The quality of Naim is not the issue, nor whether someone likes or dislikes a particular product/brand. I am more than capable of deciding what I like/dislike, and I suspect that I have owned and played with a lot more products than at least one of the responders, and even if the responder has a point re. pricing attempting to insult me is certainly not condusive to what this forum is about.
The point is there are real expenses involved in marketing products, I suspect Nelson could confirm this, but all we have to do is look at the pricing structure of Papa's various lines.
I would also contend that the DIY market would never have experienced the interest it has if the market was not established by companies like Advent, Hafler......etc.
The point is there are real expenses involved in marketing products, I suspect Nelson could confirm this, but all we have to do is look at the pricing structure of Papa's various lines.
I would also contend that the DIY market would never have experienced the interest it has if the market was not established by companies like Advent, Hafler......etc.
I would invest in a vinyl collection again if I thought that they were not digitally remastered and generally mucked about with by who knows what types of DSP by young mixing techs who give us what they think we want.
I have a dozen or so old LPs dating back to last century and when I did own a turntable, I was always charmed by the sound. Even the hiss, crackles and clicks couldn't spoil my enjoyment. Nowadays, I can't be bothered with all the cleaning and my listening room is far from dust and dog hair free.
I have a dozen or so old LPs dating back to last century and when I did own a turntable, I was always charmed by the sound. Even the hiss, crackles and clicks couldn't spoil my enjoyment. Nowadays, I can't be bothered with all the cleaning and my listening room is far from dust and dog hair free.
The real Naim does not exist anymore. They are now part of the Vervent Audio Group. Just like a lot of Britsh brands don't "exist" anymore. Only the name's exist. And they are not even a reflection of when the original owners and founders where part of the design and sound proces. Now they are al money driven and sound like sh** or at their best average.
I don't agree that it's taken any HFI manufacturer to stimulate DIYers.
We just like to build our own gear and it's little to do with the money - we build what we can afford and is within our abilities.
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So true. I live in EU and i take every 80' cheap german pressing over a new remasterd 180gram's "hifi" pressing. Most of them are so bad and sound so digital and flat. But the "new" hifi generation seems to love them😢🤔
Yup, and some people aquire equipment to enjoy listening to music, one's motivation has a lot to do with the outcome, if you can read between the lines.
Although this is not the case here, if I take joy in owning expensive gear who are you to tell me that is not a valid reason to buy it.
I wonder if we would have Papa's awesome offerings if his other business ventures had not been as successful as they have been?
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Oh, that's a shame.
That would explain what I heard with their 'all-in-one' BT thingy, some hideous muffled parody of mid-range 1980s stuff. It was the Naim Mu-So, awful.
I note that What Hi-Fi give it 5 stars.. "A hugely desirable wireless speaker with hi-fi aspirations, the Mu-so is stunning", perhaps they confused the sound with the singing from the advertising revenue manager with the sound emenating from the box?
"hi-fi aspirations" rrright, so for £900-£1500 you don't actually get HiFi. Doh!
Yet a few years ago at the local recycling centre in England, one could assemble quite a decent system for a few £, before it was corporatized so making offers for antique gems was forbidden.
I still remember buying my first TV for 50p at the tip, a nice Philips with a dry joint that sparked, once fixed that did me for about 15 years 🙂 . If only I'd known that was less green than binning a big flat panel when the unobtainium control board threw a wobbly ! Yes, every single TV made seems to have a different control board and PSU.
Why didn't govern-ment department standardise this? Or the IEE or IEC? Europe still has about 5 different nozzles types for LPG filling of vehicles - so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised 🙂
I guess 'Branding' is the celebrity culture these days, where the name matters more than the contents 😀
Probably explains why I'm in DIY, can't recall when I last bought something from a HiFi store. The £9 Apple DAC seems to be the closest to HiFi shopping I do.. as I have no time machine!
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If i had one i would go to a Britsh 70' and 80' hifi show. That would be something! If you would bring a modern hifi piece from now with you, i'm sure they would laugh at you.
The ridiculous prices and unbelievable low sound quality put me in DIY and restoring good vintage stuff also. The hifi market is crazy! And the people buying also. Like mummies they analize the sound they are now familiar with, but they seem to miss the "music" completely.
Yes, a 1970s and 80s HiFi show would be something, our version of the Chicago World Fair I guess - a magical glimpse into a previous era of architecture and attention to detail !!
Although the 1970s stuff was probably built in the 1970s - unlike the World Fair buildings, which we appear to have inherited from a previous civilisation.
I just looked up and read a critque of the big Naim Muso, some of the comments made me smile as they blamed the room size. But under my TV in a 70m2 room I have for sound, an old JBL OnBeat Xtreme that always sounds fantastic 😀 . If you ever get a chance to get one of those old JBLs - don't hesitate!
Agreed about people who listen to the Hifi rather than the music, I guess that's part of making it into an industry. Personally I think much of the demise of HiFi as a popular thing was the CD.
If they'd waited for 48kHz 24bit I think we'd have a very different landscape today, or even if they'd used a crude 16bit floating point, to get an exponent in there to match the dB we hear.
But the CD, 96dB from a linear 16 bits, each bit being 6dB... means the quiet stuff was always a bit 'jagged' or lossy, so it forced the mastering to compress; to raise the overall level, which cuts the dynamics. The loudness war, starting with vinyl - but limited by physics - fitted right into the CD's need to be burned 'loud', so dynamics largely disappeared... along with most of the people who were attracted to HiFi for largely that reason.
For me music is harmony, tunes and dynamics. They removed dynamics, and like a three legged stool with a leg removed, it no longer really interested people.
So the music industry sat on 16bit/44kHz, squashing higher def alternatives with their spurious licencing arguments, at a time when the internet allowed the easy downloading of MP3s... which due to the compression of CB mastering - didn't sound that different in many cases. They literally killed their own business IMO.
Thus I noticed a time when soundtracks for films sounded far better than 'HiFi' CDs, and the market lurched to 'home cinema' to save itself, and now people just seem to watch soaps on Netflix and the market appears to have largely evaporated into sound bars and bluetooth speakers.
Perhaps with the new interest in Vinyl, a decent amplifier + speakers would sell.. I hope so, maybe there's a small revival to look forward to 🙂 . Already people are looking back at the old amplifiers of the 1970s, solid aluminium goodness and chunky power supplies - like we look back in wonder at our found(ed) buildings of yesteryear!
Although the 1970s stuff was probably built in the 1970s - unlike the World Fair buildings, which we appear to have inherited from a previous civilisation.
I just looked up and read a critque of the big Naim Muso, some of the comments made me smile as they blamed the room size. But under my TV in a 70m2 room I have for sound, an old JBL OnBeat Xtreme that always sounds fantastic 😀 . If you ever get a chance to get one of those old JBLs - don't hesitate!
Agreed about people who listen to the Hifi rather than the music, I guess that's part of making it into an industry. Personally I think much of the demise of HiFi as a popular thing was the CD.
If they'd waited for 48kHz 24bit I think we'd have a very different landscape today, or even if they'd used a crude 16bit floating point, to get an exponent in there to match the dB we hear.
But the CD, 96dB from a linear 16 bits, each bit being 6dB... means the quiet stuff was always a bit 'jagged' or lossy, so it forced the mastering to compress; to raise the overall level, which cuts the dynamics. The loudness war, starting with vinyl - but limited by physics - fitted right into the CD's need to be burned 'loud', so dynamics largely disappeared... along with most of the people who were attracted to HiFi for largely that reason.
For me music is harmony, tunes and dynamics. They removed dynamics, and like a three legged stool with a leg removed, it no longer really interested people.
So the music industry sat on 16bit/44kHz, squashing higher def alternatives with their spurious licencing arguments, at a time when the internet allowed the easy downloading of MP3s... which due to the compression of CB mastering - didn't sound that different in many cases. They literally killed their own business IMO.
Thus I noticed a time when soundtracks for films sounded far better than 'HiFi' CDs, and the market lurched to 'home cinema' to save itself, and now people just seem to watch soaps on Netflix and the market appears to have largely evaporated into sound bars and bluetooth speakers.
Perhaps with the new interest in Vinyl, a decent amplifier + speakers would sell.. I hope so, maybe there's a small revival to look forward to 🙂 . Already people are looking back at the old amplifiers of the 1970s, solid aluminium goodness and chunky power supplies - like we look back in wonder at our found(ed) buildings of yesteryear!
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We started acquiring vinyl in the past year or so. The only "rule" I've given the household is that unless the album was originally mastered in analog I see no reason audio wise to have the vinyl. We have hundreds and hundreds of cd's otherwise.
It's all about marketing.
If you look at the anemic power of Hifi gear just compare to pro gear.
Here a test of the t.amp e800 amplifier which was 139euro when tested by tnt.
You get 600va toroid and big caps and lots of watts. It sounds clean and neutral. I owned one.
So you can get a lot for your money or not. You just have to tune the ventilators down. Did that with the Behringer Inuke amp+dsp, too.
Until now did not test what can be expected from the minimalist pass amps. Some studio guys say in blind listening tests nobody can hear a difference. So until now I omitted often investments into more expensive Hifi gear.
For the (fullrange) loudspeaker domain I know that not the price is important but you only have to know how to use and tweak it for best results.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e800_e.html
If you look at the anemic power of Hifi gear just compare to pro gear.
Here a test of the t.amp e800 amplifier which was 139euro when tested by tnt.
You get 600va toroid and big caps and lots of watts. It sounds clean and neutral. I owned one.
So you can get a lot for your money or not. You just have to tune the ventilators down. Did that with the Behringer Inuke amp+dsp, too.
Until now did not test what can be expected from the minimalist pass amps. Some studio guys say in blind listening tests nobody can hear a difference. So until now I omitted often investments into more expensive Hifi gear.
For the (fullrange) loudspeaker domain I know that not the price is important but you only have to know how to use and tweak it for best results.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e800_e.html
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And it's not about the quality of sound!
Why there is no commercial amplifier for Hifi with switchable current drive mode for fullrange loudspeakers?
Why there is no commercial amp for the Hifi domain (with a preamp and) at least with integrated 3 parametric EQs?
It would mean so much for correcting for room modes/resonance or tweaking low frequency bandwidth.
Why there is no commercial amplifier for Hifi with switchable current drive mode for fullrange loudspeakers?
Why there is no commercial amp for the Hifi domain (with a preamp and) at least with integrated 3 parametric EQs?
It would mean so much for correcting for room modes/resonance or tweaking low frequency bandwidth.
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Low power amps never worked for me. Interesting as a novelty and for experimentation, but not in the long term.
Back in the 80s and 90s there wasn't much of a market for such devices except entry level (NAD3020 and variants) or low power DHTs with horns. The times have obviously changed.
I have found many albums that are digitally mastered that sound great on vinyl, Dire Straits, Brothers In Arms and Nils Lofgren, Acoustic Live are 2 that jump to mind.
I have had the opportunity to hear some of Peter McGrath's digital recordings of the Florida Symphony(?), and they were stunning!
Oh the irony of this user posting this question while his profile sports a Ferrari badge!
Honda Civic = simple and reliable car that works well and gets you everywhere
Ferrarri = extremely expensive (to own and maintain) and unreliable car for which more than 85% of its performance can never be legally accessed on US roadways.
So why not show some love and choose a Honda badge for your profile? Think about it!
Yea, absolutely true, the 45RPM Dire - Brothers in Arms LPs sounds beyond extremely good:
Full range, juicy bass, firm, hard hitting dynamics and silky smooth midrange+treble.
So. It is simply unwise and only self crippling to be afraid of the HQ digital and HQ remixed vinyls.
🎺🙂🎸
Same here.
I see that with skill you can make a good performing simple design product, cool and kudos to the designer.
That said, you can start tweaking and tweaking and tweaking any design, correcting smaller and smaller problems with no end in sight.
Which of course will keep complicating it, typically with very small "improvements" every time.
Combine that with robotic automated production, you can easily make very complex stuff, for very low cost, so that is not a barrier any more.