Opps.mundorf caps way to saturated. Changed to audyn tri ref.now listening to music. Does one need a silken sounding smp to make a teeeter sound silken.i guess one does.tweeters dont work in isolation.
Hey Rob,
Yes. I wish I had the sponsorship and fame of Troels Gravesen, but I don't so I can't say I've done any sort of controlled study in my laboratory. 🙂 I've heard Be tweeters from Focal, Magico (ScanSpeak), Transducer Labs. The TL was in a Fritz design, and I have loads of respect for him and his finished products.
Of them all the Magico was the smoothest, least noticeable but also had really saturated highs and overall cool. This could have been in large part due to the crossover tuning as well as the use of top of the line Mundorf caps.
The TL sounded edgy and hard, and Focal's have always said LISTEN TO ME!! I'm BERYLLIUM!!!
With the Fritz design I've been able to hear similar boxes with other top of the line SS tweeters and really preferred them by a lot. I wish I could say I've had a chance to listen to the SB Acoustics models which at least on paper look phenomenal.
Right now though based purely on coolness factor, brand and dimensions I'd be looking at the latest ScanSpeak Textreme tweeter. What excites me about this tweeter is the extension, excellent response, and small diameter baffle. Usually small diameter tweets are compromised in low end, or with a poor FR but this one is really impressive. Plus of course the woven carbon fiber. 🙂
Hi, yes it is. I was referring that it's not the only way to make a three way system.
Just repeating comments found throughout many many Threads & posts ....
Using your 'budget/cost', Vifa tweeters have a near unbeatable reputation for great 'clear & silky sound' + low distortion 🙂
What my ears have been telling me as of late while prototyping with the Heil AMT 1 is that this just might be the best tweeter I’ve ever heard. There’s an ethereal quality in the mid to far field that makes my testing space feel larger and more open than it is……like I’m outdoors. Pardon the expression and it’s not as profound as that but it is something…….i‘ve NEVER had a dome, AMT, ribbon or CD do this.
Heil AMT 1 has dipole pattern doesn't it? Did the others you've listened have dipole pattern?
Depending on positioning dipole pattern reduces early reflections, which might be the connection to feeling of listening outside. Early reflections seem to have effect to nail the speakers into the room with too long listening distance. Just speculating.
Depending on positioning dipole pattern reduces early reflections, which might be the connection to feeling of listening outside. Early reflections seem to have effect to nail the speakers into the room with too long listening distance. Just speculating.
I've never heard the original Heils, but the Mundorf AMT's are very expensive and also very good. I've also heard AMTs in Golden Ear speakers and ouch.
My point is just that the AMT concept may be good, but the execution really varies. I know a lot of fans here for the Beyma versions for instance.
My point is just that the AMT concept may be good, but the execution really varies. I know a lot of fans here for the Beyma versions for instance.
No apparent love for Fostex bullet tweeters here. I hope I won't be too disappointed with what i end up with. At this point I can only put my trust in my builder and enjoy the music, as they say.
Perhaps some lovers are on other forums, have you checked out elsewhere?
From technical perspective bullet tweeters in general look to me as expensive legacy technology from age before computer design and off-axis measurement and cheap power amplification. Measurements show it's not a good waveguide and diffracts quite a lot and today we can do much better. Since it also beams you must listen it on-axis so the diffraction makes power response peak around the 7kHz on-axis dip. This would matter to me because I know what I need for my system, I don't want to listen on-axis because I have two sweetspots and I need ~constant directivity to optimize the system. I remember Joseph has made better tweeter waveguide in past and could likely do one for this as well, but seems not to, perhaps it doesn't matter in the end, at least in some use case / context. I don't know the system or filters used, or your context so perhaps my comments are irrelevant. Perhaps he made it work fine with on-axis dip and smooth power, or something else to compelte a good sounding system.
Disclaimer: my perspective to the loudspeaker hobby is not hoard the expensive legendary drivers, but to get deep into studying what is my application and how to make best sound for it, so this is why I do not understand the appeal and perhaps wrong person to comment on bullet tweeter, never even heard one. It feels reverse process to me to use best driver x before knowing what is actually needed from the system, because when one finally knows what the system must be it could be completely different drivers (the whole system) needed. I bet there are many people who are fond of such things and have experience on them, so my perspective is just one of many. Wanted to give you honest opinion though, but it's nothing more than that, an opinion from an internet person looking at things from completely different perspective.
From technical perspective bullet tweeters in general look to me as expensive legacy technology from age before computer design and off-axis measurement and cheap power amplification. Measurements show it's not a good waveguide and diffracts quite a lot and today we can do much better. Since it also beams you must listen it on-axis so the diffraction makes power response peak around the 7kHz on-axis dip. This would matter to me because I know what I need for my system, I don't want to listen on-axis because I have two sweetspots and I need ~constant directivity to optimize the system. I remember Joseph has made better tweeter waveguide in past and could likely do one for this as well, but seems not to, perhaps it doesn't matter in the end, at least in some use case / context. I don't know the system or filters used, or your context so perhaps my comments are irrelevant. Perhaps he made it work fine with on-axis dip and smooth power, or something else to compelte a good sounding system.
Disclaimer: my perspective to the loudspeaker hobby is not hoard the expensive legendary drivers, but to get deep into studying what is my application and how to make best sound for it, so this is why I do not understand the appeal and perhaps wrong person to comment on bullet tweeter, never even heard one. It feels reverse process to me to use best driver x before knowing what is actually needed from the system, because when one finally knows what the system must be it could be completely different drivers (the whole system) needed. I bet there are many people who are fond of such things and have experience on them, so my perspective is just one of many. Wanted to give you honest opinion though, but it's nothing more than that, an opinion from an internet person looking at things from completely different perspective.
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He uses Troy in the emails. I've never yet heard speakers with Altec 416 woofers, except a million years ago in VOTT speakers in cinemas. But was the performance description of this driver by tube amp designer Lynn Olson and Gary Dahl at Lynn's thread that compelled me to purchase them for a proposed build. When that proved impractical, they remained in storage until I met Troy at Lynn's thread. He had wanted to test the Altecs anyway and agreed to develop speakers using them which would hopefully please my ears as much as his. And because I first wanted speakers for home theater-but where the audio from DVD and even BD movies are often quite a ways from pristine-I had to gamble that an otherwise superb two design like this would not be the most appropriate; posts 15266, 15276 https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/beyond-the-ariel.100392/page-764 To give Troy an idea of the typical sound quality of my DVD and/or BD movies, I had him access 15 uncompressed WAV files of CD track rips for him to evaluate. While he didn't give anywhere the kind of detailed review of their sound as Pierre had, Troy said that on this system-which save for the backloaded horn and woofer driver is what he'd be building for me atop the Altecs-https://josephcrowe.com/products/speaker-system-no-2095
they all sounded "smooth".
My plan is to clone Pierre's speakers next year to be used primarily for my very good to superb quality recordings. But I need to finish this home theater build now, but where the only sticking might be the sound of the tweeter-NOT that I am any kind of experienced expert on selecting tweeters. I had asked Troy to also consider ribbons, AMTs and even dome tweeters in the appropriate waveguides-some of which he had originally proposed. But now either because he had them in stock and/or because he genuinely believes they would perform admirably, Troy insists on using the Fostex 900A. Again I must therefore rely on his expertise to "salvage" this problematic tweeter.
All I hoped for was some feedback from those here who might have heard any of these Fostex bullet tweeters-and also their evaluation of Troy's crossover/voicing filter and that wooden waveguide "lens" for the T900A tweeter, described in those two videos above.
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Yes, see video here from around time 7:58 to 10:43 where Troy shows how the waveguide improves the tweeter's the extremely important off-axis response and directivity pattern.
But what Troy didn't do or discuss here were any listening tests which would describe the tweeter's own tonality compared to that of other modern popular tweeters. That what's got me worrying.
I am perplexed you would spend this kind of money and effort for home theater speakers, especially with the quality of source discs. In fact, it's likely that movies will sound "better" with the usual home theater speakers than the Altec based horns.
These legacy bullet tweeters are not some magic transducers; they have their limitations and uses. I would pursue them if extreme high sensitivity was absolutely required for home theater for some reason, but if it were me, I would buy some usual reasonable home theater speakers for movies, maybe even used ones, and pay whatever Troy needs in order to come up with true heirloom-grade Altec-based horn system for 2-channel music. In the future, if need be, that will sell better also.