabric dome here)
- I don't know if a 3 way is worth it for near field
- The box size required for a woofer that would hit low enough to have a mid dome make sense might defeat the purpose
- I have considered sticking a low hitting woofer on the side of the enclosure. This keeps it slim but I can always go very tall to get volume
- Traditional 2 way
- Cheap XO and only 2 drivers let me spends more money on drivers
- This opens up driver selection a bit though I notice drivers usually go from around $50, then to $100, then its a HIGH jump to $300-500
- This is boring, this is what I already have at my desk, but if this is best then let me know.
- Full range
-Considering a Mark Audio 3" in an oblong enclosure so I don't need to notch the baffle.- Seems a lot of the full range stuff needs a really large box which I feel defeats the purpose a little bit. I do have some W5-2143 in my pool room and they are awesome for what they are.
- I sometimes find full range drivers harsh when listening near field
Drivers I am considering
MTM
-Hivi Q1R tweeter (15w) - Seems very well behaved
https://www.parts-express.com/HiVi-Q1R-1-1-8-Textile-Dome-Tweeter-297-417?quantity=1
-Dayton Aluminum 4" woofer - Seems like a good bang for the buck
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DA115-8-4-Aluminum-Cone-Woofer-295-328?quantity=1
-Peerless 830656 5.25 Woofer - I do very much like my Peerless 8" so I imagine this would be good
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-5-woofers/peerless-830656-5.25-woofer/
3 Way
-Hivi Q1R again
-Dayton Dome - Cheap and might be a good entry into domes
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...Fabric-Dome-Midrange-8-Ohm-285-022?quantity=1
-Tang Band Dome - This is going to take a huge chunk out of the budget
https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-Band-50-1426SE-2-Fabric-Dome-Midrange-264-855?quantity=1
-Dayton LW150 6" low profile - this could be side mounted and would hit pretty low
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-LW150-4-6-Low-Profile-Woofer-4-Ohms-295-255?quantity=1
- Dayton Reference RS150 6" - This would likely need to be forward mounted so this would take a lot more space but I might be able to get away with 1st order XO
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...ference-Paper-Woofer-8-Ohm-295-573?quantity=1
2 Way
- Morel MDT12 Tweeter - I don't know a ton about this but it looks good and I could mount it very close to the woofer
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/morel-soft-dome-tweeters/morel-mdt12-1-textile-dome-tweeter/
-Hivi Q1R again
- SB SB21RDCN Ring Dome Tweeter - This thing looks cool and it would fit the bill. Very linear response
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...-sb21rdcn-c000-4-ring-dome-tweeter-neodymium/
-Hivi L6-4R Kevlar Woofer - very well behaved FR and it looks cool. Would be easy to XO
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/hi-vi-woofers-6-7/hi-vi-l6-4r-6-woven-kevlar-cone-4-ohm/
- SB SB12CACS25 Ceramic 4" Woofer - Well behaved, will hit decently low if I port it. Ceramic looks cool
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ustics-sb12cacs25-08-4-ceramic-woofer-8-ohms/
-SEAS Prestige CA12RCY 4.5" Woofer - I hear very good things about this woofer
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...e-ca12rcy-h1152-4.5-coated-paper-cone-woofer/
- Scanspeak 15W 5" Woofer - Boring looking but I'll bet it sounds great
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-15w/8434g00-discovery-5.25-midwoofer/
Full Range in Circular enclosure
- MarkAudio Alpair 5 3.5" Full Range - I hear the mid range of this is magical.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-3-fullrange/markaudio-alpair-5-gen.3-gold-3-full-range/
-Scanspeak Discovery 10F 4" Full range - Again, I hear really good things
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...canspeak-discovery-10f/8414g-10-4-full-range/
-Fostex FE108-SOL - I have heard nothing about these but Madisound says good for a horn. Before my recent 2 way I listened to a folded horn design of my own making for about a year. That build now lives in my kitchen and still sounds pretty great for a $10 driver. Amazing what a proper folded horn can do
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...ex-fe108-sol-limited-production-4-full-range/
I honestly cannot decide what to do here so let me know your opinion. Thanks!
Great driver for a low power nearfield. I use it in a small desktop speaker. Sounds amazing. But no bass.
1st things first…….never an MTM in the near field unless the midwoofers are really small…….which means you’d need a sub…..so never an MTM in the near field……they need distance to sum and the fwd lobes to blend.
Three way is difficult in the near field due to sheer size constraints……near field three ways typically have a vertical tweeter and midrange with the woofer to the side…….trick to get this to work on a desktop
Full Range……well…..you’ve kinda covered that ……a hybrid with a small full range acting as a mid tweeter with a helper woofer works well in the near field…..very well actually……mid tweeter has to be small though….4” or less
Coaxial/ Coincident…….as good as it gets if the driver is good. Raw driver options available aren’t plentiful……and the KEF UniQ is so good as to make a DIY effort more of a ‘could I’ instead of ‘should I’ kind a thing. The KEF Q150 at its core is a great speaker……crossover is nice for low power applications. The problem is the cheap box and resonance……build your own well braced non resonant box and the $359 speaker turns into a real gem beating speakers 5x the price. My main mixing monitors in my commercial studio are modified Q150’s
Now the two way……..build the RIGHT design for near field and your use and you’ve got the best option price no object…….a true ribbon tweeter crossed high to a 5.25 midwoofer. Make sure the vertical listening axis is between the woofer and ribbon.
Three way is difficult in the near field due to sheer size constraints……near field three ways typically have a vertical tweeter and midrange with the woofer to the side…….trick to get this to work on a desktop
Full Range……well…..you’ve kinda covered that ……a hybrid with a small full range acting as a mid tweeter with a helper woofer works well in the near field…..very well actually……mid tweeter has to be small though….4” or less
Coaxial/ Coincident…….as good as it gets if the driver is good. Raw driver options available aren’t plentiful……and the KEF UniQ is so good as to make a DIY effort more of a ‘could I’ instead of ‘should I’ kind a thing. The KEF Q150 at its core is a great speaker……crossover is nice for low power applications. The problem is the cheap box and resonance……build your own well braced non resonant box and the $359 speaker turns into a real gem beating speakers 5x the price. My main mixing monitors in my commercial studio are modified Q150’s
Now the two way……..build the RIGHT design for near field and your use and you’ve got the best option price no object…….a true ribbon tweeter crossed high to a 5.25 midwoofer. Make sure the vertical listening axis is between the woofer and ribbon.
ATC SCM25a shows a way; always thought this shape is quite versatile for many spaces.
@wolf_teeth posted a nifty economical 3-way of similar shape/layout some time ago
I vote for a 3-way, but your money probably goes further with a 2-way.
I don't believe point source is the term you're looking for, and you wouldn't get it by pointing them toward you in any case.
For on desk placement it may make sense to consider cylindrical source.
IF you go with a dome midrange, look at the HiVi DMB-A for $28.
I'd personally go two way. MAC-05 midwoofer from Jule Fidelity (JFcomponents) and GRS RT1.0-8 tweeter.
I'd personally go two way. MAC-05 midwoofer from Jule Fidelity (JFcomponents) and GRS RT1.0-8 tweeter.
a hybrid with a small full range acting as a mid tweeter with a helper woofer works well in the near field…..very well actually……mid tweeter has to be small though….4” or less
-This. I've done a lot of near field listening. With a small 8" sub box under the desk, options arise. But without one, or the room for larger boxes, I think having the power go to a capable (as possible) 5.25 woofer in a 2 way with a full range is the best. I don't miss the tweeter being close to a quality full range. You said yourself you love the sound of yours (I love them too), and with the woofer you won't need the excessively large (for a desk) cabinets.
Is your budget just the speakers, you have your amp?
Loren
-This. I've done a lot of near field listening. With a small 8" sub box under the desk, options arise. But without one, or the room for larger boxes, I think having the power go to a capable (as possible) 5.25 woofer in a 2 way with a full range is the best. I don't miss the tweeter being close to a quality full range. You said yourself you love the sound of yours (I love them too), and with the woofer you won't need the excessively large (for a desk) cabinets.
Is your budget just the speakers, you have your amp?
Loren
Hi, desktop speakers have similar requirements as any other speaker root questions being how loud you want it and with what extension? and how much you move around?
Wide coverage point source makes sense on short listening distance, because small movement of head changes angles towards speakers quite a lot, and if coverage is narrow, or erratic, sound changes quite a lot with head movement. This is either subtle issue or significant one, depending on how you feel about it. Personally I found it major grief when I tried to do mixing with 5" fullrange driver speakers I had years ago, as the top end constantly changes (with head movement) the reference is lost, whole balance changes, and it's very hard to judge a mix. Otherwise they were nice speakers, but just didn't work for nearfield mixing. So, do your spinoramas if this stuff is relevant to you.
Size of speaker/drivers depends mainly on the SPL, if you listen at 70db/1m calculate what you need for that + dynamics for the bandwidth you have in mind. Looking chart here https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/volume-displacement-for-spl-chart.5668/#post-55869 for example 85db of 50Hz at 1m needs about 20cm^3 of volume displacement, which is roughly what a 4" driver with ~2.5mm xmax can do in a closed box. If you need 30Hz then it's ~50cm^3 and job of two of those drivers.
Wide coverage point source makes sense on short listening distance, because small movement of head changes angles towards speakers quite a lot, and if coverage is narrow, or erratic, sound changes quite a lot with head movement. This is either subtle issue or significant one, depending on how you feel about it. Personally I found it major grief when I tried to do mixing with 5" fullrange driver speakers I had years ago, as the top end constantly changes (with head movement) the reference is lost, whole balance changes, and it's very hard to judge a mix. Otherwise they were nice speakers, but just didn't work for nearfield mixing. So, do your spinoramas if this stuff is relevant to you.
Size of speaker/drivers depends mainly on the SPL, if you listen at 70db/1m calculate what you need for that + dynamics for the bandwidth you have in mind. Looking chart here https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/volume-displacement-for-spl-chart.5668/#post-55869 for example 85db of 50Hz at 1m needs about 20cm^3 of volume displacement, which is roughly what a 4" driver with ~2.5mm xmax can do in a closed box. If you need 30Hz then it's ~50cm^3 and job of two of those drivers.
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edit. time over:
The other way around is you can quickly calculate whether some driver might do it by xmax * 2 * Sd: a Vifa/Tymphany TG9 3" fullrange driver can do 0.26cm * 2 * 36cm2 about ~18cm3 of volume displacement. Looking at the chart at 85db it's something like 50-60Hz, which seems reasonable. Same driver in VituixCAD box sim shows only 75db max around 50-60Hz though and 85db at around 90Hz. This is in few liter closed box. If this isn't to meet your targets you'll need heftier woofer in a bigger box. But, be sure to check what kind of SPL you actually need, at what average level you listen to and how much headroom you'd like for the music you listen to.
The other way around is you can quickly calculate whether some driver might do it by xmax * 2 * Sd: a Vifa/Tymphany TG9 3" fullrange driver can do 0.26cm * 2 * 36cm2 about ~18cm3 of volume displacement. Looking at the chart at 85db it's something like 50-60Hz, which seems reasonable. Same driver in VituixCAD box sim shows only 75db max around 50-60Hz though and 85db at around 90Hz. This is in few liter closed box. If this isn't to meet your targets you'll need heftier woofer in a bigger box. But, be sure to check what kind of SPL you actually need, at what average level you listen to and how much headroom you'd like for the music you listen to.
a small 8cm driver close to back wall, damped front panel - sounds incredibly correct
Same fullrange driver in a bigger wooden enclosure with concrete inside making the box stable.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/are-cardboard-enclosures-any-good.394837/post-7719815
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/are-cardboard-enclosures-any-good.394837/post-7719815
I like the 3 way in the near field.
With three bands it is very easy to get undistorted sound in the range of 40-20000 Hz. But as I understand it, for the near field it is important to have a linear crossover phase, the linear phase will allow you to match the speakers with each other without unnecessary headaches. It will be very difficult and unproductive to match three speakers with the first order of the filter, but if you use DSP with FIR band division, then this task becomes quite feasible. Also, as I understand it, it is important to have the same acoustic centers in three speakers for the near field, which in turn allows you to get a collected sound in the entire frequency range. Correction of the frequency response in the listening area, taking into account the influence of the room, allows you to improve the sound of the speakers to a completely acceptable degree if the room does not resonate strongly.
If you use DSP, it is quite easy to expand the operating range of the low-frequency speaker downwards, by correcting its frequency response.
As I understand from my experience, in order to squeeze the maximum out of three bands, with the maximum result, it is best to use active band division using DSP. If you have a desire to immerse yourself in the world of active speakers, then consider such a DSP Amp board, which allows you to enter this world without spending a lot of money.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/3-way-dsp-amp.415065/#post-7734938
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/board-3-way-dsp-amp.415079/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...ac-with-dsp-adau1452-100w-per-channel.410804/
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The hybrid with a small full range for the highs is an interesting idea. Will that be able to get the same detail as a traditional soft dome tweeter?
This is exactly what I was thinking but with the woofer below instead of off to the one side.
What is the advantage to having it off to the side?
That tweeter looks very nice.
Have you tested that MAC-05? Could you share that data with me? I guess same if you've tested the GRS as well
Are you suggesting the same with the smaller full range as my mid-tweeter then? So thats two votes for that
The budget is just for the speakers. I already have a little 50w x 2 amp that I like and am currently using
So this is a rock and a hard place issue for me. The current setup I have uses a very large baffle and is very directional. This is by design. I want the music to stay in my office, not leak out into the shop bothering all of my technicians deep into their work.
I can actually move my head around the desk and hear the tone change.
For one day I put my Dark Series 2 way in the office. They designed to fill a giant living room with sound. You can be 90 degrees off axis and it doesn't matter that much. The issue was you could hear my music throughout the entire show. Even at a low level.
Inbetween there must be a balance.
This might make sense to dip my toe into DSP for this project.
Do you make and then sell these boards yourself?
What material is that? Is it some sort of open cell foam?a small 8cm driver close to back wall, damped front panel - sounds incredibly correct
Same fullrange driver in a bigger wooden enclosure with concrete inside making the box stable.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/are-cardboard-enclosures-any-good.394837/post-7719815
Yes, these are my boards, I built myself an active 3 way stereo system on similar boards, and I liked the end result so much that I decided not to leave the DIY community without such a convenient circuit solution.
Once you get into the DSP topic you will feel its flexibility and versatility. I believe that after getting acquainted with the capabilities of DSP you will not want to go back to passive filters in three-way speakers.