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Well is nothing more than the truth
Open user manual read specs and you will understand
for example known EQ of the market might have inside 4558 or 5532 as buffers
Now go read distortion bandwidth and speed of any of those and rememeber that 16 of them interact with your signal
measure crosstalk ( since mot of times is not written )
and THD
there you go
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Open manual read specs then you will understand
second see what op amps exist inside see their specs also .
DSP and Eq have no place in hi end systems
they do the job but it will cost you
MCintosh room correction is simply rubish just a gadjet for kids to play
if your system cannot paly witout it then the system is Rubbish
If the room cannot accomodate the system then choose another system or another room
streching the signal to fit the room destroys the music
these people you refer JBL M2, Klipsch Jubilee, Grimm Audio LS1, Kii III, Dutch & Dutch 8с, Genelec 8381, B&O Beolab 90, Steinway Lyngdorf... creted a gozillion gadjets for kids to like this has absolutely nothing to do with music. They just added digital thingies in their systems for kids to play at 2025.
Different types of cables good, bad, worst, or perfect will eventually add a parameter in the system
meaning that a phase shift by a few degrees is expected plus a change in dumping factor .
these is things that eventually will happen to a small degree but will happen
So this is actually the reason audiophiles talk about diference....indeed exists
Now if these parameters will work for your benefit or not , if these changes are correct or not , an after all if you are going to like them is the question to answer.
the main issue with alll these mentioned above is that all will play , So people are happy and also have the elusion that they ve done right since one mic of 3USD told them so together with an Israeli chip that costs another 5 USD implemented by some Chinese engineers (though approved by Cambridge Audio ) .
To complete your question EE with 40 years in the industry of AUDIO been hearing anything you can imagine in my life .
Owner of EAST ELECTRONICS a 40 year old company that repairs audio machines for 40 years and today with the rate of 3500 audio machines per year
Starting from humble Kenwood KA5700 till Momentum from Di Agostino .
To do that we have invested over time over 100K in instruments but also the knowledge to use them correct .
So if you wana know about distortion in a DBX2*16 EQ well there trust me i can share a lot
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Arrogant statements.
You started with an “innocent” question about how to connect a bi-wiring cable that a friend gave you, and two pages later you've gotten to the point where you've heard and know everything in the world and you've given a **** about some of the best systems for audiophiles and studios. What an unexpected transformation. Your marketing still in the 90's?
That's not the subject we started talking about, although I'd be happy to discuss these at another time.
Just to put straight what I was talking about with series inductance since direct filtering of this nature is a reversible effect..
I leave it to you to show that there is anything more happening...
audiphiles and studios have absolutely nothing together.
I couldnt agree more that in a studio and pro use this is absolutely the best way to go and indeed a pair of good nmonitors could be easily adjusted to any application and any room . Things that in the past we couldn't do If we where lucky enough we could choose the right monitor for the right application .
1000%+ for PA which is easily can be adjusted to any room and any application .
Couldnt be easy for Wilson speakers to have a DSP that does everything ?
NO and NO big time
Wilson speakers have small mechanical factory on them where time allignement can be done mechanicaly to meet any room and any application Focal also .... brobably others too
That is Hi end my friend not DSP
Indeed one innocent question by one person about one issue that appeared to define things as we knew them so far ( in the specific speaker , amplifier , and room ) doesn't say anything about my background
I can accept that my speaker had 4.5degrees wrong phase and now this is corrected by the phase issue introduced by the cable
I can accept that this is a posibility
In this case i might got lucky and solved a problem clearly out of luck
there got surprised and placed the question
So my result might solved a problem but might be far away than standard practice .....That is why i placed the question, on heat,jaw dropped by the result
I Can bring measuring equipment in my home and measure exactly what the difference is before and after ( not sure that this will tell me why also )
But this is 2 days of work to do and IDONT HAVE these 2days ...too busy
That is why i placed the question
Measuring will take palce in September
Now days target is summer vocation .
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And that's also marketing from the 90's, build a spectacular mechanical design that does almost nothing useful. (FYI, I've heard Wilson Audio many times, just in-house colored sound).
It's really sad. 😅
@olegtern
My friend .... this is a public place ...every one has the ability to place his opinion
so we did
lets leave this here .....
I will just pin point one hint for you ......
Recently one amplifier come to me for repair . European Brand heavy name big box tagged 5 figures number .
Amplifier was damaged by the client by accident .
what i have seen was a design that had a typical clasaAB amplifier , a huge power supply typical mosfet design , with a very lengthy PCB 48cm , and three small tiny cables that supplied from this huge trafo and PSU to the middle of the board .
So what is wrong with that .....
To supply in the middle to a 48 cm PCB you need beefy and thick PCB traces to disttribute power that will introduce parasitic oscillation capacitance and inductunce that is not necesery ( the Japanese used flat copper bars to solve this issue ) .
Then if you steal form the pcb to avoide these issues then you face the issue that on transistor will ring today and the other transistor will ring tomorrow One middle transistor under full load will be supplied with 60V for example while the outer transistor will be supplied with 58.9
That will effect both Bias of transistor and temperature , ability of current handling
Also having small parallel cables to feed from a huge power supplies is a wrong practice rails will polute each other and both of them will polute ground
there is no point on having 100A transistors , 60A power supply and cables that in static conditions can handle an absolutely max of 20A
Yamaha for example used twisted cables for rails to avoid that , kept the ground outside of the twist and all that for an amplifier that was 120W not 600W
48 cm PCB with transistors placed below and above on the heat sink will take like 3 years to stabilise operating temperature and one way or another the upper transistors will be more warmed up because the temp added by the lower transistors .
here is why this thing s happening :
European kid that designed this amplifier hasent done his homework in history and created a machine that has problems that other people solved in the 80's
simply this guy in the 80's he wasnt even an idea .....
welcome to 2025 and be ready to see more than that
My friend .... this is a public place ...every one has the ability to place his opinion
so we did
lets leave this here .....
I will just pin point one hint for you ......
Recently one amplifier come to me for repair . European Brand heavy name big box tagged 5 figures number .
Amplifier was damaged by the client by accident .
what i have seen was a design that had a typical clasaAB amplifier , a huge power supply typical mosfet design , with a very lengthy PCB 48cm , and three small tiny cables that supplied from this huge trafo and PSU to the middle of the board .
So what is wrong with that .....
To supply in the middle to a 48 cm PCB you need beefy and thick PCB traces to disttribute power that will introduce parasitic oscillation capacitance and inductunce that is not necesery ( the Japanese used flat copper bars to solve this issue ) .
Then if you steal form the pcb to avoide these issues then you face the issue that on transistor will ring today and the other transistor will ring tomorrow One middle transistor under full load will be supplied with 60V for example while the outer transistor will be supplied with 58.9
That will effect both Bias of transistor and temperature , ability of current handling
Also having small parallel cables to feed from a huge power supplies is a wrong practice rails will polute each other and both of them will polute ground
there is no point on having 100A transistors , 60A power supply and cables that in static conditions can handle an absolutely max of 20A
Yamaha for example used twisted cables for rails to avoid that , kept the ground outside of the twist and all that for an amplifier that was 120W not 600W
48 cm PCB with transistors placed below and above on the heat sink will take like 3 years to stabilise operating temperature and one way or another the upper transistors will be more warmed up because the temp added by the lower transistors .
here is why this thing s happening :
European kid that designed this amplifier hasent done his homework in history and created a machine that has problems that other people solved in the 80's
simply this guy in the 80's he wasnt even an idea .....
welcome to 2025 and be ready to see more than that
Going back to the OP’s Q, I have a pair of Vandersteen IIce speakers I bought used. The speaker is specifically set up for bi-wiring. The manual specifically states to use the same wires for the hi and low end. No detailed technical reason is given, but I infer that it has to do with retaining the phase response of the speaker system. Richard Vandersteen believes phase response is key, which is why his speakers use the physically staggered drivers, and first order crossovers. I also understood that the company measures and sorts drivers, and uses various impedance compensation to help maintain the accuracy of the first order response and phase response. Mr Vandersteen often talks to customers on phone if he is available, and the company does respond to the two emails I have sent in the past, so I will send the company an email inwuiry about the basis for his recommendation on bi-wiring. I am not at all qualified to speak to the issue myself, and can only repeat what I’ve been told.
@olegtern....
Picture in your brain 5 of the most expensive amps in the world.
Had to repair 7 or 8 of this cast of amplifiers same brand one of the top most expensive on the world today.
Most issues was client produced any way repaired them in coordination and instructions from the manufacturer .
All fine at some point the designer come to meet me ....specific designer designed for them digital sources very successful and one integrated though the amps and amp boards are designed by the previous designer and owner of the company .
We had a very nice discussion you know engineers...talked about many issues repair procedures trouble shooting tunings according to their instructions and many more .
The designer aged 38 felt comfortable to talk about their new upcoming project amplifier that features some nice ideas.
We discussed power, outputs, pcbs, temperature and so on
At some point conversation goes to feedback ...in listen their approach and say to them o yes similar way it was done with NAKAMICHI stasis.
Designer said to me
NAKAMICHI? What is this ????
I look at him and say
Nothing just forget what I said......
Picture in your brain 5 of the most expensive amps in the world.
Had to repair 7 or 8 of this cast of amplifiers same brand one of the top most expensive on the world today.
Most issues was client produced any way repaired them in coordination and instructions from the manufacturer .
All fine at some point the designer come to meet me ....specific designer designed for them digital sources very successful and one integrated though the amps and amp boards are designed by the previous designer and owner of the company .
We had a very nice discussion you know engineers...talked about many issues repair procedures trouble shooting tunings according to their instructions and many more .
The designer aged 38 felt comfortable to talk about their new upcoming project amplifier that features some nice ideas.
We discussed power, outputs, pcbs, temperature and so on
At some point conversation goes to feedback ...in listen their approach and say to them o yes similar way it was done with NAKAMICHI stasis.
Designer said to me
NAKAMICHI? What is this ????
I look at him and say
Nothing just forget what I said......
@olegtern
Picture in your brain 5 of the most expensive amps in the world today .
From that brand I had to repair 7 or 8 of them .as said in coordination and instructions of the manufacturer .
The local distributor insisted that for every repair full set of measuring is to be done and filed to the manufacturer for approval .
Speed bandwidth bias slew rate dumping factor almost everything .
So i did ...
Seen bandwidth dropping after 10K wasn't impressed from the slew rate dumping factor was ok to my taste.
Understand that you cannot produce 400W amp @8R that is free both low and high that is risky ...you need to guard too much power .
I prefer smaller but much faster amps .
But that is persinal. In general I agree with yhe approach.
Though since I am a bustard didn't play their game their way
In one repair I send a measuring set that was from another amp
Slew rate was superb bandwidth exceeded 40K dumping factor was impressive all look 100% better than their amplifier ......
E mail come to reply after some days
Sakis curry on you have done a grate job..........
Picture in your brain 5 of the most expensive amps in the world today .
From that brand I had to repair 7 or 8 of them .as said in coordination and instructions of the manufacturer .
The local distributor insisted that for every repair full set of measuring is to be done and filed to the manufacturer for approval .
Speed bandwidth bias slew rate dumping factor almost everything .
So i did ...
Seen bandwidth dropping after 10K wasn't impressed from the slew rate dumping factor was ok to my taste.
Understand that you cannot produce 400W amp @8R that is free both low and high that is risky ...you need to guard too much power .
I prefer smaller but much faster amps .
But that is persinal. In general I agree with yhe approach.
Though since I am a bustard didn't play their game their way
In one repair I send a measuring set that was from another amp
Slew rate was superb bandwidth exceeded 40K dumping factor was impressive all look 100% better than their amplifier ......
E mail come to reply after some days
Sakis curry on you have done a grate job..........
I have to install system for a client worth 1.2 M in a 25 M apt.
2 huge mononlocks per side
2 speakers
1 pre
1 digital source
All same brand from the top brands in the world .
Calculate the loads and in total typically I am a bit above 6 KW if power used at 100% .
So I email the manufacturer asking how do you power all that?
Wall socket at least 16 A which is maximum ability is 3500W resistive load supplied by 2.5 mm cable.
I dont agree with that and offer my approach
10mm supply cable from main DB fused with porcelain fuse don't want electro mechanical vibrating contacts in such a system .
Cable arrives to living room to a local DB suppling again porcelain fuses 2 sockets per side 16 A each for Amps
5 sockets in the middle for sources and pre .
My email took more than one month to answer, has been forwarded to various ppl of the company since none of them seen or knew that porcelain fuses existed today for DB ......
After one month my email reached the main designer of the company , today 65 doing this for 40 years .....
His answer
We are on the same boat here Sakis please continue with your plans and provide information where can we get these fuses to use in our installations .
So chief ....please spare me the BS been doing this all my life
@olegtern
2 huge mononlocks per side
2 speakers
1 pre
1 digital source
All same brand from the top brands in the world .
Calculate the loads and in total typically I am a bit above 6 KW if power used at 100% .
So I email the manufacturer asking how do you power all that?
Wall socket at least 16 A which is maximum ability is 3500W resistive load supplied by 2.5 mm cable.
I dont agree with that and offer my approach
10mm supply cable from main DB fused with porcelain fuse don't want electro mechanical vibrating contacts in such a system .
Cable arrives to living room to a local DB suppling again porcelain fuses 2 sockets per side 16 A each for Amps
5 sockets in the middle for sources and pre .
My email took more than one month to answer, has been forwarded to various ppl of the company since none of them seen or knew that porcelain fuses existed today for DB ......
After one month my email reached the main designer of the company , today 65 doing this for 40 years .....
His answer
We are on the same boat here Sakis please continue with your plans and provide information where can we get these fuses to use in our installations .
So chief ....please spare me the BS been doing this all my life
@olegtern
@east electronics OMG, why did you write all that to me? I can't catch you... Some amplifiers are broken and wrongly designed, some clients with their kilowatts in trouble... what does it all have to do with what we started with? None of these wonderful stories is an argument for why suddenly EQ is garbage. Sir, pls write arguments regarding the thesis or don't tag me!
Has to do with inexperienced designers can do miracles in digital things but in reality they dont have any idea about sound ....
You are questioning Wilson approach or Focal for mechanical time alignment
Using the word marketing which has nothing to do with audio? And 90's idea ?
Fine with me
Bur remeber that these do the job without messing in the signal.
This is what you miss from all that .
You are questioning Wilson approach or Focal for mechanical time alignment
Using the word marketing which has nothing to do with audio? And 90's idea ?
Fine with me
Bur remeber that these do the job without messing in the signal.
This is what you miss from all that .
They don't and therefore distort the signal in the time domain (although this is generally normal). This is what you miss from all that .
Too much processing by default cannot do that ....when it does and you correct it digitaly then something you loose from the signal it's overprocessed and recomposed