In my experience the last couple decades, there are precious few drivers you can be delivered, throw into a test box and be as satisfied with as these.
Sitting in my shop with them now, for about 3 days. 60ft by 28ft, nearly 10ft ceilings. Much greater sd and lower fs than scan 10f, but sensitivity, flat fr and off axis response remarkable. Meant to grab them for a while, and when some other drivers I wanted were on sale, I got a pair. Wanted to grab ten more but restrained myself to 4.
Right at the point a driver this size starts to turn directional and get in your face, they have a tiny, built in "BBC dip". The high and low end roll off are balanced very nicely. The sensitivity is everything you hope for with an fs of 63hz and top end extension like this, and the driver is so lifelike because of it.
Also unique is how some of the off axis peaks make it seem to have the polar response of a smaller driver.
Not just for the price, but at any price this is one of the top 3 full range drivers I have ever heard. They have nailed the trade offs IMO.
Sitting in my shop with them now, for about 3 days. 60ft by 28ft, nearly 10ft ceilings. Much greater sd and lower fs than scan 10f, but sensitivity, flat fr and off axis response remarkable. Meant to grab them for a while, and when some other drivers I wanted were on sale, I got a pair. Wanted to grab ten more but restrained myself to 4.
Right at the point a driver this size starts to turn directional and get in your face, they have a tiny, built in "BBC dip". The high and low end roll off are balanced very nicely. The sensitivity is everything you hope for with an fs of 63hz and top end extension like this, and the driver is so lifelike because of it.
Also unique is how some of the off axis peaks make it seem to have the polar response of a smaller driver.
Not just for the price, but at any price this is one of the top 3 full range drivers I have ever heard. They have nailed the trade offs IMO.
If for proper full range duty wouldn't the NRX be better, I think the MNRX has poorer bass duty, unless you meant wide range work where it is coupled with a woofer?
Oon
Oon
On axis that looks ok, but off axis that is relative poor for a fullrange with big peaks and dips. But it's better than some that are really claimed fullrange drivers and a good midrange driver. But the best fullrange? Not for me. Mark Audio can do a lot better i think.
How about distortion?
I really wanted to like the SB10. It has a lot going for it, but it also has a big distortion peak at 4kHz.
Wondering about distortion with this SB12.
I really wanted to like the SB10. It has a lot going for it, but it also has a big distortion peak at 4kHz.
Wondering about distortion with this SB12.
If for proper full range duty wouldn't the NRX be better, I think the MNRX has poorer bass duty, unless you meant wide range work where it is coupled with a woofer?
Oon
True, but the longer coil, increased moving mass and slightly lower force factor have the NRX touching 85db on some of the midrange dips and the FR is more ragged.
The MNRX is a solid 90db, which is hard to find in a driver this size and flat as a pancake from ~250hz to 5000hz, the entirety of the most critical band, save for a tiny 2db dip around 1500hz, which helps a driver of this size being used full range in my experience as that is where it is becoming directional and starting to break up into modes.
3 and 4 inch drivers transition from omnidirectional pistonic operation to directional bending mode right at the area in which human hearing is very sensitive, and if it is not dealt with correctly they can "get in your face" right there. I'm sure if I searched I could find a more accepted term as an analogy, but that is the one that always comes to mind: shrill.
The top rolls off to match the bass very nicely, so as not to sound bright and the sensitivity detail is excellent.
You are correct that I lean more toward the camp that thinks a full range is a mid range that does not need a tweeter. The directivity of anything larger than 4" is unsatisfying to me, and I like to be able to hit SPLs of at least 105db on transients staying within x-max, so when you're dealing with piston areas of ~27 to 50 cm^2, if you can do 300hz and up I'm happy. This driver is on par with the Fountek FR89EX in that area, but with much greater sensitivity and smoother response.
When I get a driver I haven't used before, I always throw them in a test box and let them play in the shop for a while to break them in and get a feel for their strengths and weaknesses. I don't think I've ever had a driver surprise me in the way this one has. Not shrill, bright or bass anemic. Not over damped, warm and fuzzy. It has the right balance of top and bottom roll off, lively, detailed sensitivity and is probably the only driver I could honestly say I could just throw in a box and happily listen to if I wanted.
Regards, Jason
Oon
True, but the longer coil, increased moving mass and slightly lower force factor have the NRX touching 85db on some of the midrange dips and the FR is more ragged.
The MNRX is a solid 90db, which is hard to find in a driver this size and flat as a pancake from ~250hz to 5000hz, the entirety of the most critical band, save for a tiny 2db dip around 1500hz, which helps a driver of this size being used full range in my experience as that is where it is becoming directional and starting to break up into modes.
3 and 4 inch drivers transition from omnidirectional pistonic operation to directional bending mode right at the area in which human hearing is very sensitive, and if it is not dealt with correctly they can "get in your face" right there. I'm sure if I searched I could find a more accepted term as an analogy, but that is the one that always comes to mind: shrill.
The top rolls off to match the bass very nicely, so as not to sound bright and the sensitivity detail is excellent.
You are correct that I lean more toward the camp that thinks a full range is a mid range that does not need a tweeter. The directivity of anything larger than 4" is unsatisfying to me, and I like to be able to hit SPLs of at least 105db on transients staying within x-max, so when you're dealing with piston areas of ~27 to 50 cm^2, if you can do 300hz and up I'm happy. This driver is on par with the Fountek FR89EX in that area, but with much greater sensitivity and smoother response.
When I get a driver I haven't used before, I always throw them in a test box and let them play in the shop for a while to break them in and get a feel for their strengths and weaknesses. I don't think I've ever had a driver surprise me in the way this one has. Not shrill, bright or bass anemic. Not over damped, warm and fuzzy. It has the right balance of top and bottom roll off, lively, detailed sensitivity and is probably the only driver I could honestly say I could just throw in a box and happily listen to if I wanted.
Regards, Jason
Hello Mr. Pass, hope all is well with you.
The ones that stick out would be the Scanspeak 10F/4424G, which I've used many times in dipole builds, crossed to an 8". It has excellent sensitivity, flat response, low distortion and the rear measures nearly exactly as the front over most of it's range. Does not quite have the bass extension of this one if used alone in a sealed box though, a bit brighter but wonderful detail.
The other one that sticks out was the Fountek FR89EX. Sacrificed a bit of sensitivity, but with an SD of only 27cm^2 and 5mm of x-max, this tiny driver could easily hit over 100db at around 250hz without a care, and had great top end extension. A unicorn for sure. Might want to tame it a bit between ~2 and 4000hz however, it could get in your face there.
Have to add the orignal Jordan 4", although I only used it once it was very listenable.
I do believe I've bought and tried about every 3 and 4" fullrange out there at this point (other sizes also). I cannot really find a problem with this one yet it's a very pleasant surprise, especially for the money. I'm going to use it in some full range bass assist builds, but I am really enjoying what is coming out of the sealed boxes they are in right now and my shop is not small.
Anyone new to speaker building would enjoy these as a starting point I believe. They are easy button drivers.
Regards, Jason
I agree it's much better to be pleasantly surprised by a mid that sounds good full, than disappointed by a claimed full range. In my experience the top has to be rolled off in a way that matches the bottom to sound balanced.
The 6000hz off axis dip at 60 degrees is quite narrow, and comes back up to a shelf that is only around 7 or 8db down from on axis.
At 30 degrees, it rolls off smoothly to a 8db dip at 8000hz, and comes back up to match the on axis at around 12,000hz
I'll admit my shop is much larger than the typical listening space, but it actually seems to help the balance of the spectrum compared to other fullrange drivers I've used.
I should also point out that although my hearing at 55 years old isn't as sensitive to content above 10k as it used to be (or 5k for that matter), I have always detested bright recordings. I can put up with a lot, but bright makes me cringe and I can't change it fast enough. Even as a youth I knew there was something wrong with those Rush recordings, although I didn't understand what it was yet lol
These drivers nail the entire band that is most sensitive to human hearing. From 300hz to 3000hz they crush it, and to 5,000hz in fact. They are not bad above that either, only deviating a few decibels, and the bass is surprisingly well balanced with the top, although true full range cranking electronica is going to require a woofer this is to be expected.
Regards, Jason
SB10 is outstanding for the price, but I know exactly what you mean and it's a sensitive spot. This is a better driver in many ways. I'll try to get some measurements up asap.
Regards, Jason
Thank you!
Will be looking forward to those, as I can get SBA drivers fairly easily in my little corner of the world.
Plus, it models very nicely in a TABAQ MLTL enclosure.
Attachments
Measurement
Bare in mind this test box is 13" deep with a foam cushion stuffed in it, about 5.5" wide by 9 inches tall, and the front and back tacked on with an air gun...not exactly sealed. I don't usually measure anything in these boxes, just make different baffles to burn in drivers playing in the shop while I'm working.
Mic is 20cm from the driver to get a decent measurement considering it's not in a great spot and it is not countersunk either.
Considering all this, the worst of it would be a 3rd harmonic peak at 4200hz. That peak however is around 43db down...0.6%. 2nd harmonic hits about 0.5% at the break up point. Pretty damn clean and smooth.
Glad I trusted my ear and bought more, with a proper design these will shine. They sound laughably good right now considering what they're in.
Bare in mind this test box is 13" deep with a foam cushion stuffed in it, about 5.5" wide by 9 inches tall, and the front and back tacked on with an air gun...not exactly sealed. I don't usually measure anything in these boxes, just make different baffles to burn in drivers playing in the shop while I'm working.
Mic is 20cm from the driver to get a decent measurement considering it's not in a great spot and it is not countersunk either.
Considering all this, the worst of it would be a 3rd harmonic peak at 4200hz. That peak however is around 43db down...0.6%. 2nd harmonic hits about 0.5% at the break up point. Pretty damn clean and smooth.
Glad I trusted my ear and bought more, with a proper design these will shine. They sound laughably good right now considering what they're in.
Attachments
Had to wait for the website redesign to see it.
The redesign is a bit harsh but as with everything, we'll get use to it.
Thank you for sharing the distortion numbers.
I will be ordering a pair next month and have a little fun. For me, the first thing will be to try them in a MLTL. That's my go-to design. Just love them.
Again, thanks a bunch, and happy holidays!
The redesign is a bit harsh but as with everything, we'll get use to it.
Thank you for sharing the distortion numbers.
I will be ordering a pair next month and have a little fun. For me, the first thing will be to try them in a MLTL. That's my go-to design. Just love them.
Again, thanks a bunch, and happy holidays!
Has anyone tried one of these? I bought a dozen of them. Haven’t tried them yet though
http://camerton-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Binom_A2_specifications.pdf
https://hifipig.com/camerton-binom-a1-rev-2-full-range-driver/
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/camerton/
http://camerton-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Binom_A2_specifications.pdf
https://hifipig.com/camerton-binom-a1-rev-2-full-range-driver/
https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/camerton/
hmmm.. I'm guessing it's sarcastic?
at over 7,000 euros a pair, that'd be $42,000 for a dozen.... it is out of the reach of most DIYers!
The pair mentioned in this thread are about $120 !
Normally I'd be weary of the marketing pitch of a 5" driver covering 35Hz to 28kHz... even though 6moons seems to like it, I still have my doubts.
I guess I will never know, as I am not going to order a pair anytime soon! 🙂
at over 7,000 euros a pair, that'd be $42,000 for a dozen.... it is out of the reach of most DIYers!
The pair mentioned in this thread are about $120 !
Normally I'd be weary of the marketing pitch of a 5" driver covering 35Hz to 28kHz... even though 6moons seems to like it, I still have my doubts.
I guess I will never know, as I am not going to order a pair anytime soon! 🙂
I haven’t tried them yet. So only going off of the manufacturers claims as well as 6 moons. But the designer is no fool. He was Voxativ’s top engineer for years. And this driver is his greatest achievement yet.
You're very welcome. Seems a great fit for your project, I look forward to seeing the results. Happy holidays to you also!
Ah, Ye Olde Balsa strikes again... See the Dr. Carl Pinfold driver described in Wireless World around 1980.
Still curious to learn what a more modern Balsa coned driver does this time.
Could you present SPL measurements (ARTA/REW/CLIO or whatever) on a 5dB/Div scale of that Camerton Driver on 1 meter on axis?
Still curious to learn what a more modern Balsa coned driver does this time.
Could you present SPL measurements (ARTA/REW/CLIO or whatever) on a 5dB/Div scale of that Camerton Driver on 1 meter on axis?