That is OK, you do not have to design the waveguide. Stick to one of the aforementioned combinations and you are good to go. The process of integrating a tweeter into an existing loudspeaker is the same as a tweeter / waveguide combination. Woodwork, frequency response measurements, crossover design.
Crossing and 8" with a tweeter will require a waveguide or horn.
Adding a waveguide will create a bump in the lower frequencies and bring the higher frequencies down. Either a tweeter with rising high fr or enough SLP is best.
Of course all the other suggestions still stand.
Adding a waveguide will create a bump in the lower frequencies and bring the higher frequencies down. Either a tweeter with rising high fr or enough SLP is best.
Of course all the other suggestions still stand.
At this time the wave guided tweeters I am looking at are on backorder so I now have some time. I took the advice and ordered a microphone, the UMIK-1 and all the cords needed to connect my laptop to my audio system so I can become a real speaker designer and builder. :>) So far I have found REW a step leaning curve when I tried this a while ago with a Behringer mic and an audio interface. Any tips on the easiest method for using a laptop and the UMIK-1 would be most appreciated.
If you want small very good sounding dome with great directionaly, no beaming, try hiquphon.
https://www.hiquphon.dk/
https://www.hiquphon.dk/
Using REW isn’t that complicated, but you’ll have to read the manual and get an understanding of ‘gated measurements’ and why they have to be.
At the risk of repeating myself, this tweeter:
https://hificompass.com/en/reviews/wavecor-tw030wa11-tweeter
https://audioxpress.com/article/Test-Bench-Wavecor-TW030WA12-30-mm-Cloth-Waveguide-Loaded-Tweeter
will do everything you ask of it, with aplomb. And you don't have to wrap your noodle around the waveguide, it's all one piece.
I don't think there's a more robust tweeter/waveguide package at this price.
https://hificompass.com/en/reviews/wavecor-tw030wa11-tweeter
https://audioxpress.com/article/Test-Bench-Wavecor-TW030WA12-30-mm-Cloth-Waveguide-Loaded-Tweeter
will do everything you ask of it, with aplomb. And you don't have to wrap your noodle around the waveguide, it's all one piece.
I don't think there's a more robust tweeter/waveguide package at this price.
---- Morbo - At the risk of repeating myself, this tweeter:
This tweeter looks like the one I would like to use even at its $99 price tag. It is good to hear that you have found it to be as advertised. I actually have put it into Xsim but since the woofers are unknown I decided to buy the microphone, cords and learn REW so I can build a crossover that is a good match to the wavecors. I am really in no hurry since I have 3 sets of speakers that I rotate between that I really like and the wavecors are not available until December from Parts express.
-----Markbakk - "Gated Measurments"
Yes, another node on the leaning curve. Any of your wisdom would be appreciated, just need it it the form you would tell a fifth grader. :>)
This tweeter looks like the one I would like to use even at its $99 price tag. It is good to hear that you have found it to be as advertised. I actually have put it into Xsim but since the woofers are unknown I decided to buy the microphone, cords and learn REW so I can build a crossover that is a good match to the wavecors. I am really in no hurry since I have 3 sets of speakers that I rotate between that I really like and the wavecors are not available until December from Parts express.
-----Markbakk - "Gated Measurments"
Yes, another node on the leaning curve. Any of your wisdom would be appreciated, just need it it the form you would tell a fifth grader. :>)
One look at the off axis measurements of this (excellent) Wavecor and of any 8” woofer tells you they won’t match in directivity unless you cross below 1,3k. And the tweeter will then get a hard time with twin 8” woofers.
Gated measurements are meant to cut out the room reflections in the speaker signal. You could imagine a time window that moves with time while a certain test signal is applied. All direct sound from the loudspeaker is captured, while reflections, arriving later, are excluded.
This technique needs some math to divide the source sound from the earlier reflections that are present in the measured signal. But we don’t have to worry about that math too much. Further reading is adviced, d’Appolito and others wrote readable books about it. And of course manuals of ARTA and REW offer insight too, as do various threads on this forum.
Last edited:
SB26ADC on a WG300 is one of the best options.
SB26ADC has Xmax = 1.2 mm which is double of most others. It's a bit smaller then the SD29 but will still have 50% more volume displacement.
And it sound good 🙂
SB26ADC has Xmax = 1.2 mm which is double of most others. It's a bit smaller then the SD29 but will still have 50% more volume displacement.
And it sound good 🙂
Since you are using 8" woofers, there is another way to align the curves than seeking maximally flat as well. Due to the directivity change if an 8" to ~1" driver, there can be a huge peak at the xover in power response if flat response on axis.
Having done several without waveguides myself, I like to rolloff the tweeter gradually and a little early, and roll off the woofer rather steep. This combats the bloom these kinds of designs tend to have. If the woofer frame is shallow, it can also be of benefit to overlap the drivers for closer center to center.
For reference, you can likely find my Zingers build to see exactly what I am referring above.
As to the SB 29SDAC, I have used the RDAC with the same motor. Running it lower absolutely required compensating the Fs spike to absolute minimum. I used an LC across it for best results.
Having done several without waveguides myself, I like to rolloff the tweeter gradually and a little early, and roll off the woofer rather steep. This combats the bloom these kinds of designs tend to have. If the woofer frame is shallow, it can also be of benefit to overlap the drivers for closer center to center.
For reference, you can likely find my Zingers build to see exactly what I am referring above.
As to the SB 29SDAC, I have used the RDAC with the same motor. Running it lower absolutely required compensating the Fs spike to absolute minimum. I used an LC across it for best results.
This is true. But it will certainly match directivity better than any 'naked' tweeter without a waveguide. And even among the commercially available waveguided options, are there any that would match directivity lower, while maintaining low distortion?
I will grant that matching a larger 3d printed WG to a sb26adc (or especially the Peerless DX25BG60) would probably be better, but not everyone is willing or able to print, finish, and mate a DIY WG to a disassembled tweeter. For those people, IMO the Wavecor is about as good as off-the-shelf solutions get.
Hard to beat the directivity match if you get the midTweeter XO down to 300-500 Hz.
dave
I already gave the Monacor combo option. Visaton even provides measurements for their WG148 waveguide to be used In Boxsim. It’s not that hard actually.
Thank again everyone!!! I checked out the Zinger project Wolf_teeth, interesting approach to the crossover. Still working at getting my head around "directivity change if an 8" to ~1" driver" is used.
Well, first things first. My condenser mic arrived today along with the cables I need to connect the laptop my audio receiver, so I will be setting that up this week.
Once I have the actual measurements for the Pinnacle woofers I can start determining what crossover point is necessary.
More to come........
Well, first things first. My condenser mic arrived today along with the cables I need to connect the laptop my audio receiver, so I will be setting that up this week.
Once I have the actual measurements for the Pinnacle woofers I can start determining what crossover point is necessary.
More to come........
Attached is the freq graph of the 8" woofers used in my 2.5 Pinnacle tower. Nice smooth response up to 4K. Considering a crossover in the range of 2.2K and as high as 3.2K. At what point is a waveguide not necessary? I am not against using a wave guide it limits my tweeter choices. In my research there seem to be a number of successful applications of a dome tweeter with an 8" woofer without the need for a waveguide. ie - Alexander Audio Monitors. Anyway, just looking for any insight.
More to come ...
More to come ...
Last edited by a moderator:
Curious about what choices the OP made with this project?
Also, for anyone here with some first hand experience, how low do you think the SB26ADC + 6" Augerpro WG can be safely crossed in a 2-way? Please specify how you used it -- ie, matching woofer, slopes.
I'm considering pairing SB26ADC + 6" Augerpro WG with a Dayton Audio RS225-8 or custom spec'd Seas 6.5" whose FR looks closer to most 8" drivers than typical of its size (ie, it's flat to 2kHz but not higher). 1.5 kHz is my target xover point, preferably with 2nd order, but that's probably asking too much. If necessary, I can use a Wavecor TW030WA12, much lauded here for its low Fs & low xover capability but I prefer broader dispersion at 10 kHz & higher, which the 28~30mm domes just can't do.
Also, for anyone here with some first hand experience, how low do you think the SB26ADC + 6" Augerpro WG can be safely crossed in a 2-way? Please specify how you used it -- ie, matching woofer, slopes.
I'm considering pairing SB26ADC + 6" Augerpro WG with a Dayton Audio RS225-8 or custom spec'd Seas 6.5" whose FR looks closer to most 8" drivers than typical of its size (ie, it's flat to 2kHz but not higher). 1.5 kHz is my target xover point, preferably with 2nd order, but that's probably asking too much. If necessary, I can use a Wavecor TW030WA12, much lauded here for its low Fs & low xover capability but I prefer broader dispersion at 10 kHz & higher, which the 28~30mm domes just can't do.
The project has moved along nicely. The tweeter I went with was the Peerless by Tymphany XT25BG60-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter which I crossed over at 1600Hz. This tweeter is the Peerless version of the Scanspeak R2604/8330. I am still fine tuning the the 2nd order crossover with addition of an L-Pad on the tweeter The measurements have been encouraging. Thanks for your interest! Let me know if you would like any additional details.