I am considering this kit as an all-in-one solution to the problem of in-room bass response for a full range speaker (HiFi use only). I suspect it could give me Vandersteen-tier performance.
I like that you don't need to have two subs scattered around the room, or an in-line filter or DSP. Plus the 94dB sensitivity means I can use a cheaper amp.
Does anyone know of any pitfalls going down this path? GR Research's kits and speakers are highly rated and the designer seems to know what he is talking about.
https://gr-research.com/product/old..._subwoofer-jumper-set=Include+$75&zCountry=AU. (scroll for videos)
review:
I like that you don't need to have two subs scattered around the room, or an in-line filter or DSP. Plus the 94dB sensitivity means I can use a cheaper amp.
Does anyone know of any pitfalls going down this path? GR Research's kits and speakers are highly rated and the designer seems to know what he is talking about.
https://gr-research.com/product/old..._subwoofer-jumper-set=Include+$75&zCountry=AU. (scroll for videos)
review:
Having the ability to place subwoofers indepently will always unlock better in-room solutions. For the price-point i would rather split up the system, and use subs with dsp-capability.
However, for whatever reason, many people prefer a plug and play solution with two full-range speakers for stereo. It makes no sense to ignore this, even if compromises have to be made.
If your objective is high quality low frequency sound for music in the home then yes because it isn't addressing the dominant issue which is controlling the very strong room modes. In the home the only practical way to achieve this is with distributed subs and DSP which you aren't keen on. Studios have the option to also build rooms/buildings with massive amounts of acoustical treatment but this is rarely an option domestically.
This doesn't mean servo control of a sub can't bring improvements compared to a sub without but hearing it through a booming room is likely to be difficult and the benefits will be minor compared to that for a pair of sensibly configured subs of similar cost.
Errr... try checking a few threads here or on the more "objective" sites.
Thanks for the comments. I actually have a MiniDSP Flex, with 4 channel output but I'm not that thrilled with being stuck with the built in, low tier DAC. What are some other methods people use to include DSP along with your own choice of DAC, which doesn't involve wasted signal conversion?
Probably a fairly exaggerated sensitivity. We don't have specs on the tweeter but I doubt it's 94db by itself.
Danny is not a very respected person in many DIY circles, he leans hard into snake oil selling crossover mods with boutique components for crazy prices that have been proven to provide no really benefit over inexpensive components. He sells power cables with suggested burn in time and has even been caught suggesting that the color of outer sleeves on cables affects the sound. His analysis and filter design methods are widely outdated and the information he presents on his speaker and mods performance is misleading using heavily smoothed data.
I would compare GR's data with something like this VBS 10.2, which I'd argue is far more in depth and informative. This is what you should expect from a good DIY speaker.
https://www.mtg-designs.com/diy-speaker-plans/vbs-10-2
I would also make sure to read the international buyers message on this Bully speaker.
I would agree with the suggestion from others that you'll achieve much better low end integration by using separate subwoofers you can place in optimal positions. I built the Pit Viper speakers by Paul Carmody a year or so ago and while fun, they did have bass issues due to reflections and suboptimal LF transducer placement as you can't seperate the woofer from the mid. The Bully kit is also very expensive for what it is. If one MUST build a large 3 way speaker, the Pit vipers could be done for cheaper.
Thanks @wafflesomd . I have great stand-mount two way speakers (Proac). I'm trying to fill in the lower frequencies. I was intrigued by The Bully, but maybe my money would be better spent elsewhere.
How would you build a bass system around an existing standmount? I am flexible with my gear.
How would you build a bass system around an existing standmount? I am flexible with my gear.
Danny is a frequent punching bag for the objectivist crowd. I agree with the criticisms that his design methods seem to be out of date, however that doesn't mean the product isn't designed well and great sounding. There are designers on this board, who I have a lot of respect for, that listen to different crossover components and choose the best sounding. Can they actually hear a difference? I'm not sure, but their builds sound great.
I have used the midrange and tweeter in the Bully in a build that I entered and won last years under $300 category at the Speaker Design Competition in Dayton. One of the judges was Andrew Jones.
I have not heard the Bully but I have no doubt they will deliver bass that will meet your expectations. Are they the "best" value at that price point? Who knows. If you're looking for a big powerful sound they're probably an excellent contender.
Fwiw, I built a servo subwoofer in college and they have some impressive tricks up their sleeve.
I have used the midrange and tweeter in the Bully in a build that I entered and won last years under $300 category at the Speaker Design Competition in Dayton. One of the judges was Andrew Jones.
I have not heard the Bully but I have no doubt they will deliver bass that will meet your expectations. Are they the "best" value at that price point? Who knows. If you're looking for a big powerful sound they're probably an excellent contender.
Fwiw, I built a servo subwoofer in college and they have some impressive tricks up their sleeve.
This brings up another criticism of Danny, and that is he has fueled this sort of split of objective vs. subjective. It's a part of his business strategy to create a group of 'others' in which he can rally his fans against. Reality is both viewpoints are highly valuable and intertwined.
I heard those, I speculate that the large tweeter round over had a big part in the speakers perceived performance. It was immediately apparent to me that the speaker was rendering space/reverb tails more accurately than most. Congrats on the win.
When I first started building speakers, I used some GR woofers for my builds. The mid-range in the Bully is one of them that I used. They're really good for the price and generally easy to design a crossover for. But they distort easily and don't do well with loud volumes or low frequency content. If you don't mind some extra harmonic distortion, especially at higher volumes, then you could like these. Otherwise I would recommend a kit with scanspeak, Satori, or SB Acoustic drivers. My experience is that these 3 companies smoke the GR stuff.
Given the relativity of the $A and $US - still 65 cents despite recent events - and the very high shipping cost, I'd suggest something where you can source the parts locally. Otherwise, the shipping will cost more than the parts.
Peerless, Tymphany, Vifa, SB Acoustics and Dayton Audio are available here through LSK, Wagner and Digikey.
Something like Paul Carmody's "Tarkus" or "Pit Vipers" could suit your intended use and be way cheaper for you. Many builds of both, so you can get different opinions of their respective performance: spoiler alert, people love them. The Tarkus has been be built in one cabinet, too; pics in the attached link.
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/floorstanding-speakers/tarkus
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/floorstanding-speakers/pit-vipers
Geoff
Peerless, Tymphany, Vifa, SB Acoustics and Dayton Audio are available here through LSK, Wagner and Digikey.
Something like Paul Carmody's "Tarkus" or "Pit Vipers" could suit your intended use and be way cheaper for you. Many builds of both, so you can get different opinions of their respective performance: spoiler alert, people love them. The Tarkus has been be built in one cabinet, too; pics in the attached link.
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/floorstanding-speakers/tarkus
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/floorstanding-speakers/pit-vipers
Geoff
I liked the pit vipers, but I didn't love them. Big problem the have is a huge dip in the lower mids that aren't present in Paul's response he has shared on his site. There's a nearly 10db difference between 2k and 400hz. I'm also not sure why the d27 tweeter was chosen, it's just so so, especially on a wide baffle. I swapped mine out for an nd25fw, made a new xover, much cheaper and better performance, great match the mid driver.
Strange dip in the lower mids. Someone suggested it was because I offset the drivers so I remade the baffle exactly as the original design specified and the response was the same. One other person on youtube has measured the speaker and they also had the dip. This is the third speaker I've made of Pauls that had pretty big difference in actual response vs. his sim.
"I liked the pit vipers, but I didn't love them. Big problem the have is a huge dip in the lower mids that aren't present in Paul's response he has shared on his site. There's a nearly 10db difference between 2k and 400hz".
Point taken re Pit Vipers, I based my comments on other build reviews: however, I've never read a bad review of the Tarkus.
There are of course many other three ways which could be options. My point was that I don't think it's a good idea to spend more on shipping than parts, so I was thinking of builds which use Oz-available parts and several builds, so the OP Deedy can get ideas about their sound and quality.
Geoff
Point taken re Pit Vipers, I based my comments on other build reviews: however, I've never read a bad review of the Tarkus.
There are of course many other three ways which could be options. My point was that I don't think it's a good idea to spend more on shipping than parts, so I was thinking of builds which use Oz-available parts and several builds, so the OP Deedy can get ideas about their sound and quality.
Geoff
Thanks Geoff. I would only make a conventional stand mount speaker if it had an active sub with a high pass filter...and high sensitivity.
Do you know of any decent subwoofer builds using parts available in AU?
I'm not inclined to buy that kind of explanation. We have designers here who use out of date methods without being criticised for it.
The Tarkus is a floor standing speaker which, I think, digs deep enough to avoid the need for a sub and will play loud, if that's your thing. I'd love to build them, but don't need another pair of DIY speakers, plus there's WAF to consider.
LSK/Wagner sell some active sub woofer kits which should be good.
The last time I looked at buying parts from the US - a pair of tweeters - the drivers were US$50 and the shipping, US$65, hence my advice to buy locally.
Geoff
LSK/Wagner sell some active sub woofer kits which should be good.
The last time I looked at buying parts from the US - a pair of tweeters - the drivers were US$50 and the shipping, US$65, hence my advice to buy locally.
Geoff
I built a pair of these with my daughter for her apartment. They are a lot of fun. Not necessary the most refined speaker but they have decent imaging,, great dynamics and play pretty deep. The woofers play up pretty high (around 180 Hz) so I'm not sure separating them from the MTM would be ideal.
My daughter doesn't have a ton of room in her apartment living room, so having a single cabinet that can play down below 30Hz was ideal.
The cabinets are incredibly well braced with a 1.5" front baffle, 3/4" side and back panels, and a ton of internal bracing. Total weight for each speaker is about 100 lbs.
We built these with GR's upgraded crossover parts (good film caps bypassed with a miflex copper cap and nice heavy gauge copper air-core inductors). With the inexpensive class D monoblocks and Wiim Ultra that she is using, they sound pretty decent.
If you're looking for a fun speaker that can really crank out the tunes and is a bit forgiving, these are a good choice. They don't have the soundstage and clarity that Danny's NX-Oticas and NX-Tremes deliver, but they are a lot easier to place and take up a lot less room, and I think they are a fair amount more forgiving of the quality of the recordings and other components in your system.
My daughter doesn't have a ton of room in her apartment living room, so having a single cabinet that can play down below 30Hz was ideal.
The cabinets are incredibly well braced with a 1.5" front baffle, 3/4" side and back panels, and a ton of internal bracing. Total weight for each speaker is about 100 lbs.
We built these with GR's upgraded crossover parts (good film caps bypassed with a miflex copper cap and nice heavy gauge copper air-core inductors). With the inexpensive class D monoblocks and Wiim Ultra that she is using, they sound pretty decent.
If you're looking for a fun speaker that can really crank out the tunes and is a bit forgiving, these are a good choice. They don't have the soundstage and clarity that Danny's NX-Oticas and NX-Tremes deliver, but they are a lot easier to place and take up a lot less room, and I think they are a fair amount more forgiving of the quality of the recordings and other components in your system.
Rather than one or a pair of any of the Dayton sub amps sold by LSK I've started saving for a smallish Yamaha amp with DSP; cheaper and supposedly more reliable. The downside being the need for a separate crossover but I've found a Behringer CX unit on eBay for $149- including postage which is so much cheaper than an analogue pssive XO it's no longer a hard decision to make