I have space to store 2 cabs. They should be able to be run from within this space locked into a dual opposed config or pulled out and arranged otherwise. This area is 4m wide, 50cm deep and 1m tall under desk area of a 4m x 2m x 2,4m booth. I think I can allow a pair of 18s under this desk. This booth will spend a lot of time on a 6m x 4m deck on a 6m boat and be open to salty air
This is a commercial project ina way as the craft or the pod will be for hire, or I might do a mobile CD/record shop when not on hire. Noise is not an issue, remote regional coastal town, can get away from residence and other water users. The craft is already built to survey, and now I am starting on the super structure and electrics
Power will be a pro grade class d module. These have integrated mains PSU and the design limits the power to 300wrms x 2 with either 8R or 4R. I can also either get the mono version of the same board, and this one does 600wrms/1400w dynamic into 4R
Power must be well-used. An arrangement of some lithiums and around 2kw of solar + an inverter generator to support that is feasible to me. I can series up in the bank to get to the minimum voltages needed for the universal PSU in the amp module. This bank will also run the main BLDC low speed cruise motor of the very efficient hulls
Would really appreciate some help in figuring out output potential based on the system power limitations. I am in sunny QLD and onboard volume would never be louder than safe levels, but the gear may get unloaded and transported for lil DJ gigs for lawn parties and such
https://www.wagneronline.com.au/attachments/Audio-Speakers-PA/sbacoustics/ROSSO-18SW800.pdf
This is a commercial project ina way as the craft or the pod will be for hire, or I might do a mobile CD/record shop when not on hire. Noise is not an issue, remote regional coastal town, can get away from residence and other water users. The craft is already built to survey, and now I am starting on the super structure and electrics
Power will be a pro grade class d module. These have integrated mains PSU and the design limits the power to 300wrms x 2 with either 8R or 4R. I can also either get the mono version of the same board, and this one does 600wrms/1400w dynamic into 4R
Power must be well-used. An arrangement of some lithiums and around 2kw of solar + an inverter generator to support that is feasible to me. I can series up in the bank to get to the minimum voltages needed for the universal PSU in the amp module. This bank will also run the main BLDC low speed cruise motor of the very efficient hulls
Would really appreciate some help in figuring out output potential based on the system power limitations. I am in sunny QLD and onboard volume would never be louder than safe levels, but the gear may get unloaded and transported for lil DJ gigs for lawn parties and such
https://www.wagneronline.com.au/attachments/Audio-Speakers-PA/sbacoustics/ROSSO-18SW800.pdf
EV Range Extender
I didn't know these things existed. The 72v 6kw would be perfect as the power plant side of a hybrid propulsion system for low speed cruise mode for the cat, but I can't see how to get 240v mains power from that for the audio so for the moment keeping booth power independent of craft power
Let's say I can fit 2kw of solar on the booth roof and awning charging a lithium bank and this below as mains step up
Step up inverter
I am finding it difficult to work out how much power bank would I need to maintain an average 96dB over the subwoofer band for booth internal SPL day and night without dropouts. I would need to build in enough lithiums to support that. These will be always on and run off this bank too
Shopping list
Exhaust fan
Ina meh face fan 10" 12v
2x 32" screens
Already acquired for the project
Amps, I have all of these on hand to use for subs, internal monitors and external mains
DSP 2-8
Roland MX-1
Roland DJ-202
Roland JD-Xi
Yamaha AG06mk2
Portage X30W-J
Akai FIRE
Tool battery charger
USB hub
I can add together the draw from all the peripherals, but a bit stumped on the amp draw to maintain that average 96dB day and night without any extra charging in good weather
But for cloudy days and when off loading the speakers to go loud, one of these as backup generator for charging and full power to the speakers or 12v RV style air-conditioning. I am thinking about getting another one of the 2x 300w modules, so I can have each sub on a bridged module. And the H/B modules powering the internal speakers from the 120w channel and external from the 300w channel. I may include switching to bring in an EL34 poweramp for quieter internal sessions
Backup/full output generator
This is a big project on a small semi retired budget and the lot of the boat side work is done and most fit out gear here ready to go on. Including things like premium 9" touchscreen GPS/sounder with 3D and side scan, which will run off a dedicated battery and solar charging. Project got halted as couldn't make sense of how to bring it all together with my DJ and sound system aspirations as well as regular use as a lil hire venture and family use
I guess finding the right subs is the key, and the recent discussions and an idea of marrying it all up frees me from the huge power requirements of the pro mobile drivers. And no reason why I can't supplement the 18s with a pair of JL 12W7 equivalents in tiny boxes tucked away somewhere and run off the generator with a larger amp when taking the larger cabs isn't practical, like for someone's deck or porch kind of thing
Can these Rossos give me 96db flat and clean down to 33Hz inside the booth without a large price and weight hit on the battery bank? With the front shutter/awning up and the front open, can this project like a horn as in the car discussions and provide a larger output due to the box ina box thing?
I think its a safe bet anyway and run on generator or when mains is available, the complete output of the 18" pair and the 12" pro mobile pair would be solid enough anyway. Dual opposed storage together with the quality work that I can do with creating a well sorted and insulated booth would make for a quiet and well dampened interior. Maybe some acoustic foam inside studio style
A pair of Rossos would be my next purchase if I have finally found the right sub drivers for my unique use
I didn't know these things existed. The 72v 6kw would be perfect as the power plant side of a hybrid propulsion system for low speed cruise mode for the cat, but I can't see how to get 240v mains power from that for the audio so for the moment keeping booth power independent of craft power
Let's say I can fit 2kw of solar on the booth roof and awning charging a lithium bank and this below as mains step up
Step up inverter
I am finding it difficult to work out how much power bank would I need to maintain an average 96dB over the subwoofer band for booth internal SPL day and night without dropouts. I would need to build in enough lithiums to support that. These will be always on and run off this bank too
Shopping list
Exhaust fan
Ina meh face fan 10" 12v
2x 32" screens
Already acquired for the project
Amps, I have all of these on hand to use for subs, internal monitors and external mains
DSP 2-8
Roland MX-1
Roland DJ-202
Roland JD-Xi
Yamaha AG06mk2
Portage X30W-J
Akai FIRE
Tool battery charger
USB hub
I can add together the draw from all the peripherals, but a bit stumped on the amp draw to maintain that average 96dB day and night without any extra charging in good weather
But for cloudy days and when off loading the speakers to go loud, one of these as backup generator for charging and full power to the speakers or 12v RV style air-conditioning. I am thinking about getting another one of the 2x 300w modules, so I can have each sub on a bridged module. And the H/B modules powering the internal speakers from the 120w channel and external from the 300w channel. I may include switching to bring in an EL34 poweramp for quieter internal sessions
Backup/full output generator
This is a big project on a small semi retired budget and the lot of the boat side work is done and most fit out gear here ready to go on. Including things like premium 9" touchscreen GPS/sounder with 3D and side scan, which will run off a dedicated battery and solar charging. Project got halted as couldn't make sense of how to bring it all together with my DJ and sound system aspirations as well as regular use as a lil hire venture and family use
I guess finding the right subs is the key, and the recent discussions and an idea of marrying it all up frees me from the huge power requirements of the pro mobile drivers. And no reason why I can't supplement the 18s with a pair of JL 12W7 equivalents in tiny boxes tucked away somewhere and run off the generator with a larger amp when taking the larger cabs isn't practical, like for someone's deck or porch kind of thing
Can these Rossos give me 96db flat and clean down to 33Hz inside the booth without a large price and weight hit on the battery bank? With the front shutter/awning up and the front open, can this project like a horn as in the car discussions and provide a larger output due to the box ina box thing?
I think its a safe bet anyway and run on generator or when mains is available, the complete output of the 18" pair and the 12" pro mobile pair would be solid enough anyway. Dual opposed storage together with the quality work that I can do with creating a well sorted and insulated booth would make for a quiet and well dampened interior. Maybe some acoustic foam inside studio style
A pair of Rossos would be my next purchase if I have finally found the right sub drivers for my unique use
Note, 2kw max panels can be fitted, but less will be better budget wise and more solar can go on the propulsion side. All the other stuff is pretty low draw, I wonder if I can get by on a very meagre 500w panel array and a pair of 100amp hour batteries in parallel? All the gear is at different supplies and having trouble calculating a total load if the list is always on in the booth and with that 96db internal SPL thing as must meet but not always at for a total self-sustaining internal music volume target and a surrounding polite sound stage
And then can let rip with the generator turned on, when used in an appropriate location or hire. The whole project is beyond the scope of this thread, but I really need to explore these 18s as I would rather spend on them and not waste the budget in trial and error and I need to start building this booth and arranging internal built ins as transverse structurals. For example, the front will be an awning flapping down. Opening this up will expose the counter, which is the sound desk. And this desk forms a brace for the booth. The same goes for the king single size padded bench along the back wall and overhead storage shelves. I am well versed at such construction
Pulled up on the beach, water rec craft and inflatables hire, selling new and pre-loved cuts on the playlist. Some small DJ and disco work and a good getaway would be a good way to get old. If you guys can, please help make it more than a dream
And then can let rip with the generator turned on, when used in an appropriate location or hire. The whole project is beyond the scope of this thread, but I really need to explore these 18s as I would rather spend on them and not waste the budget in trial and error and I need to start building this booth and arranging internal built ins as transverse structurals. For example, the front will be an awning flapping down. Opening this up will expose the counter, which is the sound desk. And this desk forms a brace for the booth. The same goes for the king single size padded bench along the back wall and overhead storage shelves. I am well versed at such construction
Pulled up on the beach, water rec craft and inflatables hire, selling new and pre-loved cuts on the playlist. Some small DJ and disco work and a good getaway would be a good way to get old. If you guys can, please help make it more than a dream
I should also add, the above project, and it's use in the field for me, is 'work'. At the moment, I am taking a turn full-time daddying our second child and putting all this together at the same time. What I do with messing around with sims and weird drivers and things is downtime. I dont trust my noob abilities to seriously judge and implement these drivers
Near enough with just one Rosso based on its HR 29 Hz Fb max flat BR sim, though requires a 406+ L cab to do it.
Yes, it will be a very crude BP6........
Attachments
Thanks for confirming that. I want to use a pair to iron out booth vibrations when used internally. Don’t really know if they can carry the effect to the booth structure but can’t hurt and the output of two cabs would be welcome under generator power for hire outs
My better and duskier half fully supports this project 🥰
Only 1w would be enough? That would be brilliant and will leave funds for higher quality power supply and internal audio. The ambience of tubes would be perfect and I have a 12v to tube PSU and the EL34 kit. Another kit and I would have the potential to get the subs on tube power too. With that kind of consumption, just one battery might be enough. This is getting better and better. I can have night time charging too by exploiting the roof exhaust and build a whirlybird type system to generate power. There is always wind here
Btw, I already have most of the required permits and have been able to successfully get things like DIY boats and trailers passed for previous projects. I follow design standards by the book
I can see potential for a bit less crude by carefully designing the placement and interior. Loving where this is going
GM
Would these 18s be good in TLs? I have 2000 odd litres under the 4m desk. Actually I might need to revise interior width to 3m and fit a 1m porch. Maybe
Found this simple pic online that sort of shows the GA. The counter has to be out the back facing the boat's rear deck when on board. Its front will mate up to the amenities and wheelhouse built onto the fore deck area of the boat
See the lil wheel at the towing point. They are called jockey wheels and come in all sorts of duty, including electric assist. I think I will make the booth 2.5-3m long instead of 4 and use a pair of heavy-duty jockey wheels permanently fitted to one end of the cabin and another pair to the other end but with electric assist. A simple servo and turning system and I can drive the whole thing with remote off the flat bed trailer and into position and up a ramp onto the boat deck as well. These things are already built salt resistant and feature locking mechs and things on the wheels
That forms a feasible plan of attack that will be economical and easy DIY using prefab panels and a welded aluminium frame. With touches like instead of paint or finish work, a layer of teak decking look marine EVA covering the external walls for a tki look and added insulation and flotation for the survey
The counter and window will be semi wrap around. The back of the booth will be road legal 2m wide, so the counter top will be 2m wide and 1m deep and the counter will be 1m off the floor. The wrap around window will be counter deep and sliding glass doors on both sides. The back of the booth will have a 2m wide bench about 90cm deep and 50cm off the floor with a padded top. I might make the counter less deep so can have the space for a small office chair
If I can pull it off in the 2.4-3m length, I can store this on my 'tiny' home front porch and basically add a new studio room to the place!
That's pretty much it for the booth general arrangement. The subs will be stored under that 2m wide counter. I want to start with having them back to back and facing the side walls. The under counter area will be screened to prevent folks from looking up my shorts, so the subs will be able to fire internally through the fabric screen or externally and be shown off by some mirrors on the side walls. The mains would be on the counter corners and fitted to the counter top. I can incline the roof so that the booth forms a horn if this can be exploited
Now we have a basic layout and a location for the subs. Being back to back and locked into position, they should help stabilise the counter area and the load lines should extend to the side walls somewhat. I think I will have another pair of 12" subs under the bench and also back to back. This will let me carry two sets of subs that can work together or separately and a great way to store them while being able to make use of them
Ok, so the drivers will work and a 10w+10w el34 amp might be enough to driver all the subs for that internal average 96dB volume. The whole thing just comes together gorgeous and simple to execute
I picked up a pair of 12" trailer wheels with axle in great condition. The wheels and tyres are as new. I don't need the 18s right away. I can use a pair of drivers from the current 7" z623 subs and fit a box under the counter to start off with. They are my current mini-PA subs anyway and another pair of subs on board in an even smaller size won't hurt for hire use and such
Time to get building. The hulls have been sitting on a trailer on the road for almost a year and half waiting for me to recover from a serious leg injury and to find some direction for the project. I believe this is a legitimate pro PA project and well-thought-out, and has great potential for having a set of hire and sale items that can attract and create interest in folks passing by. I have a permit application for operating the boat/booth commercially from the beach at the sailing club and we locals work together. I already have the permit for operating on the water and mooring. There is a beachfront canoe and jetski hire too. This area of the beachfront has plenty of locations for food trucks and such and holds markets once a week and another on the other end of the beach on another day in the week. Lots of potential to fit in with some low volume easy reggae and dub. I bet the curry wagon who is a fellow country man and the coffee kart will find spots close by 🙂
This is the family project now. Everyone is excited and looking forward to it. I'll start building this on the porch. I just realised that I can recces the small trailer wheels with care and then not need all those jokey wheels. a fold up draw bar and an electric assist jockey on that will be all needed. It gets better and better and time to do a feasibility study with a closer look at wheel arches and folding draw bar. Build of materials and such. It helps having a trade card at the hardware, electrical supplier, 4WD and trailer parts place and Ali as of last week too. Apparently I get so many of the marine rec stuff in multiples that now I get offered most items in the full catalogue at wholesale. Even on just a single qty for more expensive items
I'll explore the drivers here further before buying any
Time to get building. The hulls have been sitting on a trailer on the road for almost a year and half waiting for me to recover from a serious leg injury and to find some direction for the project. I believe this is a legitimate pro PA project and well-thought-out, and has great potential for having a set of hire and sale items that can attract and create interest in folks passing by. I have a permit application for operating the boat/booth commercially from the beach at the sailing club and we locals work together. I already have the permit for operating on the water and mooring. There is a beachfront canoe and jetski hire too. This area of the beachfront has plenty of locations for food trucks and such and holds markets once a week and another on the other end of the beach on another day in the week. Lots of potential to fit in with some low volume easy reggae and dub. I bet the curry wagon who is a fellow country man and the coffee kart will find spots close by 🙂
This is the family project now. Everyone is excited and looking forward to it. I'll start building this on the porch. I just realised that I can recces the small trailer wheels with care and then not need all those jokey wheels. a fold up draw bar and an electric assist jockey on that will be all needed. It gets better and better and time to do a feasibility study with a closer look at wheel arches and folding draw bar. Build of materials and such. It helps having a trade card at the hardware, electrical supplier, 4WD and trailer parts place and Ali as of last week too. Apparently I get so many of the marine rec stuff in multiples that now I get offered most items in the full catalogue at wholesale. Even on just a single qty for more expensive items
I'll explore the drivers here further before buying any
An EL34 uses ~12watts at idle, compared to almost nothing for a class D.
At 96dB, the tube would be using about 12 times the power the sub.
If you are chasing efficiency, tubes are not useful, unless you need the heat.
Definitely no to both heat and efficiency loss. What about instead in the small signal stages? A pair of 6n5P would look impressive ina display resembling 300b tubes and I can mess with them in cascade and with some circuits mods to flavour the front and subs to pass to the class d amps?
I'm not familiar with the 6n5P.
Most of the "tube sound" is in the pre-amp stage.
Lots of the guitar and bass amps I've liked use 12AX7.
Just tried cascading a pair of ART Tube MPs and could get a decent overdrive, not quite enough gain from a guitar to get much "tube sound" without using the second.
The Hagerman Overdrive 12AX7 Tube pedal looks like it could be a nice front end with decent tone controls:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0106/7515/9102/files/Overdrive.pdf
Most of the "tube sound" is in the pre-amp stage.
Lots of the guitar and bass amps I've liked use 12AX7.
Just tried cascading a pair of ART Tube MPs and could get a decent overdrive, not quite enough gain from a guitar to get much "tube sound" without using the second.
The Hagerman Overdrive 12AX7 Tube pedal looks like it could be a nice front end with decent tone controls:
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0106/7515/9102/files/Overdrive.pdf
Art there is some confusion of this tube designation. There are two completely different and non-interchangeable tubes types called 6n5p
I might have these
https://www.atma-sphere.com/en/resources-6as7g.html
This is the board and tube that I have
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...order_list.order_list_main.281.7da51802z822Xm
Seems like a power amp tube, but this circuit is supposed to be a preamp somehow. I haven't used it yet. I picked it up because it looks like the 300B tube and thought it would be a nice look and line conditioner type thing. For bass input, 5670 tubes all the way. 5670 tone controls as input gain cascaded into another 5760 preamp stage. Two input channels feeding a tone channel each and the pre as a summing amp. I want to try another pre stage before the tone stage to get the glinty tones
Bit of a conundrum with driver selection. Cant decided whether to design for a pair of 18s or 4x ZXI12.4Ds or a pair of each. Aim is to be self-sustaining with that average 96dB ability but also be able to let rip with the heavy bass dubs when on generator power and need subs that have the 'legs' to maintain composure. Expansive gamble to see if the ROSSOS have the legs to blast out from the deck to the beach when moored about 30m off waterline
I might have these
https://www.atma-sphere.com/en/resources-6as7g.html
This is the board and tube that I have
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...order_list.order_list_main.281.7da51802z822Xm
Seems like a power amp tube, but this circuit is supposed to be a preamp somehow. I haven't used it yet. I picked it up because it looks like the 300B tube and thought it would be a nice look and line conditioner type thing. For bass input, 5670 tubes all the way. 5670 tone controls as input gain cascaded into another 5760 preamp stage. Two input channels feeding a tone channel each and the pre as a summing amp. I want to try another pre stage before the tone stage to get the glinty tones
Bit of a conundrum with driver selection. Cant decided whether to design for a pair of 18s or 4x ZXI12.4Ds or a pair of each. Aim is to be self-sustaining with that average 96dB ability but also be able to let rip with the heavy bass dubs when on generator power and need subs that have the 'legs' to maintain composure. Expansive gamble to see if the ROSSOS have the legs to blast out from the deck to the beach when moored about 30m off waterline