That's not what I would say "pretty well" 😉
When you can recognise there is a subwoofer then the setup is bad. As MOST setups, esp these set up by ear alone.
You have no chance to do a perfect setup by ear cause setting the delay/phase perfect is a precise task.
That sounds great! Now make space to put them in the right positions ...
You have 4 subs - use that as advantage! Look at site 19 and 20 (and the rest is also interesting)
https://www.harman.com/documents/multsubs_0.pdf
The best positions are 2 subs in the middle of front and back wall, 4 subs in the middle of the walls or in the corners or 1/4 wave away from corner (12). You should be able to do one of these positions!
If you need something different as a 6" midbass depends on your listening levels. But when you like the speaker ... get the subs up to 80-100Hz, do a perfect setup and give it a listen. (btw - normally you make bass a little louder, 3-6dB. Don't aim for ruler flat at all price, that can be a little boring)
Please don't. Not more is more in your situation. Doing stuff RIGHT is the way to go!
What sources do you listen to? Maybe a device like MiniDSP SHD or SHD Studio fits your chain? Put all digital sources directly into it and get a good quality A/D converter (I like RME but I'm a studio guy). Or just a FLEX unit. These are easy to use but you will still have a learn curve for all that stuff.
I felt inclined to react on this, sorry for the delay.
What is the impedance of a 10mH coil at -say- 100Hz? And the effect on a resonance only a few tens of Hz’s lower? D’ya really think DC resistance matters?
Thanks a bunch . I will try all of above . Can't deny that there is a thought on the back of my head since I'm getting responses from Euro side of the pond that assuming my 50m2 loose dwelling with opening to second floor would loosely be equivalent of 150 m2 Euro concrete wall apartment and all we need to get perfectly satisfactory midbass /bass performace is to buy a minimonitor with 17cm woofer and blend in subwoofer until you can't hear it. You guys are lucky over there😉
All the best.
All the best.
You NEED this...
It will make the construction of your shed irrelevant... just make sure to tie down the doors and windows when you turn it up to 10... nevermind 11..
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/as...woofer-70-000-off-msrp.3284740/#post-62842353
It will make the construction of your shed irrelevant... just make sure to tie down the doors and windows when you turn it up to 10... nevermind 11..
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/as...woofer-70-000-off-msrp.3284740/#post-62842353
Why do you think US audio systems are what they are ( mental disposition of US populace aside ) ;? )
Most of you who can't put anything bigger than a shoebox in your room do it because your girl is saying "No " and it's the law so just please be real in your comments ha ha.
PS . I had Electrovoice Patrician IV in this space and it was lovely . Could barely fit the chair in the leftover space but the sound was MAJESTIC !. A pair of Klipschorns which replaced it sounded like a mini-monitors comparably. Now I just want to experience the fake alure of High End sound with staging , imaging and the rest of the artificial shebang 🙂
Most of you who can't put anything bigger than a shoebox in your room do it because your girl is saying "No " and it's the law so just please be real in your comments ha ha.
PS . I had Electrovoice Patrician IV in this space and it was lovely . Could barely fit the chair in the leftover space but the sound was MAJESTIC !. A pair of Klipschorns which replaced it sounded like a mini-monitors comparably. Now I just want to experience the fake alure of High End sound with staging , imaging and the rest of the artificial shebang 🙂
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I am real in my comments.
I am being real in my comments.
(1) You got the room....
(2) Homes in the US are larger than they are in the EU (and most of the World) and not every wife/girlfriend is stuck with the "invisible audio" set up.
Case in point, we got not so "little" ADS L810 (rebuilt) in our bedroom... it is true we got minimonitors in our home offices (but that's near field listening at the computer).. however, our den has a 7.1 set up with large four -and a half- foot tall ( a foot wide and almost two feet deep ) left and right speakers and large center channel (four surrounds are built into the ceiling) and La Piece De Resistance... the living room: a whole wall of audio with NO coffee table. Magnepans, Audio Notes and Entec woofers.. with three, count them... three racks holding a bunch of equipment plus more storage to hold LPs in rotation and ancillary stuff.
Now, if I lived in another state, where I could build a larger room for my stereo, I would not have that 50" woofer, but I would most likely have a pair of dipole woofer arrays... something with like 8 5" drivers and 4 12 inch drivers.. each side... the question being.. could I get servo 12 inch woofers?
Or maybe just keep looking for a pair of Entec SW-1 woofers and take them to Tacoma to have the guy update them...
You know, my current SW-5 woofers long ago gave up their foam grills... and the Audio Notes do not have a grill... so YOU know that's a wall of sound equipment. Yet my wife doesn't seem to care so long as there's room for a Christmas Tree and we can fire up the fireplace.
I do, however, keep it all nice and tidy and clean... but that's us. We keep our house tidy and clean....
-So-
It looks like that's your own shed and you don't have to worry about domestic tranquility... so just build yourself a stack of woofers and mid woofers...
https://gr-research.com/product-category/sub-series/
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/diy.html
I am being real in my comments.
(1) You got the room....
(2) Homes in the US are larger than they are in the EU (and most of the World) and not every wife/girlfriend is stuck with the "invisible audio" set up.
Case in point, we got not so "little" ADS L810 (rebuilt) in our bedroom... it is true we got minimonitors in our home offices (but that's near field listening at the computer).. however, our den has a 7.1 set up with large four -and a half- foot tall ( a foot wide and almost two feet deep ) left and right speakers and large center channel (four surrounds are built into the ceiling) and La Piece De Resistance... the living room: a whole wall of audio with NO coffee table. Magnepans, Audio Notes and Entec woofers.. with three, count them... three racks holding a bunch of equipment plus more storage to hold LPs in rotation and ancillary stuff.
Now, if I lived in another state, where I could build a larger room for my stereo, I would not have that 50" woofer, but I would most likely have a pair of dipole woofer arrays... something with like 8 5" drivers and 4 12 inch drivers.. each side... the question being.. could I get servo 12 inch woofers?
Or maybe just keep looking for a pair of Entec SW-1 woofers and take them to Tacoma to have the guy update them...
You know, my current SW-5 woofers long ago gave up their foam grills... and the Audio Notes do not have a grill... so YOU know that's a wall of sound equipment. Yet my wife doesn't seem to care so long as there's room for a Christmas Tree and we can fire up the fireplace.
I do, however, keep it all nice and tidy and clean... but that's us. We keep our house tidy and clean....
-So-
It looks like that's your own shed and you don't have to worry about domestic tranquility... so just build yourself a stack of woofers and mid woofers...
https://gr-research.com/product-category/sub-series/
https://www.rythmikaudio.com/diy.html
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I know you real in your comments . I worked on ADS L880 lately and given them to my friend. One of few girls with genuine interest in music I've met.
I have Audio Note E kit speakers in Snell II cabs. Tried it briefly and decided too small for the space . 200 square feet is probably max they should be put in . But I didn't have bass towers at that time so maybe I should try again but they have no imaging qualities to speak about. I also have Living Voice Avatars . The same applies and they really should be positioned on a long wall which I don't have. MBL embodies everything I used to hate in modern audio . Thick dead MDF cab, dead sounding drivers and dead acoustic concept of dead drivers choked down to 84 dB . BUT since I'm getting old and deaf I like the piano finish , stadium size stage and shimmering upper range and also that they are deadly uniform in the passband once you account for size restrictions.
All the best
I have Audio Note E kit speakers in Snell II cabs. Tried it briefly and decided too small for the space . 200 square feet is probably max they should be put in . But I didn't have bass towers at that time so maybe I should try again but they have no imaging qualities to speak about. I also have Living Voice Avatars . The same applies and they really should be positioned on a long wall which I don't have. MBL embodies everything I used to hate in modern audio . Thick dead MDF cab, dead sounding drivers and dead acoustic concept of dead drivers choked down to 84 dB . BUT since I'm getting old and deaf I like the piano finish , stadium size stage and shimmering upper range and also that they are deadly uniform in the passband once you account for size restrictions.
All the best
My room is 21.5x14x8. The speakers are on far 14' wall.
The Audio Note AN K/LX are against the back wall and about 2 (L) or 3 (R)feet from the side walls (the whole stereo is shifted one foot from center). Currently they are driven full range, with Entec SW-5s when I feel the need for 11. Amps are either DIY clone FW F4 or a SissySIT. With a CJ ET3SE that runs about 35wpc ( F4s are pure current amps, no voltage gain).
With that set up, the little ANs put out a very good, really good soundstate.
I also have a couple of pairs Acoustic Energy AE1s and a pair of Elac Unifi2 UB52 which I can place, out onto the room, on Target 24" stands. When I run these, I have to use a more powerful amp.. so I dig into a pair of clone A5s, A2s or a CJ MF2100. Power is very important with these little guys.
All of those speakers, when driven with the Entecs, result in very full range sound and outstanding soundstaging. Indeed, the AN reach deeper and it amazes me how well they soundstage in that location.
I would say that, perhaps, the MBLs are simply not the speakers for you...
PS- The ADS L810 speakers do not soundstage very well, they do the left to right OK, but there is no depth. But that's OK, they were designed in the mid 70s and I've owned them since new... back in '78, so they are not being sold. They sound fine for what I need them for... indeed, they sound much better than I use them for.
The Audio Note AN K/LX are against the back wall and about 2 (L) or 3 (R)feet from the side walls (the whole stereo is shifted one foot from center). Currently they are driven full range, with Entec SW-5s when I feel the need for 11. Amps are either DIY clone FW F4 or a SissySIT. With a CJ ET3SE that runs about 35wpc ( F4s are pure current amps, no voltage gain).
With that set up, the little ANs put out a very good, really good soundstate.
I also have a couple of pairs Acoustic Energy AE1s and a pair of Elac Unifi2 UB52 which I can place, out onto the room, on Target 24" stands. When I run these, I have to use a more powerful amp.. so I dig into a pair of clone A5s, A2s or a CJ MF2100. Power is very important with these little guys.
All of those speakers, when driven with the Entecs, result in very full range sound and outstanding soundstaging. Indeed, the AN reach deeper and it amazes me how well they soundstage in that location.
I would say that, perhaps, the MBLs are simply not the speakers for you...
PS- The ADS L810 speakers do not soundstage very well, they do the left to right OK, but there is no depth. But that's OK, they were designed in the mid 70s and I've owned them since new... back in '78, so they are not being sold. They sound fine for what I need them for... indeed, they sound much better than I use them for.
AN K sports 8" driver in small closed box and is one of the best monitor speakers if it comes to quality of tone . It has a relatively wide front , it's fairly efficient and does not reach deep. It's much better suited for separate bass support than MBL monitor. It's $10 tweeter crossed below resonant frequency is adequate. I briefly had a silver version of that speaker at home. It was OK.
I probably complain more about MBL than I should considering its performance.
I probably complain more about MBL than I should considering its performance.
The trick is to have a woofer (*) that is "fast" to keep up with the little guys. What I like about the little ANs is how quick their bass sounds. So, if the speaker goes down into the high 40Hz realm then a fast woofer will merge nicely. The rating for the AN K is 50Hz at -6db which is perfect for running a fast woofer under it.
Ergo... Entecs... or the links I gave you earlier. Those are also servo feedback woofers.
BTW, those Entecs merge extremely well with the Maggies too.. which is quite a feat when you think about it. Most woofers are laggards when it comes to keep up with that light weight panel.
Hmm.. so you don't like the $10 tweeter, huh? And you had the silver version.... oy vey. If it weren't for what you did -not- pay for the MBLs.... I paid $1700 for my speakers, used, still under warranty, with the special order burl finish.. I figured at that price, they were very reasonably priced.
I'm not quite sold on the silver though. Mind you, I have not heard them. Indeed, I bought mine only because I needed a more efficient speaker to drive with the SissySIT and F4 and based on the reviews and the price I figured it was worth a try. And the burl finish is wonderful... we both loved it.
Besides, the Wilson WATTS/puppies that someone put out on the curb were too big to fit into the trunk of the Civic.
BTW- I keep thinking that I should buy the next pair of AN J/LX that come along... they run under $4K (with stands). I'm not quite sure about the SPe version as at that point I'd rather get more amplifiers (As an audiophile... I'm more into the "amps" that I am into the "speakers"). Well priced, these speakers sell quite well. I could easily sell my AN-K for what I paid. ( Fat chance I'd sell them though... ).
(*) Actually, what is the crossover to the tweeter? I think those AN K speakers operate mostly as a widebander with a tweeter on top, huh?
Ergo... Entecs... or the links I gave you earlier. Those are also servo feedback woofers.
BTW, those Entecs merge extremely well with the Maggies too.. which is quite a feat when you think about it. Most woofers are laggards when it comes to keep up with that light weight panel.
Hmm.. so you don't like the $10 tweeter, huh? And you had the silver version.... oy vey. If it weren't for what you did -not- pay for the MBLs.... I paid $1700 for my speakers, used, still under warranty, with the special order burl finish.. I figured at that price, they were very reasonably priced.
I'm not quite sold on the silver though. Mind you, I have not heard them. Indeed, I bought mine only because I needed a more efficient speaker to drive with the SissySIT and F4 and based on the reviews and the price I figured it was worth a try. And the burl finish is wonderful... we both loved it.
Besides, the Wilson WATTS/puppies that someone put out on the curb were too big to fit into the trunk of the Civic.
BTW- I keep thinking that I should buy the next pair of AN J/LX that come along... they run under $4K (with stands). I'm not quite sure about the SPe version as at that point I'd rather get more amplifiers (As an audiophile... I'm more into the "amps" that I am into the "speakers"). Well priced, these speakers sell quite well. I could easily sell my AN-K for what I paid. ( Fat chance I'd sell them though... ).
(*) Actually, what is the crossover to the tweeter? I think those AN K speakers operate mostly as a widebander with a tweeter on top, huh?
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No prob.s. 🙂
It is NOT about the objective *result, instead it is about the common SUBJECTIVE results.
*anymore than the use of active as opposed to passive, or a high current capable amplifier as opposed to one that isn’t, or a high eff. driver as opposed to one that isn’t, or the use of a very high tensil strength baffle as opposed to common MDF, etc..
-so yes: it really matters. (or at least I and others have heard a preference, often described as a very obvious difference.) Though I would note that we aren’t talking about just .1 ohm differences (..something closer to 1 ohm in difference as you might find with a cheap iron core inductor vs. a typical air-core inductor, though I’ve heard differences with as little a change as .3 ohms in a similar design implementation.)
Oh , I did like the cheap AN- k tweeter enough.
It's well implemented and that means a lot . And it's a traditional old fashioned speaker with standard crossover in a lucky mix many people find appealing. Silver versions were my friend's .
He also has An- E spe hemp model . Both sets bought by me on used market since he barely speaks English. I prefer old LX version with more amp than 2a3 or 300b can provide than SpE HE which are geared towards Hong Kong apartments since Audio Note disdains US Neanderthals who needs 2 tons of mdf to feel they are getting their money worth. Yer know , it's the same if it comes to restaurants portions, the size of hamburger and ice cream🙂
I was joking about getting MBL for free on the curb. Unfortunately tha man was still alive so I couldn't make a deal with a widow . I paid $700 and drove 700 miles both ways to get them.
I consider it a curb pickup given the legendary status of the brand.
All the best
I once did a U-turn longer than that (Houston to El Paso), but the U-turn itself wasn’t on purpose. 😆
I will buy a card box and will kick it when the bass note supposed to come. I'm only afraid I'm not as fast as I used to be..
I forgot that I have 4x TAD 1602 woofers in the closet and C.A.R T3 boxes serving as a plant stands waiting 3 years for me to gather the strength and will to flip them over and install the guts.
I forgot that I have 4x TAD 1602 woofers in the closet and C.A.R T3 boxes serving as a plant stands waiting 3 years for me to gather the strength and will to flip them over and install the guts.
Because you don't want a slow woofer....
Come on... go listen to a Magnepan and then you'll understand. Try putting a 'slow' woofer on a Magnepan and you'll understand.
The last thing you want is a overripe bass with a heavy, thumping, boom! boom! sound.... This is not an AVR/HT site, after all... what did you expect?
Make that linkwitz riley "passive active" high-pass 90hz for the speakers so they blend perfekt with your subs. Drop the other nonsense about rebuild.
Dont your sub have level, phase and frequency dials? I use an old 12band eq on my woofers, sounds awesome. High pass is mandatory. Too expensive to make 90hz passive crossover. Do it between preamp and power sektion.
Dont your sub have level, phase and frequency dials? I use an old 12band eq on my woofers, sounds awesome. High pass is mandatory. Too expensive to make 90hz passive crossover. Do it between preamp and power sektion.
But some people wants that Tony😄 Thats how they set their eq. Actually I think I also accentuate lows a bit when eq'ing - Maybe more low midds.
Cheers!
Cheers!
Width of the room is the main problem. 7m x 7m space is divided by half with a 3m wall to separate kitchen area from the living room area so I have a U shaped room with a lot of volume but small space to put the speakers in. The width is only 3.3m and subs are 61cm wide . I cant set them up in line with the monitor speakers and they work OK in the corners. As it was mentioned before there are quite a few rather nasty room modes sucking out the bass to a null in certain points of the room. I never thought of rebuilding anything but just adding another slimmer box to ease the transition between the 17cm woofer and a subbass towers. In my age a man learns to compromise although I met an old lady who said "f..ck it I've been compromising all my life and it lead me nowhere so I'm not going to compromise when I'm close to kicking the bucket"