Do they measure anything like the Eris 3.5? 😵
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/presonus_eris3.5_mk2/
To the OP's original question: I used the RT2C-A planar drivers from Hi-Vi Research on a project that I have been listening to on a regular basis for two years. They do sound very accurate and natural to me. I don't have much experience comparing them to other tweeter brands/types/models and I don't have any measurements to show. My basis of comparison is live music and they do a very convincing job reproducing it. In my system they are crossed at about 2.5 kHz with an active 24 dB/octave analog XO. According to the data sheet the impedance is resistive and flat, and the phase response is linear which simplifies passive XO design if that's your thing. Frequency response graph is also quite smooth and flat from 2 kHz - 20 kHz. So after two years of listening, 3-4 days a week, to a wide range of music, I would certianly use them again on future projects and recommend them to others.
😱
It reminds me a bit of the smaller ELAC (which also has a small waveguide similar to the DXT), it’s almost like they are trying to make a bad speaker (perhaps to make their more expensive speakers sound better).
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no they are way flatter, 5-6 years ago i read just good about them (well, specially regarding the price of just 500€ for a pair)
E5 or E8 can be considered the serious entry models
https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/presonus-eris-e8-xt/conclusion -/+ 2db 40-20khz
i cant find measurements on a hurry for my old first generation model but it cant be that far off
Those E8 seem to have a significant peak around 10-20khz off axis. This would explain the perception of agressive treble if the E6 has the same tweeter and waveguide.
Check out the sound power
FWIW this is what happens when a tweeter and waveguide are not ideally matched. Its why the XT25 tweeters are so great in waveguides because their unusual design produces a wavefront that is more suitable for waveguides.
Check out the sound power
FWIW this is what happens when a tweeter and waveguide are not ideally matched. Its why the XT25 tweeters are so great in waveguides because their unusual design produces a wavefront that is more suitable for waveguides.
Speaking of which, would you agree that Troy Crowe truly managed to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear?
Please advise, as I may have no choice but to go with this tweeter very soon.
The Eris 8R is silk dome, no ? And has some setups knobs (to lower the tweeter spl level) ?
If not liked just sold it, less expensive thn tweak it. So if your needs is monitor, try to try in your budget by listening in shop some close two ways philosopy, also w/o wave guides : Dynaudio, PMC, Neumann. Maybe the studio listening curve is not what you like or at least merge bad in your listening room and listening distance ?
The brands above among many in the studio monitor pro world have good highs, but certainly differents.
If DIY, it is not so hard to make a 2 Ways monkey coffin monitor here, but the DSP or EQ of some studio monitors are very a plus imo.
If not liked just sold it, less expensive thn tweak it. So if your needs is monitor, try to try in your budget by listening in shop some close two ways philosopy, also w/o wave guides : Dynaudio, PMC, Neumann. Maybe the studio listening curve is not what you like or at least merge bad in your listening room and listening distance ?
The brands above among many in the studio monitor pro world have good highs, but certainly differents.
If DIY, it is not so hard to make a 2 Ways monkey coffin monitor here, but the DSP or EQ of some studio monitors are very a plus imo.
My advice is about spending money and finding good tweets.
First, I really think we tend to overspend money on tweeters. Like, by a lot. It's completely out of whack with the amount of sound they produce and the importance of the sound they produce. In many cases listeners wouldn't even know if the tweeter stopped working... truth be told. 🤣 OK, maybe that's an exaggeration.
As someone who has spent WAY too much money on them, I really believe there are a lot of really good affordable tweets. AMT's are problematic not because they aren't excellent but because the cheap one's can be garbage. On the other hand, excellent dome's can be had for bargain prices (relatively). I'm also partial to the full-sized ring radiators from Scan Speak R2604 or Peerless XT25 counterparts. Not the micro-motor versions. Amazingly smooth and extends way past 20k. You can find these models in a lot of high end speakers for a reason.
Also, personally I have learned to stop looking for magic with Be tweeters. They are either strident or splashy.
If you want color though, you might want to look into Mundorf's caps, I find them far too saturated to feel realistic, but so many fans.
First, I really think we tend to overspend money on tweeters. Like, by a lot. It's completely out of whack with the amount of sound they produce and the importance of the sound they produce. In many cases listeners wouldn't even know if the tweeter stopped working... truth be told. 🤣 OK, maybe that's an exaggeration.
As someone who has spent WAY too much money on them, I really believe there are a lot of really good affordable tweets. AMT's are problematic not because they aren't excellent but because the cheap one's can be garbage. On the other hand, excellent dome's can be had for bargain prices (relatively). I'm also partial to the full-sized ring radiators from Scan Speak R2604 or Peerless XT25 counterparts. Not the micro-motor versions. Amazingly smooth and extends way past 20k. You can find these models in a lot of high end speakers for a reason.
Also, personally I have learned to stop looking for magic with Be tweeters. They are either strident or splashy.
If you want color though, you might want to look into Mundorf's caps, I find them far too saturated to feel realistic, but so many fans.
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Hi,
in my experience this kind of issues are often some resonance somewhere that takes the attention. If you EQ for less treble it might help but now the treble is gone, tweak back up and it's annoying again. You must find and tame the resonance, or just get better speakers. This happens with bass as well, and I suppose the whole bandwidh.
Another kind of related issue with treble is edge diffraction, which makes response vary to all listening angles which makes kind of restless feel to sound. I mean the sound changes all the time as you move, it doesn't seem to be stable and is annoying in a way that it also kind of takes the attention, like there was no good listening angle and you unconsciously always move seeking it never finding it. Good smooth directivity makes this go away, and the sound is solid no matter if you move, doesn't take any attention.
Overall, I tend to meter this stuff through attention, like how much the speaker takes from music, as I only have so much to spare and would like all of it go into music and none to the system issues. Thus goal for good system is to make it problem free, that doesn't steer attention out from music.
There is likely multiple things going on at once and it light hard to know what exactly isbthe worst one the attention is kind of acknowledging. Try to find it by measuring and with listening tests you must come up with yourself. If you can find it but can't fix it then buy another set of speakers / build your own. Good tweeter is a good starting point, but good treble likely needs low diffraction structure as well, and high enough high pass filter so dictates the whole system in a way.
Have fun!
To begin with, I had shipped these woofers to Troy Crowe for us to decide on a speaker system design.
Troy eventually proposed his ES450 horn and the B&C DCM50; see his measurements and subjective listening tests for that combination in this video from 17:14 to end.
And recall in that video from 22:08 to 22:55, where Troy also begins discussing the T900-which apparently unlike the cheaper Fostex T90 and/or T96 drivers-has some bump in the response and diffraction issues from the geometry of the horn part of the tweeter. He said it causes a “hashy”, metallic
and/or pinging sound.
Now see this thread and note the commentary among all.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/fostex-t900a-bullet-style-super-tweeter.402892/
And then see Troy’s two T900A fixes in the two videos in above post # 126
Troy has the T900s in stock; whether he will make me pay full price for them I don’t know, as he once offered the much less costly-and possibly less problematic-T90 and T96.
Of far greater concern is that Troy’s offering only to either combine the Altec woofers and the ES450/DCM50 with the T900A with 4th order filter/waveguide or ship my woofers back. The latter option would be disastrous with what I’ve already paid in shipping and Canadian customs tax-and that I have very limited DIY skills. So, I have no choice but to go with Troy’s proposal and that tweeter. I had early asked about using RAAL ribbons, AMTs or even domes in one whatever waveguide atop the ES4350 horn, but Troy insists on the T900A or nothing.
But at least to my limited knowledge level, it seems that as shown in those two videos, Troy has greatly succeeded in fixing the biggest problems inherent in the design and performance of the T900A. Would you agree?
What I don’t get is that in neither video did Troy do any listening tests after he installed that filter circuit and waveguide. You would think he would want to do so and share the good news with potential clients.
However, without benefit of before and after listening tests, please share thoughts on Troy’s T900A solutions. How much would that likely please your ears for your current or next speaker build?
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Hi, you make it seem that you are being forced to buy something? sellers always sell but as customer you can decide to buy or not. I do not know you people or the product so I have no opinion what you should do.
Personally, for my own system / project I haven't even thought about bullet tweeters. Technically bullet tweeter would make sense in a system that has big mid horn, which doesn't have nice highs. Three way speaker can be designed many ways, also without big mid horns and bullet tweeters.
Personally, for my own system / project I haven't even thought about bullet tweeters. Technically bullet tweeter would make sense in a system that has big mid horn, which doesn't have nice highs. Three way speaker can be designed many ways, also without big mid horns and bullet tweeters.
But isn't this a big mid horn? https://josephcrowe.com/products/3d-cad-files-horn-no-1994-es450-biradial-for-jbl-2446-2-throat
His name is Troy, not Joseph? Anyway, whenever you ship out your own driver/enclosure to design a custom speaker system to a one-man operation in another country, it's not going to be cheap. I like his work, but he has to generate a certain income to operate his small business.
My question would be, how did you even decide to go this route, sending in your Altec 416 driver/box? Did you listen to some other horn system using the Altec driver that impressed you so much you HAD to have that sound?
Sure, I'd love to listen to (and own?) some of those beautiful horns on his website, but I also have experienced multiple different ways to generate the sound character I prefer. Some of those are horns (have some), stacked AMT towers, and currently large JBL clone bullet tweeters firing straight up to the ceiling, not for "silky" highs but for crystal-clear airy sparkly highs.
0811240754 by drjlo2, on FlickrIs the topic still silken tweeters.agree with eriksquires mundorf caps w