I have a pair of Snell Type EIIs that I'm restoring. Have all the correct replacement bits supplied by Steve Flynn at Atomic TV and Hifi. They're the official Snell repository of parts, service, and technical information. They are the place for Snell stuff!
I'm not making any modifications to the speakers, just restoring them to original specification. Except, perhaps, that I'm considering adding some kind of cabinet stuffing, filling the inside and/or walls of the cabinet. Snell didn't originally do any of that. There's no polyfill in boxes originally. It's a ported design. My sense is that it's mostly desirable to have the inside of the box as quiet/damped as possible, though with a ported design you have to be careful about affecting air movement through the port.
Of course, if I do nothing I'll get a speaker that should perform the same as it did when it left the factory, which could be okay.
Are there any benefits or issues of adding some polyfill or resonance reducing wall material to the cabinet?
Thanks.
I'm not making any modifications to the speakers, just restoring them to original specification. Except, perhaps, that I'm considering adding some kind of cabinet stuffing, filling the inside and/or walls of the cabinet. Snell didn't originally do any of that. There's no polyfill in boxes originally. It's a ported design. My sense is that it's mostly desirable to have the inside of the box as quiet/damped as possible, though with a ported design you have to be careful about affecting air movement through the port.
Of course, if I do nothing I'll get a speaker that should perform the same as it did when it left the factory, which could be okay.
Are there any benefits or issues of adding some polyfill or resonance reducing wall material to the cabinet?
Thanks.
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Don't use polyfill. It's only advantage is $$$. Use Fibreglass Roof insulation; the really nasty stuff. You need quite a lot .. about the consistency of a cushion. Try to fill all the internal volume. But leave a free passage between the bass unit and the port.
Audible advantage is much better midrange. How much better depends on the frequency range of the unit used.
Audible advantage is much better midrange. How much better depends on the frequency range of the unit used.
I have 2 pairs of Snell EII’s, both have a single polyfill sheet, several inches thick, running from the top of cabinet down past the woofer, but not all the way to the bottom (You can’t see the poly through the port). It’s a fairly loose affair, hiding the crossover and rear tweeter from view. Not “stuffed”.
If you haven’t asked yet, you could check back with Atomic HiFi. (Though this post is a little late…)
Hope the restoration worked out well for you. I went in the same direction and ended replacing all the drivers with their respective crossover components that came with them.
I was a little concerned about the replacement front tweeters because they are quite different than the original. Similar look to something like a Morel MDT-29. The outer faceplate fits perfect, but the larger magnet requires some filing of the internal opening to fit.
Having a second pair on hand convinced me that this upgrade was a good choice. I personally love ‘em.
If you haven’t asked yet, you could check back with Atomic HiFi. (Though this post is a little late…)
Hope the restoration worked out well for you. I went in the same direction and ended replacing all the drivers with their respective crossover components that came with them.
I was a little concerned about the replacement front tweeters because they are quite different than the original. Similar look to something like a Morel MDT-29. The outer faceplate fits perfect, but the larger magnet requires some filing of the internal opening to fit.
Having a second pair on hand convinced me that this upgrade was a good choice. I personally love ‘em.
I was wrong about the stuffing. Looking again (it had been a while), they do have their original stuffing, and it's installed as Pure_Brew describes. I'm going to leave it as-is.
An important note for everyone who wants to restore a pair of Snell speakers to their original specification. Drivers can't be replaced randomly. For better and worse to get Snells to do what they did when they left the factory, all the bits have to be re-fettled to match the original reference specification, otherwise they will not work properly. Each speaker was tuned individually, by hand (and it shows). Re-foaming/surrounding woofers, fitting an off-the-shelf woofer or tweeter, has an impossibly low probability of having the speaker coming close performing as it did originally. And it will more likely than not be out of tolerance enough that it doesn't sound anything like the original, great-sounding Snell speaker. I see lots of Snell speakers for sale where they've received the random re-foaming or replacement drivers and there is almost no way they are performing properly and will need to be gone through again to get them to work properly.
I went through this with two pairs of Snell speakers now; a pair of Type Cis and E-IIs. Had the rotted driver surrounds replaced, even by a super-quality shop, but the speakers sounded awful. Steve Flynn at Atomic HiFi is quick to warn about this, and he's right. I visited him at the shop, had a great time chatting about Snell stuff, and got all the right bits. He's an absolutely invaluable, helpful, and friendly resource.
That big, old Becker woofer had its surround fail, as it inevitably had to. That's a super tough driver replacement. The original Becker woofer is first of all unobtanium, and it's also mass-load tuned! Double whammy. Steve has had made a modern replacement woofer that's way better than the original. And even much lower priced than Snell had been charging for the OE replacement. Especially the case with the larger Snell speakers, they've always had excellent LF performance, in both quality and quantity. The Ci one was one of these. With the refoamed original Becker woofer, the LF was absent. I mean, gone. With the replacement woofer, all mass-load tuned up properly, the lovely, extended, tuneful, textured bass was back.
Another thing I'll add about what I've discovered in restoring the Type Ci... The Type Ci was/is the hot-rodded version of the original Peter Snell-designed Type C. The Ci is a sealed box, while the original C is ported, the Ci had upgraded crossover parts, including "fancy" wiring. Big bundles of twisted wire connecting all the drivers. All the negative polarity wires used AudioQuest "Live Wire", while the positive polarity connections used a clear-jacketed, multi-stranded Monster Cable wire type. This clear-jacked wiring was all badly corroded. It was a green-brown color, and it was even a bit sticky/gooey. Not good at all for optimum conductivity. I've seen this happen with this type of cable several times before. I replaced all the wiring with the same gauge in a PTFE-jacketed silver coated copper wire.
An interesting thing to note is that with the Cis, they were wired with this fancy wires, and a heavy net gauge with they twisted bundles, but the connections from the binding posts were single runs of the AudioQuest Live Wire. I certainly could've, many should've, increased the wire gauge from the binding posts to crossover connections so that it is the same as used through the rest of the speakers by twisting together some additional wire runs, but I didn't.
The Cis are much more complex speaker than the E. Of course, more drivers, and lots more crossover parts. Large bundles of electrolytic caps in the woofer crossover filter circuit.
I didn't "modify" either speakers, the Cis nor the E-IIs, but I did change the binding posts on both to a new, beefier, high-quality type, and I made jumpers using braided sets from the wiring I used in the crossovers and nice quality banana plugs.
An important note for everyone who wants to restore a pair of Snell speakers to their original specification. Drivers can't be replaced randomly. For better and worse to get Snells to do what they did when they left the factory, all the bits have to be re-fettled to match the original reference specification, otherwise they will not work properly. Each speaker was tuned individually, by hand (and it shows). Re-foaming/surrounding woofers, fitting an off-the-shelf woofer or tweeter, has an impossibly low probability of having the speaker coming close performing as it did originally. And it will more likely than not be out of tolerance enough that it doesn't sound anything like the original, great-sounding Snell speaker. I see lots of Snell speakers for sale where they've received the random re-foaming or replacement drivers and there is almost no way they are performing properly and will need to be gone through again to get them to work properly.
I went through this with two pairs of Snell speakers now; a pair of Type Cis and E-IIs. Had the rotted driver surrounds replaced, even by a super-quality shop, but the speakers sounded awful. Steve Flynn at Atomic HiFi is quick to warn about this, and he's right. I visited him at the shop, had a great time chatting about Snell stuff, and got all the right bits. He's an absolutely invaluable, helpful, and friendly resource.
That big, old Becker woofer had its surround fail, as it inevitably had to. That's a super tough driver replacement. The original Becker woofer is first of all unobtanium, and it's also mass-load tuned! Double whammy. Steve has had made a modern replacement woofer that's way better than the original. And even much lower priced than Snell had been charging for the OE replacement. Especially the case with the larger Snell speakers, they've always had excellent LF performance, in both quality and quantity. The Ci one was one of these. With the refoamed original Becker woofer, the LF was absent. I mean, gone. With the replacement woofer, all mass-load tuned up properly, the lovely, extended, tuneful, textured bass was back.
Another thing I'll add about what I've discovered in restoring the Type Ci... The Type Ci was/is the hot-rodded version of the original Peter Snell-designed Type C. The Ci is a sealed box, while the original C is ported, the Ci had upgraded crossover parts, including "fancy" wiring. Big bundles of twisted wire connecting all the drivers. All the negative polarity wires used AudioQuest "Live Wire", while the positive polarity connections used a clear-jacketed, multi-stranded Monster Cable wire type. This clear-jacked wiring was all badly corroded. It was a green-brown color, and it was even a bit sticky/gooey. Not good at all for optimum conductivity. I've seen this happen with this type of cable several times before. I replaced all the wiring with the same gauge in a PTFE-jacketed silver coated copper wire.
An interesting thing to note is that with the Cis, they were wired with this fancy wires, and a heavy net gauge with they twisted bundles, but the connections from the binding posts were single runs of the AudioQuest Live Wire. I certainly could've, many should've, increased the wire gauge from the binding posts to crossover connections so that it is the same as used through the rest of the speakers by twisting together some additional wire runs, but I didn't.
The Cis are much more complex speaker than the E. Of course, more drivers, and lots more crossover parts. Large bundles of electrolytic caps in the woofer crossover filter circuit.
I didn't "modify" either speakers, the Cis nor the E-IIs, but I did change the binding posts on both to a new, beefier, high-quality type, and I made jumpers using braided sets from the wiring I used in the crossovers and nice quality banana plugs.
Whoa! Very tidy. Careful consideration of the damping material placement.
Yeah crazy pricing on Snell drivers, which are essentially low cost Peerless models with custom looks. Im searching for which model can donor two centerdomes for my Ds so they can get out on the used marked. They are nice speakers although I modded Some Dalis to sound much better in my room.
Cheers!
Cheers!
I also don't want to ever pay more than I have to. In fact, mostly I want to pay as little as possible 🙂. I have a couple other speakers I had felt committed enough to to support them with a stock of spare drivers. I shopped those for the best prices. That Ci replacement woofer was, interestingly enough, 1/2-1/3 the price of what Snell had way back when - like way back when - they had OE replacements. And the new woofer is way better. The Es and Cs use a mix of drivers from SEAS, VIFA, even Philips.
Wanting to get the pair of Es and Cs back to OE condition, Atomic HiFi made that easy and it wasn't especially pricey. Everything all the right parts, tuned up, matched, new, tested, and ready to go.
I had a pair of C/Vs for a long time. In fact, I had two pair at one point. Lots of Peerless goin' on. Rumor has it that the Type D is a great speaker. Even better than the C/V.
I also have Spicas. TC-50s and Angelus. It's a real problem if the midwoofer in those speakers needs replacement 🙁
Wanting to get the pair of Es and Cs back to OE condition, Atomic HiFi made that easy and it wasn't especially pricey. Everything all the right parts, tuned up, matched, new, tested, and ready to go.
I had a pair of C/Vs for a long time. In fact, I had two pair at one point. Lots of Peerless goin' on. Rumor has it that the Type D is a great speaker. Even better than the C/V.
I also have Spicas. TC-50s and Angelus. It's a real problem if the midwoofer in those speakers needs replacement 🙁
Thinking about pricing. The EII’s used Vifa woofers and rear tweeters. Front tweeters were tonegen. Considering just the woofer, Seas prestige look like the closest match, but it has a rubber vs foam surround. Those run about $100+. And you can’t source this woofer in that configuration elsewhere.
Snell service sells this replacement for $200+, but it’s not just the woofer they are selling. It’s the labor to sweep and match the woofer to the original response curve, along with the replacement crossover components to ensure that it does.
Snell service sells this replacement for $200+, but it’s not just the woofer they are selling. It’s the labor to sweep and match the woofer to the original response curve, along with the replacement crossover components to ensure that it does.
I used to really want those C/V’s back in the day. (Jealous)We had those in the demo room in a store I worked in. The D’s were also really nice. I remember we had some acoustic guitar playing on the D’s using mid-90’s PS Audio gear and the sound was wonderful. I don’t remember the D’s being better, but I do remember the C/IV’s could really rock-out with the right amplification. Either one could be pretty rough on the high end with some amplifiers. Kevin Voecks designs.
Long time ago though, and my auditory memory ain’t what it used to be.
I have a memory of REALLY liking the sound of Snell J or E at the shop in around 1989. -Better than my current D's, but I have no Idea how much crossover have deterioated since new. I will renovate when I Finnish renovating my Autopainted fronts Dali 18 MK2. When I got the Snells I couldn't deside which were better, and my wife told me to keep both, since they sound best together. Im sure thats not the case when both are renovated and carefully set up. Then they should sound better individually, but we will see😊
Cheers!
Cheers!
I recall the same thing with the C/Vs. The high frequencies could be harsh, glarey. Yeah, rockin' out. The dynamics were outstanding. The speaker did so much right, they were so close to all I wanted in a speaker, that I owned them for a long time (perhaps far too long) working with them to get that last bit right to bring the whole thing together. Interesting you mention Voecks. Listening to many Revel models remind me of many of his Snell designs. You can see the evolution of his design approaches moving from his Snell to his Revel designs. I have kinda leaned in the direction of liking the Peter Snell designs better overall.
I've heard some folks attribute that rough high frequency delivery of the C/V to the titanium dome tweeter. Some have mentioned the crossover of the MTM and its phasing. I dunno.
Peter Snell (R.I.P.) was an exceptional designer and his speakers sound magnificent, and as I don't think they can be "improved" I frankly wouldn't even touch them (Type D here) excluding the binding posts and their tray.
I replaced them with 2 pairs of good quality copper binding posts and a 10 mm polycarbonate plate.
I replaced the carbon resistor in series with the L-pad with a good quality wire-wound one (which in my ears makes a good difference, even when compared to "noble" " Mundorf ones).
I completely disconnected the rear tweeter wiring.
Also, I removed the fuse and its holder, and replaced the original Bussmann-Eaton fuse with a glass fuse (few cents each, from AE) of the same characteristics by directly soldering it between a binding post and the wirewound resistor (that's in seriers with the front tweeter).
I had already done it with the original fuse, but at the end of the tests I kept the glass one.
According to some listeners, the presence of the fuse (and its holder) is audible (if I remember correctly, I read it mainly referring to electrostatic speakers) and someone removes it completely.
I'm not of the opinion of risking so much, and the glass fuse seems like a better choice to my ears.
Since it costs practically nothing to try, I invite you to try it and then let us possibly know.
I replaced them with 2 pairs of good quality copper binding posts and a 10 mm polycarbonate plate.
I replaced the carbon resistor in series with the L-pad with a good quality wire-wound one (which in my ears makes a good difference, even when compared to "noble" " Mundorf ones).
I completely disconnected the rear tweeter wiring.
Also, I removed the fuse and its holder, and replaced the original Bussmann-Eaton fuse with a glass fuse (few cents each, from AE) of the same characteristics by directly soldering it between a binding post and the wirewound resistor (that's in seriers with the front tweeter).
I had already done it with the original fuse, but at the end of the tests I kept the glass one.
According to some listeners, the presence of the fuse (and its holder) is audible (if I remember correctly, I read it mainly referring to electrostatic speakers) and someone removes it completely.
I'm not of the opinion of risking so much, and the glass fuse seems like a better choice to my ears.
Since it costs practically nothing to try, I invite you to try it and then let us possibly know.
I imagine that the rear tweeter's usefulness is totally up to the listening room and/or positioning.
Cheers!
Cheers!
I'm sorry to tell that they are not for sale also and above all because they are visibly damaged as the thin plastic of the edges has not resisted several disassembly and reassembly during the years.
However, JFIY the glass fuses (not the ones in the photo which are the original ones) are 250V 2A Fast Blow 3x10 mm. directly soldered, like the following (they are extremely cheap and small, but they sound great to my ears, i.e. they don't sound at all).
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000340166381.html
Also, I replaced the original spikes with Soundcare ones (5/16").
Always listening to them in bi-wiring here.
Yeah, the rear tweeter use is controversial and it mostly depends from the positioning of the speakers and from what is behind the speakers.
To avoid temptations I permanently disconnected them, however eliminating a potential source of electric "contamination", even if only theoretical.
To be honest I never perceived any improvement in the soundstage in my room due to rear tweeter, indeed something that subliminally bothered me (if you know what I mean). 😉
May be of interest
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My right tray didn't survive 1 removal 😊. -Not badly damaged and Ive worked in plastic, so I think I can mend it. I never got the original spikes, but I think I have some lying around and some wood or vinyl to protect the floor. I dont want to do too much to the rear tweeter since I doubt they will beat my Dalis and will be sold on. Crazy prices on Snell among collectors. Helped that Audionote bumped the prices of course 😊. -We will see..
Cheers!
Cheers!