I spent a few hours last night chatting with GPT and I think at the end of the year I want to do this build.
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ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/4851T 8" Woofer
ScanSpeak Revelator 12M/4631-G00 4.5" Midrange
ScanSpeak Revelator D2904/7100-03 1.1"
OSD Nero HTA7200
DSP -- To Be Determined
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I also have 18" subs in their own boxes.
The crossover points would probably be close to 60Hz, 400Hz, and 3,000Hz.
Thoughts and input, please? Should this be a solid build?
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--------UPDATED LIST--------
ScanSpeak Revelator 22W/4851T 8" Woofer
ScanSpeak Revelator 12M/4631-G00 4.5" Midrange
ScanSpeak Revelator D2904/7100-03 1.1"
OSD Nero HTA7200
DSP -- To Be Determined
--------------------------------
I also have 18" subs in their own boxes.
The crossover points would probably be close to 60Hz, 400Hz, and 3,000Hz.
Thoughts and input, please? Should this be a solid build?
--------OLD LIST--------
- ScanSpeak Revelator 26W/8861T 10" Woofer
- Scanspeak Illuminator 12MU/8731T-00, 4" Midrange
- ScanSpeak Illuminator D3004/6620-00 Tweeter
- OSD Nero HTA7200 (Hybrid amplifier)
- Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8
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Other than chatting with a (noob, sorry to say) AI and the drivers already defined, what are your design parameters?
Weird, I can't quote your post.
Design parameters -- do you mean goals?
Super low distortion, especially non-linear.
Relatively gentle sound, hence soft-material drivers -- and the hybrid amp.
High clarity, imaging, accuracy, etc.
Pretty flat response.
Good off-axis performance, and it seems that mine won't majorly fall off until around 15kHz.
Very good bass response to at least 60Hz, so I can cross to my subs and minimize localization.
I do not ever play my music very loud. Typically 60-70dB at 10ft, and sometimes I might reach 75-80dB.
But I'm here because, along with the AI, I am a noob. There are things I don't know to consider. 🙂
Design parameters -- do you mean goals?
Super low distortion, especially non-linear.
Relatively gentle sound, hence soft-material drivers -- and the hybrid amp.
High clarity, imaging, accuracy, etc.
Pretty flat response.
Good off-axis performance, and it seems that mine won't majorly fall off until around 15kHz.
Very good bass response to at least 60Hz, so I can cross to my subs and minimize localization.
I do not ever play my music very loud. Typically 60-70dB at 10ft, and sometimes I might reach 75-80dB.
But I'm here because, along with the AI, I am a noob. There are things I don't know to consider. 🙂
What sort of cabinet shape/size and driver positions? Enclosure type (sealed, ported, etc)
These are very expensive drivers and for a first build and design you are unlikely to realise their potential
I am a newbie myself, btw. In the middle of my first build and a good few lessons learned the hard way already (aka stupid mistakes)
These are very expensive drivers and for a first build and design you are unlikely to realise their potential
I am a newbie myself, btw. In the middle of my first build and a good few lessons learned the hard way already (aka stupid mistakes)
Your AI has told you nothing of value and so your first question lacks substance. Your box with speakers on it will sound like a box with speakers on it.
I think you should build it. Chances are you will enjoy your experience and you will learn from it. Over time you'll have the opportunity to try new ideas on it and eventually you will want to build something with direction you've learned along the way.
I think you should build it. Chances are you will enjoy your experience and you will learn from it. Over time you'll have the opportunity to try new ideas on it and eventually you will want to build something with direction you've learned along the way.
O.K., so what should I do to get substance? That's why I came here, but...
I'm not looking to build several speakers, I just want to do one-and-done basically. The closest design by a professional that matches my goal is Zaph's SB 12.3., but that's a passive design, and it seems to use lower-quality drivers.
Then also, almost everyone else uses ported designs, and I want sealed.
I'm not looking to build several speakers, I just want to do one-and-done basically. The closest design by a professional that matches my goal is Zaph's SB 12.3., but that's a passive design, and it seems to use lower-quality drivers.
Then also, almost everyone else uses ported designs, and I want sealed.
Passive can be converted to active with help from forum members.
Doesn't affect much in this context.
No problem.
Based on personal experience, push the midrange to 3 kHz, and give your tweeter a little more room. Very easy to do an LR4 with that mid and tweeter there.
Also, you can save a lot of money by going with a Dayton RSS RSS265HF on the woofer, AND you can use a much smaller cabinet.
Also, you can save a lot of money by going with a Dayton RSS RSS265HF on the woofer, AND you can use a much smaller cabinet.
One and done is a tall order. Usually we take what we learn from #1 and apply it to speakers #2, #3, and number #4. It's a long and very enjoyable learning curve.
Regards,
Dan
If you are one and done, just build a kit (like me). You will have a much better result. If you're trying to save time and money, just buy used commercial speakers. The advice given to you is from people who are serial speaker designers/ builders. This is what they do. They are all about the journey - not the destination. Knowing who you are and what you want will help you make the right choices.
Very well said.
I'm a big fan of Troels Gravesen. Pick one of his proven designs and make it active?
ScanSpeak Revelator-851
Regards,
Dan
P.S. There's a minimum of five before you're serial? 🤣
Seems to be a waste of a fine woofer just to be crossed at 60 Hz.
On the other hand, were it in an appropriately sized and tuned vented cabinet,
it would something of a true full range loudspeaker.
OP:
Yeah, like Lojzek not sure where the 60 AND 250 Hz comes from, but I have some data put together in my blog where I talk about picking crossover points for that midrange here.
The one thing I want you to consider first though is that this is an expensive build for a first timer. The issue isn't whether you can achieve success with these parts, but whether you know what you like to build. If your main goal is to get to a "high end" speaker with little outlay, then this is a way to do it, but if you are learning and want to try out different things then building a high cost speaker as your first is less helpful.
Consider for instance your tweeter. Lots of excellent tweeters are in the $50 to $100 range, some from Scanspeak. If you have had a chance to actually listen to the tweeters yourself you might find you don't want to spend an extra $200 for the difference in performance. Consider also many times listeners barely know when their tweeters turn off. I mean, yes, we should, but we spend way too much money on them given the amount of sound they actually produce.
Yeah, like Lojzek not sure where the 60 AND 250 Hz comes from, but I have some data put together in my blog where I talk about picking crossover points for that midrange here.
The one thing I want you to consider first though is that this is an expensive build for a first timer. The issue isn't whether you can achieve success with these parts, but whether you know what you like to build. If your main goal is to get to a "high end" speaker with little outlay, then this is a way to do it, but if you are learning and want to try out different things then building a high cost speaker as your first is less helpful.
Consider for instance your tweeter. Lots of excellent tweeters are in the $50 to $100 range, some from Scanspeak. If you have had a chance to actually listen to the tweeters yourself you might find you don't want to spend an extra $200 for the difference in performance. Consider also many times listeners barely know when their tweeters turn off. I mean, yes, we should, but we spend way too much money on them given the amount of sound they actually produce.
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The original post is exactly where I was mentally a few months ago. Being a lifelong audio/speakers fan I wanted to build a 'high end' speaker. One of the first thoughts was to use the best drivers.
But instead of just going for it I started to learn about speaker design, driver selection etc., experiences of DIYers and realised if I just buy expensive drivers and design and build something without knowledge I most likely will be very disappointed (with the speakers and with myself).
So I started a learning project and I am glad I did. Halfway through it, I already know it saved me a lot of money (on expensive drivers) and a lot of disappointment.
But instead of just going for it I started to learn about speaker design, driver selection etc., experiences of DIYers and realised if I just buy expensive drivers and design and build something without knowledge I most likely will be very disappointed (with the speakers and with myself).
So I started a learning project and I am glad I did. Halfway through it, I already know it saved me a lot of money (on expensive drivers) and a lot of disappointment.
That OSD Nero HTA7200 has 12v trigger, and that Dayton Audio DSP-408 4x8 does not seem to have 12v out/in, so you have to have some pre-amp with 12v control
If you don't need to play loud then take note that the distortion will probably be below your noise floor anyway.. This is my measurement of a $40____ 5.25" driver. I think it sounds great. I use it 80hz to 2.2k (approx). The speaker is sealed.
To put it in perspective, if the distortion is 50dB below the fundamental, and you are playing at 85dB, then the distortion would be at 35dB. ( 85-50=35 ) Your room noise floor is likely 6dB , or more above that.
I do like nice tweeters. I don't think I'm overly picky, but I have a couple favorites that cost around $80 to $100.
I think your choice of DSP would be very limiting, but I've not heard it myself. Actually, for low SPL, and carefully selected drivers, I think a passive x-over might be a better option. (I'm biased. I like playing with passive x-overs. )
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Your woofer choice is way outside my price range, but if the cost is not a problem for you, then spend the money, unless you find something significantly better for less. Overkill is not necessarily a bad thing.
The 12MU needs a higher XO than 250Hz acoustical.
In your shoes as you claim you are more wanting a one shot loudspeaker, I indeed will go with a ready developped Kit or a proven project from here or others sites. I am reassured at the view of ChatGPT choice, we are not going to be egged in the matrix for the moment !
Not sure the Dayton DSP is a good choice nough according the high end side you focus on. Look Maybe serious plate amps like Hypex ot Active filter DSP like Miniflex 8 channels for instance.
In your shoes as you claim you are more wanting a one shot loudspeaker, I indeed will go with a ready developped Kit or a proven project from here or others sites. I am reassured at the view of ChatGPT choice, we are not going to be egged in the matrix for the moment !
Not sure the Dayton DSP is a good choice nough according the high end side you focus on. Look Maybe serious plate amps like Hypex ot Active filter DSP like Miniflex 8 channels for instance.