I’ve been building speakers for 30 years. I’m a professional cabinetmaker, so I quite enjoy the construction process. I have zero interest in designing speakers. Back before kids I had some local friends and we collaborated on a few projects. They liked designing, I liked building. It was fun. I’ve lost contact with them and am wishing I hadn’t. I’m in Colorado, so if any of you are local-ish, I’d love to connect.
With winter coming, I have the itch to build a full range pair of speakers. Trying to decide what to build has me in paralysis by analysis.
With winter coming, I have the itch to build a full range pair of speakers. Trying to decide what to build has me in paralysis by analysis.
You're definitely not alone. Your listening habits, room size, type of amplification, what you currently use, all play a part.
Welcome to the forum BYW.
jeff
Welcome to the forum.
Understandable situation, but simplified overthinking is common for many when doing pre analysis
The classic tradeoff with true wideband or single speaker covering full range of audio.
For less high frequency distortion and slightly better off axis performance
Smaller drivers are suited for upper bandwidth
With a tradeoff of less bass and often lower sensitivity.
More bass and mid bass and higher sensitivity
Larger drivers are suited for lower bandwidth.
Tradeoff is high frequency tends to have rising response and less off axis performance.
Both work fine within reason.
Eventually you can just build both examples and decide for yourself.
Being a builder the aesthetics or look is likely majority of the fun.
And agree with that for sure.
I tend to lean towards larger drivers for single wideband.
Then Respecting the high end from smaller drivers.
That leads to 2 ways or acceptable wideband terminology is WAW ( woofer assisted wideband)
Where a woofer is added to make up for bass content.
Others a 2 way example for large wideband is simply a tweeter.
Understandable situation, but simplified overthinking is common for many when doing pre analysis
The classic tradeoff with true wideband or single speaker covering full range of audio.
For less high frequency distortion and slightly better off axis performance
Smaller drivers are suited for upper bandwidth
With a tradeoff of less bass and often lower sensitivity.
More bass and mid bass and higher sensitivity
Larger drivers are suited for lower bandwidth.
Tradeoff is high frequency tends to have rising response and less off axis performance.
Both work fine within reason.
Eventually you can just build both examples and decide for yourself.
Being a builder the aesthetics or look is likely majority of the fun.
And agree with that for sure.
I tend to lean towards larger drivers for single wideband.
Then Respecting the high end from smaller drivers.
That leads to 2 ways or acceptable wideband terminology is WAW ( woofer assisted wideband)
Where a woofer is added to make up for bass content.
Others a 2 way example for large wideband is simply a tweeter.
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I am a speaker designer and a horrible cabinet maker. I would say you need to decide four things.
1. What you want to spend.
2. What is the low frequency limit for this speaker.
3. How loud in dB at 1 meter are you looking for.
4. Do you want a wide dispersion speaker that bounces sound all over and sounds like the performance is in your room to do you want a narrow dispersion speaker ( wave guide or horn and larger midrange etc ) like many studio monitors that reduce the effect of the room on the sound.
You could look at Madisound or other places for documented designs.
For example my recent build has a 10" woofer, 3" midrange and 1" tweeter. It is 3 dB down at just below 40 Hz, will play with low distortion at 108 dB at one meter and has a very wide dispersion. As I'm not a good cabinet maker it looks sort of bad. I spent $150 on the woofer, $40 on the 12" passive radiator, $500 on a very good dome midrange and $85 on the tweeter. It actually has two of each driver, with drivers on both the front and back to form a bipolar speaker with an omni pattern.
1. What you want to spend.
2. What is the low frequency limit for this speaker.
3. How loud in dB at 1 meter are you looking for.
4. Do you want a wide dispersion speaker that bounces sound all over and sounds like the performance is in your room to do you want a narrow dispersion speaker ( wave guide or horn and larger midrange etc ) like many studio monitors that reduce the effect of the room on the sound.
You could look at Madisound or other places for documented designs.
For example my recent build has a 10" woofer, 3" midrange and 1" tweeter. It is 3 dB down at just below 40 Hz, will play with low distortion at 108 dB at one meter and has a very wide dispersion. As I'm not a good cabinet maker it looks sort of bad. I spent $150 on the woofer, $40 on the 12" passive radiator, $500 on a very good dome midrange and $85 on the tweeter. It actually has two of each driver, with drivers on both the front and back to form a bipolar speaker with an omni pattern.
I like designing but don’t like building. I have a cabinet maker in Chicago who does the cabinets for me.
He and I have done a number of projects together and I’ve posted detailed descriptions and articles at www.perrymarshall.info/speakers. Several of these projects link back to DIYaudio with even more details.
He and I have done a number of projects together and I’ve posted detailed descriptions and articles at www.perrymarshall.info/speakers. Several of these projects link back to DIYaudio with even more details.
Troels Gravesen also has a number of excellent designs to look at.
https://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
https://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm
Perry, I neglected to mention in my initial post that I also own a granite countertop shop. We purchased a monster CNC machine a couple years ago, so cutting complex shapes is trivially easy. Would that be a suitable construction material for something like the Bitches Brew? I’m guessing the budget for drivers and x-over components is more than I’d be willing to spend, but out of morbid curiosity, what’s the estimated total? Assuming that’s an appropriate question to as on my second post.
I have built Troels Graveson cabinets for a friend of mine near Denver. I am betting that a granite baffle would be a good choice for smaller designs (less expensive). Bracing and damping can be important as you already realize too. I would be interested to see what you come across that you would end up building.
Colorado has a land area of 103,610.1 square miles, so perhaps you could narrow it down a bit? 😉
I'm in sunny Californy-uh, but my best friend from college and her husband live in Peyton.
I have already been fantasizing about building the Bitches Brew or Live Edge Dipoles with granite or marble. YES that would be a perfect material.
Total drivers & electronics for Bitches Brew is a bit under $4K.
Total drivers & electronics for Live Edge Dipoles with Aluminum diaphragm on the Radian 5208 is around $2K. Beryllium is more.
Assuming MiniDSP Flex Eight for both systems.
Hi Tim, Don in Fort Collins here. If I were a pro cabinetmaker I'd be looking at classic folded horn designs. I love my Lascala midbass bins (sonically burnished to a sheen with DSP multiamping) and if I had not found a pair of used carcasses to adopt I would be seriously thinking about building some. Plans are readily available, as are tons of other vintage cabinet designs from EV, University, Jensen, etc. I've also acquired for pittances two pairs of vintage 3-way professional monitors with Altec/JBL-quality drivers that could be rehoused as "Cornscalas", Super Lascalas, or EV Sentry clones just to name 3 options, the sky's the limit. Buying used pro gear and rehousing the drivers and crossovers is an incredibly cost-effective approach to obtaining stellar results. Let legendary professionals of the past do your designing for free, including the tricky crossover design, or use ever more affordable active DSP multiamping approach to bring old drivers to top performance. Cheers!
Hey Tim, I am in Thornton. Don, I am most likely moving to Fort Collins in about 5 months.
I had a pair of LaScalas for a bit. They were pretty neat. Surprisingly, I have built a lot of amplifers but for some reason, those speakers agreed with a little Marantz 2218 that I also had at the time....
I have a pair of Bordeaux speakers by Speaker Design Works. If you guys are ever heading this way, let me know. Next will be a pair of Elsinore spekers. I need to track down some 1" thick sheet stock for those though...
I had a pair of LaScalas for a bit. They were pretty neat. Surprisingly, I have built a lot of amplifers but for some reason, those speakers agreed with a little Marantz 2218 that I also had at the time....
I have a pair of Bordeaux speakers by Speaker Design Works. If you guys are ever heading this way, let me know. Next will be a pair of Elsinore spekers. I need to track down some 1" thick sheet stock for those though...
Being a builder myself, it soon becomes a matter of space if you are not building for a customer. I would hate like crazy to put my present cabinets in the garage.
Cool, Mike. Be sure to DM me when you have settled in. You can come out to tour my crazy system and we can enjoy some tunes.
Tim: maybe check out the frugal horn speaker. I have not built it. At the very least, it is interesting to read about. There is also Nelson Pass's SLOB design which seems to have branched a few other designs and lots of driver testing. I get the whole speaker design thing. I am going to start dabbling into that aspect pretty soon. I have some extra drivers that behave with one another and some scrap ply.
Ixnay: speaking of solid materials, I just bought 1" Russian Baltic Birch from National Wood Products in Denver. Seems like pretty good stuff. I was planning on veneering my speaker project but I think I can get away with a nice birch finish.
111db: Absolutely! I was just in Fort Collins and Loveland the other day scoping it out. I will. Same to you. It sounds like we will have two system tours to do. 🙂
In the mean time, if you happen to head down to Thornton, let me know.
I was just in Fort Collins and Loveland the other day scoping it out.
Ixnay: speaking of solid materials, I just bought 1" Russian Baltic Birch from National Wood Products in Denver. Seems like pretty good stuff. I was planning on veneering my speaker project but I think I can get away with a nice birch finish.
111db: Absolutely! I was just in Fort Collins and Loveland the other day scoping it out. I will. Same to you. It sounds like we will have two system tours to do. 🙂
In the mean time, if you happen to head down to Thornton, let me know.
I was just in Fort Collins and Loveland the other day scoping it out.
The Baltic birch ply that I sometimes get isn't as thick as what you describe, and comes in 5 X 5 sheets. Totally expensive, but then again, it reduces the amount of gluing, sanding, and everything else that accompanies making sides or even baffles for a cabinet. Most always, I find solid slabs of wood online to use for baffles. Once I even used some 1 1/2" thick countertop birch to make some really solid baffles.
I was originally looking for 1" MDF. So I contacted a local lumber yard and they called around to their suppliers and got back with National Wood Products. They do will calls and happened to have 4'x8' sheets of Baltic birch of varying thicknesses up to I believe 1 1/4".
The 1" sheet was $154. But when you consider that if you get clean pieces with no patches (or are careful with your cuts), then you don't have to invest in veneer which saves a bundle.
I saw your mention of having built Troels cabinets for people in Denver. Did you ever get a chance to assemble them and give them a listen? Troels is a pretty respectable designer.
The 1" sheet was $154. But when you consider that if you get clean pieces with no patches (or are careful with your cuts), then you don't have to invest in veneer which saves a bundle.
I saw your mention of having built Troels cabinets for people in Denver. Did you ever get a chance to assemble them and give them a listen? Troels is a pretty respectable designer.
Yes. I built three cabinets of two different Gravesen designs. All three were for a friend in Denver. The first set was small, but very heavy due to the internal design. The next two were floor standers that were also heavy due to the same thinking of internal cabinet design. An unusual amount of MDF was used for all of these cabinets. I will try and find some excerpts of the process.
