On the other hand, two experienced listeners sitting side by side in front of the speakers hear much the same thing. if this weren’t true how could we make any progress? We’d be stuck in a rut.
An ordinary man has no means of deliverance.
An ordinary man has no means of deliverance.
My system does the opposite, little to no height on LEDR but massive enveloping environments in all directions on simple 2-channel nature recordings using j-disc, SASS, etc. microphone arrays. The speakers are full range passively on-axis equalised under +- 1.5 dB to nearly 10 kHz with very quick waterfall decay. IE no crossover related phase perturbances, vertical dispersion anomalies, etc.
The third option is the LEDR test as an instrument doesn't reflect what we hear.
Hi Bill, I don't know the answer to that. Will have to look into and get back to you. Also when you say 'test imaging,' does that include for depth?
EDIT: Just looked it up. Tried that years ago. Was not impressed. There are more useful tests, IMHO, but they involve trained listeners and real music.
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I would guess about >99% of symphony concert audience goes there to listen to the music and performance. That is what the concert is for. Same thing applies to people listening music at home.
You seem to have some fixation on measurements. Who has claimed that measurements capture reality? Measurements are mainly used to verify that the design and implementation is according to specifications. Most people (if not everybody) who design and implement audio devices also listen to them.
Sometimes in life I've been privy to the good fortune of getting to hang with people far more experienced than me. On one such occasion I was invited to a weekend afternoon system listening, at the home of one of the old DEC Audio forum participants. I recall he made a subtle change to his TT (not a cartridge swap...) which, on the following play, caused everyone except me to physically jump out of their seats in a visceral response of awe and disbelief.
As I didnt have that response myself, I could not hear what they heard, that got them so excited. My perception was not trained to their level. It was nice to get to see that these things can happen over something "little".
To the Objectivist; could the result of whatever was done have been measured by microphones in the room? Or would only trained human ears / brains suffice to discriminate?
Being of advanced age regarding hearing anyway, it's entirely possible I missed the window where both being trained and having excellent hearing exist simultaneously. So it's possible I couldnt hear whatever it was, even "if I tried" in my life today.
The takeaway wasnt to get trained to hear like those guys could, but simply to see a big reaction over a small change in Audio, that was beyond my own ear / brain's real-time comprehension.
As I didnt have that response myself, I could not hear what they heard, that got them so excited. My perception was not trained to their level. It was nice to get to see that these things can happen over something "little".
To the Objectivist; could the result of whatever was done have been measured by microphones in the room? Or would only trained human ears / brains suffice to discriminate?
Being of advanced age regarding hearing anyway, it's entirely possible I missed the window where both being trained and having excellent hearing exist simultaneously. So it's possible I couldnt hear whatever it was, even "if I tried" in my life today.
The takeaway wasnt to get trained to hear like those guys could, but simply to see a big reaction over a small change in Audio, that was beyond my own ear / brain's real-time comprehension.
Not sure if you noticed, I was responding to a particular claim, "measurements are paramount"
I will disagree.
Also, maybe its the person I was responding to who has some fixation on measurements?
For myself, I measure things. For example, I measured the timing margin of MarcelvdG's RTZ dac. Right on the edge, it was. Mainly I just don't let FFTs fool me into going in a wrong direction. IMHO too much of that can be like "the drunk under the streetlight bias" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect
Well, I'll break one of my rules and actually post, just in case someone is actually wanting to learn, but if you understand the scientific method, you would understand that an objective measurement can be built around listening, and not accept the measurement <> listening argument posited in this thread.
How does one measure entertainment, air, soundstage height, presence, separation of singers and instruments, bass structure and slam, musicality, liquidness, propulsiveness, sweetness, pop, snap and crackle?
Of course it can. Should be noted it will be of a statistical nature, which can be very scientific if done properly.
Then walk the walk. So far you have a history of posting only sighted subjective preferences which are far from objective.
I will keep NDA stuff NDA. There are things you are not privy to, so you have some tendency to compensate by jumping to conclusions.
If someone wants to PM me to work on setting up their own system, I will be happy to try to help them.
Other than that, I am limited to reporting general findings which I believe to be correct and true.
Beyond that, not up to me what I can say for now. Time should tell more. We'll see what happens over the next weeks and months.
If someone wants to PM me to work on setting up their own system, I will be happy to try to help them.
Other than that, I am limited to reporting general findings which I believe to be correct and true.
Beyond that, not up to me what I can say for now. Time should tell more. We'll see what happens over the next weeks and months.
Your subjective preferences are only correct and true to yourself and the repeated reference to some NDA stuff does not make them more convincing or general.
I think you have been around here long enough to know that the walk will never happen 🤣
I don't think this is always true. I have spent many hours critically listening with others and sometimes they notice things I do not, sometimes they miss something that I notice, sometimes our opinions align.
Military submarine related NDA?
Someone else had a similar modus operandi.......
Love the intrigue, will it all be revealed when the product emerges?
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