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Why do we have this kind of mis-information in our forum - maybe better suited for posting on a social media platform. Of course, I've started a few duff threads myself but it's the misinformation that I don't like. Anyhow, my 2c - hybrid is a better technology for the time being in a country like Canada - a huge country without very many charging stations.
Don’t worry, I predict death will occur at 0900 hours, 10 minutes, when the mods have had enough. in the meantime just don’t feed the trolls.
This is what we need from EVs..
Merc bought this new tech:
"The future of performance electric vehicle propulsion"
https://yasa.com/technology/
Merc bought this new tech:
"The future of performance electric vehicle propulsion"
https://yasa.com/technology/
Not sure if you’re taking the **** here… https://e360.yale.edu/features/tire-pollution-toxic-chemicals
It's the head post. If you read on there are people trying to have a serious discussion about EVs.
While there may be a bit of closet denier in some of the opposition to EVs the overwhelming majority here accept that fossil fuel cars have to go...
But are EVs as they are now the solution? Or are they the transport equivalent of the compact fluorescent light?
If they're not the solution, but a stopgap, what will that solution be? Will/can vehicle ownership actually continue as it has?
How can many European countries provide the charging points that widespread EV rollout requires?
These are legit questions...
Long-term sustainable solution for a lot of things, including vehicles, is green*) hydrogen gas, I'd say.
*) With green energy powered electrolysis.
The problem with that is it's still the same problem as misinformation. People have lost trust in sources with authority, so it becomes a battle of battling Google searches. The point is that experts are saying this is the way forward, even if you quote academic sources in your Google search, you are not an expert in the field, but you are presenting yourself as if you are. It's really all part of the same misinformation mess.
Only slightly off topic
Something to consider:
Humans are the only creatures on Earth whose waste products are not food for another creature.
So until society collapses and we start mining landfills for tech products to repurpose, the waste piles will continue to increase.
Something to consider:
Humans are the only creatures on Earth whose waste products are not food for another creature.
So until society collapses and we start mining landfills for tech products to repurpose, the waste piles will continue to increase.
How do you figure that for vehicles? They're having significant issues with adequate energy storage even using liquid hydrogen, let alone gaseous.
So would that include experts who say nuclear power is safe and net zero cannot be achieved without a significant contribution from nuclear. Or the experts who assert the opposite.
Or the experts who assert that GMOs are safe and can provide a valuable contribution to feeding people in a world affected by climate change. Or those who disagree.
Or do you pick experts who's opinion coincides with yours?
There's an awful lot of confirmation bias in this.
I speak as someone who's had a solar water heating installation for 20+ years and would have had solar electric for as long had the cost not been terrifying. But, I hope to have an installation by the end of this year.
I'm old enought to have experienced what happens to overwhelmingly ambitious projects that are severely time constrained but considered to be an imperative.
The literature on this is also extensive and experts say that such projects are doomed to overrun and vastly exceed their projected cost that substantial portions of them never get implemented.
Storage and transmission are really problematic. Can't see it happening at scale. Certainly not replacing domestic gas.
Especially if you factor in the energy, cost and plant required to produce it catalytically or through electrolysis.
Here is a tire testing facility site. Notice how clean it is. No signs of tire dust.
https://www.stllabs.com/testing
If you want to do your own experiment just use a piece of tape to pick up the dirt on a street. Do let me know how much of what is picked up is just dirt and what is rubber? (Rubber burns, dirt usually doesn’t.)
If rubber mostly dissolved into small particles then tunnel floors would certainly show up the stuff.
Not all parts of a tire are rubber. But most of the wear is of the rubber.
https://www.stllabs.com/testing
If you want to do your own experiment just use a piece of tape to pick up the dirt on a street. Do let me know how much of what is picked up is just dirt and what is rubber? (Rubber burns, dirt usually doesn’t.)
If rubber mostly dissolved into small particles then tunnel floors would certainly show up the stuff.
Not all parts of a tire are rubber. But most of the wear is of the rubber.
Looking at the projected population growth nearing the end of this century, it's unlikely anyone's going to care how their food is spliced. 😉
jeff
They were never really in trouble. Geely is just too big. A fresh billion investment doesn’t hurt.
dave
Certainly the case with today’a BEVs.
REminds me, i still have a compact flourescent to change to LED.
dave
If one considers everything they are. It is a transitory tech, like the twisty flourescent bulb.
When fusion finally get sorted it will be sent to the same place as coal is currently headed.
dave
This entire thread should get deleted.
gentle misinformation is worse than boldface lies in this case. EV's are here now and selling in the millions. This is not a test, and not a fad, this is for the time being the status quo, but do please continue to spread "what ifs" of dubious origin and unsupported by facts. Almost every major car manufacturer is committing to switching to EV's. Some have already signaled the end of their entire ICE engine pipelines. European countries are moving fast to electrification. Some that have wealthier and more left-leaning governments are ahead of us (Norway), while others are doing the groundwork to catch up and pass the US (Germany). Given the cost of fuel in Europe there is a strong potential for EV's to be an even better equation there than in the US. Shorter distances, infrastructure-oriented culture of spending, smaller vehicle sizes on average, prodigious access to wind energy in northern Europe- I could go on. The barriers I see is that the US has easy access to massive solar energy (provided we continue to accelerate solar construction), where Europe would (mostly) have to position it in Spain or import it from northern Africa. Europe has it's own climate deniers, especially lovers of diesel cars, that fund a fair number of anti-EV disinformation reports, but I think (and hope) their days are numbered.
I especially hate the cost argument. I don't think EV reluctance in America does or should have much to do with cost. Yes you can buy a used car for 20k, there aren't many EV's older than 4 years old, but when you look at the demographics of new car buying, a massive percentage of new car buyers can afford EV's already. The average price of new cars purchased in the US today is (a rather high) $48,000, making a Tesla model 3/Y long range below average with the $7500 subsidy and the 2WD version less than average even without the subsidy. Another major issue is the cost savings of EV ownership are still misunderstood by many people. We owned a model 3 for 4 years, and drove it as much as we could because the more you drive an EV like that, the more you save over owning an ICE car. Except for 1 warranty replacement of an upper control arm we never went into a dealer. We had zero costs of ownership except electricity, and eventually our first new tires at just over 30k miles. If you're driving 20,000 miles per year the savings are over a thousand per year (based on home charging- see below). A $35k ICE car quickly becomes more expensive to own than a $45k EV, and with the $7500 rebate the 45k EV is closer to a 30k ICE car. But people have trouble appreciating that the additional up-front commitment will translate to real savings over the years of ownership. In other words I would buy an EV as a money saving strategy, not a "lux" purchase.
The real problems (in my mind) are access to charging at home at middle income levels and range for longer trips for single car households. Any 2 car household and anyone with a driveway in front of their house should already own 1 EV. It is a massive no-brainer at this point. But for people in typical middle income housing where their cars are parked remotely, and people that can only have 1 car in their household that needs to work for longer trips the decision is harder. Installation of home charging is not hard in most houses and should cost around $1k although in practice it often costs more due to lack of public knowledge (I installed a 50 amp outlet in my garage for $100 and used the charger that came with our Tesla). Getting an HOA or apartment manager to put chargers in enough parking spots, though, is probably a pita. Regarding range, how often do we really do long trips? We've taken our Teslas on multiple long trips, anywhere from 3 to 24 hours one-way, and yes, for very long trips EV's add about 50% to your travel times. The flip side is that you arrive relaxed and comfortable, and at least for Teslas you don't have to do any planning- the charger network is more than good enough across most of the US.
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