Hmmm, well this is what I get for looking through the PE buyout section...
https://www.parts-express.com/Tymph...-Paper-Cone-Woofer-8-Ohms-299-2265?quantity=1
High efficiency (94.8 dB) 8" with a big honkin magnet for $17. I impulse-bought a pair. What am I planning to do with them? I dunno! Loud / Efficient vented 2-way (with active high pass)? Anyone else making plans for this woofer? I searched on here just a bit ago and didn't find much mention of it. Seems like an interesting driver for relatively cheap, let's taco bout it.
https://www.parts-express.com/Tymph...-Paper-Cone-Woofer-8-Ohms-299-2265?quantity=1
High efficiency (94.8 dB) 8" with a big honkin magnet for $17. I impulse-bought a pair. What am I planning to do with them? I dunno! Loud / Efficient vented 2-way (with active high pass)? Anyone else making plans for this woofer? I searched on here just a bit ago and didn't find much mention of it. Seems like an interesting driver for relatively cheap, let's taco bout it.
The Tymphany is indeed a steal! Though, you can't use the high spl if you want bass, below 90Hz it drops under 90dB. It's nice as mid for a big 3-way or for a top/sub combination, a stand-alone 2-way seems uderwhelming.
@piotr z: That looks good, ND and 3" VC for that money is really rare. I wonder why they don't have any measurements posted.
@piotr z: That looks good, ND and 3" VC for that money is really rare. I wonder why they don't have any measurements posted.
That one does look quite appealing! But it was not quite an impulse-buy.
Yes, in true pro-audio style it has a rather high Fs and low Q, so it's rolling off early. I have a sub, and DSP available, so I'm pondering should I leave it sealed and apply boost? Or an EBS with high-pass + boost? I'll have to measure and model and see what the situation looks like. Or maybe it really wants to be a big mid.
What tweeter would you match with it?
No, just build a top with a ("too low") fb below 100Hz and profit from the excursion reduction of the port without most of its drawbacks. Being a mid would be the main purpose of the driver but you don't have to use it that way.
Well, PE is probably the main source for your needs but can you order from Thomann as well? Not a neccessity, just trying to expand the spectrum, though PE already got a very wide selecton and also very good prices.
I purchased a couple of both the Tymphany 8's and Maxo 12's when PE first listed them. Paid almost double that for the Tymphany's when I bought them. I haven't done anything with them yet. Just had a few thoughts to share and wanted to join the discussion. I think the Tymphany's are really nice. Good build quality, huge magnet(for an 8"), and a lot smoother top end than a lot of other 8" pro woofers. The Maxo's seem... ok. T/S specs measured with a DATS V3 come pretty close to what PE has listed. They just feel and look cheap. The treated paper cone and dust cap are 🤮
BassBox Pro vented box suggest engine thinks 18 L vented at 62 is enough, and yeah they're leaving the party at 80 or 90 Hz. But if we push box size up to 30 L we can work that port harder, and then it looks flat down to 70 and -3 in the mid 50's (vent still at the same F). That's high enough to leave plenty of bandwidth unloaded, but protect it with a high-pass and give it a sub I think it will allow for hella output in a domestic situation. Bigger box allows for a larger port diam, also. 👍
Thirdicomplex, you been considering any tweeters particularly for them?
I did a smaller speaker about trying to make a good cross for a piezo and it actually worked pretty well. See https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/trying-to-get-the-best-out-of-cheapo-piezos.409639/ Maybe I'll try one of these larger piezos with it... https://www.parts-express.com/CES-1025-3-x-7-Wide-Dispersion-Piezo-Horn-Tweeter-299-220?quantity=1 PE page says it's good down to 1.8k, but I think I'll have to measure it to believe it. We'll see, it might have to be a real compression driver.
Thirdicomplex, you been considering any tweeters particularly for them?
I did a smaller speaker about trying to make a good cross for a piezo and it actually worked pretty well. See https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/trying-to-get-the-best-out-of-cheapo-piezos.409639/ Maybe I'll try one of these larger piezos with it... https://www.parts-express.com/CES-1025-3-x-7-Wide-Dispersion-Piezo-Horn-Tweeter-299-220?quantity=1 PE page says it's good down to 1.8k, but I think I'll have to measure it to believe it. We'll see, it might have to be a real compression driver.
Most likely going to use a pair of RCF N350's. IMHO, these deserve something better than a piezo.
Hmm, good on ya if you already got em. They look like $150 here https://usspeaker.com/rcf n350-1.htm and NLA at other places.
Maybe Lavoce DF10.101LS, crossed around 2k...
https://www.parts-express.com/LaVoc...ession-Driver-1-3-8-18-TPI-293-768?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/LaVoc...ession-Driver-1-3-8-18-TPI-293-768?quantity=1
Some things might have a different price, some probably aren't available, it's just to check some alternatives. Maybe I can get an alternative. Not that PE is bad at all but having a different set of alternative brands and drivers can never be bad. I just didn't want to suggest something you can't get. 😉
Mine are used pulls that I got for far below retail. Check the Swap Meet section, I've seen some good deals on compression drivers pop up recently.
Well elsewhere in the PE buyout bin is Celestion CDX1-1446, also $17, so it looks like fate!
https://www.parts-express.com/Celes...-Compression-Driver-8-Ohm-299-2257?quantity=1
Otherwise $59, so seems like a deal. Page says 2.2k 2nd order which seems like it will fit with the Tymph tho I might wish to push it a bit lower? We'll see what the situation looks like when I make my own measurements.
I'm no expert at pairing horns to CDs, I bought these Selenium HM17-25.
https://www.parts-express.com/Selen...al-Horn-60x40-1-3-8-18-TPI-264-308?quantity=1
We'll see what happens...
https://www.parts-express.com/Celes...-Compression-Driver-8-Ohm-299-2257?quantity=1
Otherwise $59, so seems like a deal. Page says 2.2k 2nd order which seems like it will fit with the Tymph tho I might wish to push it a bit lower? We'll see what the situation looks like when I make my own measurements.
I'm no expert at pairing horns to CDs, I bought these Selenium HM17-25.
https://www.parts-express.com/Selen...al-Horn-60x40-1-3-8-18-TPI-264-308?quantity=1
We'll see what happens...
DATS V3 measurement of my AULA02014 samples, for the record:
So that looks a couple dB lower on sensitivity (92.25 vs 94.8) relative to PE reported spec. Qts about the same. Less Le (0.08 vs 0.18).
Impedance sweep makes the inductance look low, but we see kind of a bunch of bumps going up in frequency from 500 Hz.
| 1 | 2 | |
D | 164 | 164 | mm |
SPL | 92.25 | 92.22 | dB |
Re | 5.635 | 5.681 | Ohm |
Fs | 68.1 | 69.78 | Hz |
Qts | 0.425 | 0.425 | |
Qes | 0.478 | 0.4766 | |
Qms | 3.835 | 3.92 | |
Le | 0.08653 | 0.0867 | mH |
Mms | 20.84 | 21.57 | g |
Vas | 16.43 | 15.12 | L |
So that looks a couple dB lower on sensitivity (92.25 vs 94.8) relative to PE reported spec. Qts about the same. Less Le (0.08 vs 0.18).
Impedance sweep makes the inductance look low, but we see kind of a bunch of bumps going up in frequency from 500 Hz.
I've never seen a clean impedance sweep, like in datasheets, using my DATS. I wouldn't worry about those little bumps. And I think the sensitivity discrepancy is due to DATS using 1w/1m based on Re.
A great number of impedance graphs are smoothed. There are a lot of resonances but if they only show up in the impedance and the frequency response and not in decay and distortion, I'd just ignore them - except if the FR peak is too dominant.
There's nothing wrong with Woofer Tester/DATS; it just takes an excellent driver to have a FLAT (low inductance design) and SMOOTH (free of resonances) impedance sweep.
eg. Not flat but smooth:
Flatter. Green: free air (reasonably smooth). Orange: in cabinet. (resonance at 300Hz) Blue: In cabinet with fiberglass fill. (smooth- resonance dampened)
Flat and reasonably smooth (some resonances)
Having said that, the Tymphany impedance sweep is typical of a driver with demodulation control (flat) and but lightweight paper/pulp cone (multiple minor resonances). Upside is high sensitivity and low distortion.
eg. Not flat but smooth:
Flatter. Green: free air (reasonably smooth). Orange: in cabinet. (resonance at 300Hz) Blue: In cabinet with fiberglass fill. (smooth- resonance dampened)
Flat and reasonably smooth (some resonances)
Having said that, the Tymphany impedance sweep is typical of a driver with demodulation control (flat) and but lightweight paper/pulp cone (multiple minor resonances). Upside is high sensitivity and low distortion.
Attachments
Well I was playing with some other projects, but now I'm back to this one. I'll probably start a different thread for the speaker I'm making, and leave this one just for the driver(s). This is an incomplete box, the back is open, so we see odd shapes at lower frequency (but I think mid / highs should be showing correctly). I was testing if the baffle was going to give me the phase relationship I wanted (looks good). But I thought I'd post the FR / THD here for anyone interested. I'll post an improved measurement when I get the boxes finished up and the woofer FR is looking more correct.
Woofer, AULA02014
Wobbles sub 1khz are prob open baffle resonances. Flat-ish 1k to 2.5k then breakups higher looks like the PE reported FR. 2nd harmonic (red) dominates THD (black) and is higher than I'd like 3k-6k but hopefully that will be out of band for me. LF THD performance will depend on getting the box functioning correctly, so better info to come... Maybe I'll do a nearfield for LF performance.
Tweeter, Celestion CDX1 with horn JBL / Selenium HM17-25
2nd harmonic! I mean it could be worse, it's 40ish dB down, and 2nd isn't too bad. Higher orders are down from that, so that's good. Tipped BL field, I wonder? FR is good, I'm pleased with that.
Absolute level is not calibrated. These measurements are ground plane with the speaker tipped down to bring the mic on-axis. 72-ish inches mic distance. I forgot to grab the stimulus level, not real high.
- A
Woofer, AULA02014
Wobbles sub 1khz are prob open baffle resonances. Flat-ish 1k to 2.5k then breakups higher looks like the PE reported FR. 2nd harmonic (red) dominates THD (black) and is higher than I'd like 3k-6k but hopefully that will be out of band for me. LF THD performance will depend on getting the box functioning correctly, so better info to come... Maybe I'll do a nearfield for LF performance.
Tweeter, Celestion CDX1 with horn JBL / Selenium HM17-25
2nd harmonic! I mean it could be worse, it's 40ish dB down, and 2nd isn't too bad. Higher orders are down from that, so that's good. Tipped BL field, I wonder? FR is good, I'm pleased with that.
Absolute level is not calibrated. These measurements are ground plane with the speaker tipped down to bring the mic on-axis. 72-ish inches mic distance. I forgot to grab the stimulus level, not real high.
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Ach, the Tymph AULA driver seems to be NLA, and I am too slow to have made anything out of it before it has left us. I am working on the box now, it is coming along. Hope to get the box buttoned up over the holiday break. But here are some near field measurements for posterity, or if someone has ordered the driver and hasn't the capacity to measure it themselves.
If you're looking at this and don't already know, use the nearfield measurement to inform you about the low frequency performance, and the far field measurement (above) to tell you about high frequencies.
This is nearfield with THD. Brown is noise floor, black is THD, red is 2nd harmonic. Orange is 3rd, yellow is 4th, green is 5th. There's a little peak just above 2k but that's where the FR dip is. That dip isn't present in the far field measurement (post 19), so no problem.
I do see a little discontinuity at 600-700 Hz. I thought it might be a leftover bit of floor bounce, but I changed the speakers elevation and it didn't move. Wondering what it was, I changed the mic location in case it was a near field phenomenon. That moved the 2k dip around, but 600-700 Hz was unchanged. Next I stuffed a paper towel in the pole vent, and that changed it.
So we'll have to see how present it is in the end product. Has anyone encountered a similar resonance? Did you feel a need to do anything about it? It doesn't look bad here, but this graph has 90 dB vertical range to show distortion traces.
- A
If you're looking at this and don't already know, use the nearfield measurement to inform you about the low frequency performance, and the far field measurement (above) to tell you about high frequencies.
This is nearfield with THD. Brown is noise floor, black is THD, red is 2nd harmonic. Orange is 3rd, yellow is 4th, green is 5th. There's a little peak just above 2k but that's where the FR dip is. That dip isn't present in the far field measurement (post 19), so no problem.
I do see a little discontinuity at 600-700 Hz. I thought it might be a leftover bit of floor bounce, but I changed the speakers elevation and it didn't move. Wondering what it was, I changed the mic location in case it was a near field phenomenon. That moved the 2k dip around, but 600-700 Hz was unchanged. Next I stuffed a paper towel in the pole vent, and that changed it.
So we'll have to see how present it is in the end product. Has anyone encountered a similar resonance? Did you feel a need to do anything about it? It doesn't look bad here, but this graph has 90 dB vertical range to show distortion traces.
- A