I can related to those good memories from back when the small AOS Studios were a thing! Given this background I'd second the recommendation for the good old ScanSpeak 21W woofers whith their "crumbly" cone. They are good! Otherwise the 18W woofers with the sliced cones are also nice, and they can do a lot in a well tuned ported box.
Oh, just in case, I do have some 15W/9531G midwoofers which I don't need anymore (yes, the AOS special types). Send me a PM if you want them.
Oh, just in case, I do have some 15W/9531G midwoofers which I don't need anymore (yes, the AOS special types). Send me a PM if you want them.
Hi all, thanks for you suggestions and offers!
The budget is a good question, in a first step I decided to keep it open but reasonable "as much that is needed to get an appropriate result with the 15M Revelators".
As nice the combination with 21W and 9700 classic appears, I decided that an overall driver cost of >>1200.-€ is too much for this "old memories" project, and I want to keep the overall driver budget << 1000.- €
@Guerilla: Thanks a lot for your kind offer, but the 21W is out now due to budget constrains!
I will also definitely take the D2604/833000 discovery as tweeter, as this is closest match to my old speaker hoping for matching sound signature + wider dispersion for fresher highs >10kHz.
Woofer section still not decided, but when it becomes one 8" it will now be definitely the 22W Discovery due to value and my good experiences with its larger brother, the 26W.
@mbrennwa : Thanks a lot for your offer! It is the 8-Ohm type used in the Studio 24 with cone coating, or? --> Will send you PM!
Best regards
Peter
The budget is a good question, in a first step I decided to keep it open but reasonable "as much that is needed to get an appropriate result with the 15M Revelators".
As nice the combination with 21W and 9700 classic appears, I decided that an overall driver cost of >>1200.-€ is too much for this "old memories" project, and I want to keep the overall driver budget << 1000.- €
@Guerilla: Thanks a lot for your kind offer, but the 21W is out now due to budget constrains!
I will also definitely take the D2604/833000 discovery as tweeter, as this is closest match to my old speaker hoping for matching sound signature + wider dispersion for fresher highs >10kHz.
Woofer section still not decided, but when it becomes one 8" it will now be definitely the 22W Discovery due to value and my good experiences with its larger brother, the 26W.
@mbrennwa : Thanks a lot for your offer! It is the 8-Ohm type used in the Studio 24 with cone coating, or? --> Will send you PM!
Best regards
Peter
I gather you are not so focused on sound quality compared to the WAF/fallic design aspect.
Og course one cannot by law of physics achieve anything near a full representation of recorded material from slim 90'ies and forth era speakerdesigns.
Unless you have a very small room, 8 inch woofers won't nearly cut it.
If small you can buy from me a set of Monacor sp250 for 30euro plus transport. I would still send you the 21w (w21?) for free to play around with.
If you decide to go this serious route I can also sell you for cheaps a surplus SP-8/150PA BEST.Nr 10.1680 mid driver unused in box it looks.
Cheers!
Og course one cannot by law of physics achieve anything near a full representation of recorded material from slim 90'ies and forth era speakerdesigns.
Unless you have a very small room, 8 inch woofers won't nearly cut it.
If small you can buy from me a set of Monacor sp250 for 30euro plus transport. I would still send you the 21w (w21?) for free to play around with.
If you decide to go this serious route I can also sell you for cheaps a surplus SP-8/150PA BEST.Nr 10.1680 mid driver unused in box it looks.
Cheers!
I dont remember my scan skeaks being crumply though.
By roots you mean you are going a different roots right? Different drivers, 3 ways and nicely finished kabinet?
Cheers!
By roots you mean you are going a different roots right? Different drivers, 3 ways and nicely finished kabinet?
Cheers!
I dont want my w21 back if thats what you mean. Didnt find it yet. It must be in a box somewhere.
You have plenty of good German, Polish etc. drivers in Germany so I would recommend you only spend big money for Danish drivers where sound quality residens. From the middranges that is.
Cheers.
Cheers.
I dont know, but I wouldnt be surprised that drivers rebranded as Thomann are great. Thomann is generally "Bang for the bucks" Biggest shop in Europe I think
Cheers!
Cheers!
If you can afford purifi midrange and stock up with surplus drivers from Facebook markedplace?
I would not hesitate a second buying purifi if I didnt have to many nice speakers already.
Cheers!
I would not hesitate a second buying purifi if I didnt have to many nice speakers already.
Cheers!
I also have extra Zomax compression drivers you can buy, but those probably needs new diaphragms from AliExpress
@Kwesi - I have to say that if I was going to the effort of designing and building a floor standing speaker such as this, I would find a way to incorporate dual 8" woofers. A pair of SS discovery 8" for instance.
It is the same amount of time and effort to make a small tower with dual 6.5" woofers as it is to make a somewhat larger tower with dual 8" woofers.
You could try to duplicate the look of the Sonus Faber Cremona !
j.
It is the same amount of time and effort to make a small tower with dual 6.5" woofers as it is to make a somewhat larger tower with dual 8" woofers.
You could try to duplicate the look of the Sonus Faber Cremona !
j.
I’m in the favor of the Dayton RS225-8 as the absolute best price vs performance solution for a parallel pair…..enough tactile and accurate response for ANY classic tower loudspeaker and class leading distortion.
Consider a modular build approach, separating the bass/midbass from the mid/tweeter……reduced resonance bleeding into the mids and highs and easier to control bass cab enclosure resonance with the shorter panel lengths. More manageable to build, finish, move and set up. The mid/high seperate enclosure also allows for less costly and troublesome prototyping if you decide on different drivers with different sizes……even down the road for a total redo…..only redo the top. I could state with full confidence that you’d likely never feel a need to redo the bass section of the Dayton drivers.
I did some extensive testing of baffle resonance and it’s effect on ribbon tweeters a few years ago and the results were surprising just how much destruction was being done to the ultra light ribbons with hulking woofers pumping 50-60hz slam. Separate the two and it’s like magic! I have not done the same testing with domes but I would venture there’s improvement there as well.
Today’s DSP offerings make prototyping and building a no brainer compared to passive networks. No more worries over redundant DA to AD conversions…..unless you’re a vinyl addict……there’s no help for that! Lol
I’m a fan of ring radiators…..there’s something about the detail in the 8khz range that domes don’t do as well…..that extra detail and clarity for my ears, is an acceptable tradeoff. I suspect my favor also lies in imaging….the fact that 8khz is our cue for height identification, it makes perfect sense to me. When I mix ATMOS, I always boost 8k 2-3db for the height channels.
Good luck with your build and always ask ‘should I’ before ‘could I’.
Consider a modular build approach, separating the bass/midbass from the mid/tweeter……reduced resonance bleeding into the mids and highs and easier to control bass cab enclosure resonance with the shorter panel lengths. More manageable to build, finish, move and set up. The mid/high seperate enclosure also allows for less costly and troublesome prototyping if you decide on different drivers with different sizes……even down the road for a total redo…..only redo the top. I could state with full confidence that you’d likely never feel a need to redo the bass section of the Dayton drivers.
I did some extensive testing of baffle resonance and it’s effect on ribbon tweeters a few years ago and the results were surprising just how much destruction was being done to the ultra light ribbons with hulking woofers pumping 50-60hz slam. Separate the two and it’s like magic! I have not done the same testing with domes but I would venture there’s improvement there as well.
Today’s DSP offerings make prototyping and building a no brainer compared to passive networks. No more worries over redundant DA to AD conversions…..unless you’re a vinyl addict……there’s no help for that! Lol
I’m a fan of ring radiators…..there’s something about the detail in the 8khz range that domes don’t do as well…..that extra detail and clarity for my ears, is an acceptable tradeoff. I suspect my favor also lies in imaging….the fact that 8khz is our cue for height identification, it makes perfect sense to me. When I mix ATMOS, I always boost 8k 2-3db for the height channels.
Good luck with your build and always ask ‘should I’ before ‘could I’.
Agree. When I built a pair of tower speakers with twin 8" woofers, the final speaker weighed about 80 lb. Difficult for one person to move. It is challenging to apply finish (whether paint, veneer, varnish, etc) to a very heavy speaker because it is hard to move it about the work shop in a delicate way, without introducing dents and scratches. For me it would have been much better to have a 50 lb lower section and a 40 lb upper section.
I am also a true-believer in DSP. It allows so many good things to happen. One of the best features is the ability to shrink the bass driver volume down and use a sealed box with DSP EQ to extend the response... It results in a very high quality bass response in a small package.
j.
I think you're both missing the point. Peter has done Hypex 3-ways before. I got the impression this is an economical nostalgic project towards simplicity, and it's 2 x 6" or 1 x 8" that's on the table; not 2 x 8s.
^ Then preferably 15 or 12 inch. Many nice 18 inch around too. For example Thomann. Anyways focus should be on better midd ranges. I have some nice 12 inch midds for sale. They only need a recone to play perfect.
Cheers?
Cheers?
Well, I have often benefitted from people on this forum challenging me to think outside my box, and consider alternate paths.
Thanks for all your thoughtful advices, suggestions and offers! 🙂
@Guerilla: thanks for you advices and offers, but this is all a bit confusing what you write...
I once build these fat boys few years ago with Faital 18FH500:
They were nice and dynamic, but I never needed and used the extensive headroom. Luckily I was able to sell the cabinets and woofers together for a fair price.
The other speakers beside are my "Scandinavian Connections" I'm working on since 2015 iteratively, They are my refencences and will stay forever, usually placed in my home office and sometimes in my living room, e.g. for comparisons.
With the MkV iteration I won IGDH DIY contest in 2019, on the right is the current MkVIII with 2x 26W Discovery in 65l CB, SB15NBAC and Seas TAC/GB on Hypex FA123, woofers an mid with bucking magnets, mid an tweeter with serial notches on breakup resonances. They are electroacoustic microscopes and can do the dissapear trick impressingly well, very insensitive to placing playing confident in my 40m² living room as well as in my 11m² office without getting boomy. Hard to beat for my taste and the best speakers I ever build and had.
I already have some Idea that points exactly in that direction, but this may come some day as another project with Bliesma T25A, Kartesian Mid120, Hypex FA503 I already own and use in my main living room system, planning also with 2x 22W Discovery in CB for the woofer section to get more dynamic headroom than now but keeping the speakers compact:
This would be another option I'm pondering around as an alternative to the CAD concept above for my living room main system. I'm thinking about "The Base" with two Faital 10RS430 in a very compact ~50l CB housing, the mentioned FA503 and a 4pole Speakon connection enabling the use of various tops with different driver combinations.
Thanks for the hint. I've also made good experience supporting the woofer and mid magnets to the rear wall of the cabin. Did no exact measurements, but by laying on my hand I observed the vibrations of the baffle at elevated levels were significantly reduced, and the sound became more clear.
I've only heard the "cheap" Vifa/Discovery ring radiators till now for some times, I found them pretty clear, transparent and neutral but always a bit lame and boring on the upper end as mentioned before. Do you have experience with the more expensive Illuminator/Revelator ring radiators in comparison?
Yep, this is exaclty what the intended build is about. No big main endgame system and no research project, just a cute traditional floorstander with nice looks and hopefully sweet Revelator sound. Permanent location may be in the Guest/TV room with ~14m² and limited space for placing. So one 8" is more than sufficient. Nevertheless, I want to do all basic things right and choose the drivers wisely.
Best regards
Peter
@Guerilla: thanks for you advices and offers, but this is all a bit confusing what you write...
I once build these fat boys few years ago with Faital 18FH500:
They were nice and dynamic, but I never needed and used the extensive headroom. Luckily I was able to sell the cabinets and woofers together for a fair price.
The other speakers beside are my "Scandinavian Connections" I'm working on since 2015 iteratively, They are my refencences and will stay forever, usually placed in my home office and sometimes in my living room, e.g. for comparisons.
With the MkV iteration I won IGDH DIY contest in 2019, on the right is the current MkVIII with 2x 26W Discovery in 65l CB, SB15NBAC and Seas TAC/GB on Hypex FA123, woofers an mid with bucking magnets, mid an tweeter with serial notches on breakup resonances. They are electroacoustic microscopes and can do the dissapear trick impressingly well, very insensitive to placing playing confident in my 40m² living room as well as in my 11m² office without getting boomy. Hard to beat for my taste and the best speakers I ever build and had.
I already have some Idea that points exactly in that direction, but this may come some day as another project with Bliesma T25A, Kartesian Mid120, Hypex FA503 I already own and use in my main living room system, planning also with 2x 22W Discovery in CB for the woofer section to get more dynamic headroom than now but keeping the speakers compact:
This would be another option I'm pondering around as an alternative to the CAD concept above for my living room main system. I'm thinking about "The Base" with two Faital 10RS430 in a very compact ~50l CB housing, the mentioned FA503 and a 4pole Speakon connection enabling the use of various tops with different driver combinations.
Thanks for the hint. I've also made good experience supporting the woofer and mid magnets to the rear wall of the cabin. Did no exact measurements, but by laying on my hand I observed the vibrations of the baffle at elevated levels were significantly reduced, and the sound became more clear.
I've only heard the "cheap" Vifa/Discovery ring radiators till now for some times, I found them pretty clear, transparent and neutral but always a bit lame and boring on the upper end as mentioned before. Do you have experience with the more expensive Illuminator/Revelator ring radiators in comparison?
Yep, this is exaclty what the intended build is about. No big main endgame system and no research project, just a cute traditional floorstander with nice looks and hopefully sweet Revelator sound. Permanent location may be in the Guest/TV room with ~14m² and limited space for placing. So one 8" is more than sufficient. Nevertheless, I want to do all basic things right and choose the drivers wisely.
Best regards
Peter
Last edited: