I'm getting deaf with age and work related issues. Worse it becomes more I like mainstream electronics and speakers most of you guys love so much but can't afford 🙂
I found on the curb a pair of MBL 311E piano finish speakers which I quite like even though they sport 17cm Davis kevlar midwoofer , material I used to hate. They do well in the "mimicking bigger speakers " department mainly thanks to severe shelving the efficiency to mere 84db/4 Ohm . Manufacturer quotes 44Hz . I do not want to touch the crossover in the speakers I just may introduce 6db high pass filter . I would like to add some true bass , mid bass from at least 10" woofer . Separate enclosure bi amped . I'd either replace stands with the box or build two tower boxes standing next to the speakers in unfortunately narrow but long space (10 ft wide). Is it something worth pursuing or I'd be wasting my time? I dismiss subwoofers. I have those in the corners of the room. Sealed , tight but it's not gelling with mains in the proper way. I need a driver in direct line with kevlar midbass.
https://stereonomono.blogspot.com/2018/12/mbl-311e-speakers.html
I found on the curb a pair of MBL 311E piano finish speakers which I quite like even though they sport 17cm Davis kevlar midwoofer , material I used to hate. They do well in the "mimicking bigger speakers " department mainly thanks to severe shelving the efficiency to mere 84db/4 Ohm . Manufacturer quotes 44Hz . I do not want to touch the crossover in the speakers I just may introduce 6db high pass filter . I would like to add some true bass , mid bass from at least 10" woofer . Separate enclosure bi amped . I'd either replace stands with the box or build two tower boxes standing next to the speakers in unfortunately narrow but long space (10 ft wide). Is it something worth pursuing or I'd be wasting my time? I dismiss subwoofers. I have those in the corners of the room. Sealed , tight but it's not gelling with mains in the proper way. I need a driver in direct line with kevlar midbass.
https://stereonomono.blogspot.com/2018/12/mbl-311e-speakers.html
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The specs of the monitor are in the link. Cross points are 2.5KH and 30 kh I didn't check the tunning on the monitor I suspect 40-50 hz . I thought of just rolling it off at 80-100 hz 6db ( cap ) to free monitor from bass range and introduce a sort of bass solution . What would it be ,it will have to be determined. Bass towers in the corners have 4 x 10 " Scanspeak woofers in each corner rolled 24db at 60 hz just to add " ambient" bass . Old Avantgarde bandpass subs are not connected. It's not the bass solution I'm looking for
I will eventually clean the mess, maybe ...
I will eventually clean the mess, maybe ...
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OK, for example:
sqrt(60*2500) = ~387.3 Hz mean = ~13543/pi/387.3 = ~11.13" eff. dia., so 12 - 15" frame
sqrt(80*2500) = ~447.2 Hz mean = ~13543/pi/447.2 = ~9.64" eff. dia. = 12" frame
Either size, there's plenty of high SQ mid-bass woofers to choose from; just a few 12": https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-12-woofers/
edit: Hmm, maybe not so many in 15" size..........
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-15-woofers/
sqrt(60*2500) = ~387.3 Hz mean = ~13543/pi/387.3 = ~11.13" eff. dia., so 12 - 15" frame
sqrt(80*2500) = ~447.2 Hz mean = ~13543/pi/447.2 = ~9.64" eff. dia. = 12" frame
Either size, there's plenty of high SQ mid-bass woofers to choose from; just a few 12": https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-12-woofers/
edit: Hmm, maybe not so many in 15" size..........
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-15-woofers/
Gm
I have only 10 ft width of the room . I can accommodate 12" as a base for monitor or max 10" or 2x10" as a tower next to the monitor.
As is the monitors image like a gangbusters.
I guess I only have a few years left in the hobby so I' d like to enjoy that artificial effects I never cared for before like a cruise trip for octogenarians🙂
I have only 10 ft width of the room . I can accommodate 12" as a base for monitor or max 10" or 2x10" as a tower next to the monitor.
As is the monitors image like a gangbusters.
I guess I only have a few years left in the hobby so I' d like to enjoy that artificial effects I never cared for before like a cruise trip for octogenarians🙂
I've been running a pair of Entec SW-5 "woofers" since the mid 90s. They blend very well with English monitors... and are fast enough to work with Maggies. With my Acoustic Energy AE1s or little Audio Notes they make a complete system with great imaging and very, VERY good sound... as full bass as you can imagine... the kick drum and double bass come through clean and powerful.
They are NOT subwoofers.
So perhaps you need something like that? Active servo woofers (Entecs came with their own crossovers too, you could choose to run the main speakers though the high pass or full range ).
If you look at HiFiShark.com, you can see Entecs pop up every so often and they are not expensive ( forget the High Falutin'resellers flippers ) but shipping is expensive because they are HEAVY.
They are NOT subwoofers.
So perhaps you need something like that? Active servo woofers (Entecs came with their own crossovers too, you could choose to run the main speakers though the high pass or full range ).
If you look at HiFiShark.com, you can see Entecs pop up every so often and they are not expensive ( forget the High Falutin'
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Crap , closing local audio store had one entec sub with drivers in need of new surrounds . They wanted to give it away for free and there was no takers. Usually I take everything if it's free ( as you can see on the picture ) but this time I decided to show restraint and prove myself that I can resist , meh 🙂
Did you consider the issue could be room acoustics related and throwing more bass speakers in the equation could bring you nothing? Furthermore, how can you be sure those MBL’s still perform like they once have? Chances are the suspension and/or surround of the Davis units have deteriorated, leaving you essentially with a midrange to high speaker.
I would rather invest in some simple measuring gear and possibly some (digital?) EQ. Even a simple Dayton or MicW ‘plug into your phone’ microphone plus a pink noise source brings you more info than your ears ever will.
I would rather invest in some simple measuring gear and possibly some (digital?) EQ. Even a simple Dayton or MicW ‘plug into your phone’ microphone plus a pink noise source brings you more info than your ears ever will.
I had new surrounds go into the Entecs. A local speaker repair shop did it.
They are really good sounding.
The space has 50 square meters with opening into second level . Card box wooden skeleton with floating wooden floors over high crawlspace American dwelling .No bass reinforcement as you experience in Euro bunker houses.
Small Mbl does really well for its size and the bass from boxes in the corners is shaking the foundations of the shed . What's missing is the midbass, upper bass definition and coherence between the Kevlar midwoofer , midbass and lower range.
I think I need a direct radiating woofer of some diameter in line with monitors. Not a subwoofer firing into floor , not bandpass sub firing through ports and not fairly distant woofer towers actin as sub. If I could afford MBL 300E I'd buy it or better I'd look on the curbs for one . It has the same driver selection in the upper ranges but adds two 8" woofers. I realize I won't be able to achieve the same level of integration. Monitor speakers are always made to compromise lower range in a pleasant manner and you can't correct the tuning without redesigned project which takes more skill needed most here will admit to.
I do have RTA
Dang.. nice curb in your neighborhood.
All we get on the curbs in my neighborhood are Wilsons and Magicos.
All we get on the curbs in my neighborhood are Wilsons and Magicos.
For myself I would always say dipole, but:
Sealed vertical array beside the loudspeaker. Smaller drivers with a Qts near .5.
Maybe 4 of these:
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/speaker-parts/anarchy7-8ohm.html
http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/EX-Anarchy-TS.gif
http://www.zaphaudio.com/temp/EX-Anarchy-HD.gif
That Theta Gen VIII Mark III and MBL 1521 , digital front end $25k retail some years ago - $500 .
All you need to do is move to Detroits ghetto. Living cost pretty much nothing , blowjob $5 and the rest you can happily spend on Audio🙂
If you have RTA, what does it say? And if bass management was as easy as you seem to think, we all would have built metal stud listening rooms… but I just meant: did you check sound pressure levels in your listening spot and if yes, what came out?
I didn't say the bass management is easy only that skeleton house with suspended floors offer different set of challenges to a concrete foundation, brick wall houses for which Euro speakers like MBL are built and optimized. I have no complaints about performance of those monitors related to their size . I do not complain about the bass towers either but because I like the monitors out in the room and bass towers in the corners I have the impression of compromised midbass performance although overall sound is balanced with nothing sticking out to my severely compromised ears.
I do not think it's something fixable within current configuration that's why I didn't even bother to measure anything. I experienced a few vintage 12, 15" midbass drivers and still have Klipshorn K-horns with altec drivers in the opposite corners to learn how midbass can sound. I dont expect that level of performance from such modest system so I only really ask if trying to get a decent midbass performance from the system as presented with addition of another box is achievable or its always going to be a half solution not really worthy of effort and expenses. I can't redesign the speaker from the ground up and hardly anybody here can actually.
Regards
I do not think it's something fixable within current configuration that's why I didn't even bother to measure anything. I experienced a few vintage 12, 15" midbass drivers and still have Klipshorn K-horns with altec drivers in the opposite corners to learn how midbass can sound. I dont expect that level of performance from such modest system so I only really ask if trying to get a decent midbass performance from the system as presented with addition of another box is achievable or its always going to be a half solution not really worthy of effort and expenses. I can't redesign the speaker from the ground up and hardly anybody here can actually.
Regards
I understand , but at 24db slope at 60hz active crossover it won't matter much in reality in the confined space. It's not about filing up the missing bottom extension of the monitor speakers . It's about mitigating shortcomings of 17cm midbass " boomer " by restricting its range and inserting a more realistic sounding 10" + driver into the mix and what are the chances of such endeavor ? If you are experienced speakers builder, tell me if such project has a chance of success without extensive modification to a monitors requiring re-design of the crossover. Usually 17cm mids are crossed at 250-350 hz in 99% of big speakers . Here they are supported by a port tuning all the way to 43 hz .
Your argument seem to imply that by skilful application of subwoofer I will equal that performance in midbass region.
Your argument seem to imply that by skilful application of subwoofer I will equal that performance in midbass region.
Here is the solution to proper midbass in miniature room less than 12 square meters .
Big rehdeko stand mounted speakers sporting 10 inch woofers in corners of the room. The secret ? 100Hz Fs of the full range woofers and rolling down from 60Hz frequency curve of the speakers. Drawback? Gotta give up the imaging and staging effect. It is a much different sound than a pair of minimonitors in the same room.
Big rehdeko stand mounted speakers sporting 10 inch woofers in corners of the room. The secret ? 100Hz Fs of the full range woofers and rolling down from 60Hz frequency curve of the speakers. Drawback? Gotta give up the imaging and staging effect. It is a much different sound than a pair of minimonitors in the same room.
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Or you could get Audio Notes and place them against the wall and the corner in a small room.. or near the corner in a larger room ( mine is 14' wide ).
I could not live without soundstaging...
Sometimes you gotta get your speakers to match your room.
Of course, if they're free....
I could not live without soundstaging...
Sometimes you gotta get your speakers to match your room.
Of course, if they're free....
Only a pair of K 's would work in the small bedroom and I had a pair of Snell K in that room . Rehdeko's are way better , true 96dB but also much more love / hate type of product.
I can easily live without soundstaging but it's nice to have if possible.
Nah , I had to work my A..s off to get Rehdekos . Found seller in EU , paid in advance 2k Euro to a stranger . Book a plane a year later , buy 4 suitcase. 2 for speakers, 2 for stands, pack the Shebang , pay the crooks on the airport who only inform you that only the first extra bag is $100 but forget to mention that any over that is $200 .
Fly it back to US to entertain custom officers and finally realize that they are only suitable for bedroom system ,meh 🙂
I can easily live without soundstaging but it's nice to have if possible.
Nah , I had to work my A..s off to get Rehdekos . Found seller in EU , paid in advance 2k Euro to a stranger . Book a plane a year later , buy 4 suitcase. 2 for speakers, 2 for stands, pack the Shebang , pay the crooks on the airport who only inform you that only the first extra bag is $100 but forget to mention that any over that is $200 .
Fly it back to US to entertain custom officers and finally realize that they are only suitable for bedroom system ,meh 🙂