Hi all,
In humble need for recomendation here 🙂
Room setup (see image):
However, I do not have sound system, and want to build a set of speakers (marked S1+S2).
So far I am thinking I would settle for a stereo solid state amp (would probably buy used one from older times) and a pair of speakers.
I have done 4 sets of speakers by now (all were full-range, would love to try something new now), so it can be of (slightly) harder design/setup to increase the challange 🙂))
The only requirements:
In humble need for recomendation here 🙂
Room setup (see image):
- ~6x6m basement (2.25m hight) with projector
- 2*4m screen, give or take.
- soft materials (so far, - can be upgraded): acoustic curtains (marked in green) on both sides, carpet in the middle, sofa in the back
However, I do not have sound system, and want to build a set of speakers (marked S1+S2).
So far I am thinking I would settle for a stereo solid state amp (would probably buy used one from older times) and a pair of speakers.
I have done 4 sets of speakers by now (all were full-range, would love to try something new now), so it can be of (slightly) harder design/setup to increase the challange 🙂))
The only requirements:
- not bigger than 40cm in depth
- not wider than 80cm
- can be as high as needed (can be floor standing, can be on "legs") - as long as it fits in the room (2.25m is limit)
- a pair should not exceed 1500usd (max 2000usd) in price
- what they will play: anything on TV/Netflix/Apple TV.
Size can support a 500 Hz horn with 3/4" thick cab panels, so add a 15" or preferably dual/channel for corner loaded vented/sealed/(ML)TL floor standers with horns centered at 2/3 screen height for near THX reference audio (need dedicated subs for LFE) or pick kits from here.
Thanks for a quick replay. What about enclosures - any advice for them? I think I am still not that advanced to draw-up my own... 🙂))
You're welcome!
We're pretty much centric to some version of column/tower (TL) speakers, so short of (re)searching these and its vented variants (MLTL, MLhorn), it would need to be designed by any number of us based on chosen woofer, where 2/3 screen height is relative to the floor, etc..
Note that ideally we want the speakers and listening position (LP) to be at a room's odd harmonics (H, W, D), so ideally need a dimensioned floor plan + height, which is required to ideally put the 2/3 screen height at an odd harmonic also.
We're pretty much centric to some version of column/tower (TL) speakers, so short of (re)searching these and its vented variants (MLTL, MLhorn), it would need to be designed by any number of us based on chosen woofer, where 2/3 screen height is relative to the floor, etc..
Note that ideally we want the speakers and listening position (LP) to be at a room's odd harmonics (H, W, D), so ideally need a dimensioned floor plan + height, which is required to ideally put the 2/3 screen height at an odd harmonic also.
Congratulations, your room is well-placed for a home theatre setup. It is worth noting that when the screen is projected, one could easily include a centre channel if desired, without disturbing anything else.
However, I would also recommend a baffle wall for proper bass and stereo imaging.
https://blogs.qsc.com/cinema/2020/05/21/hows-and-whys-of-baffle-walls/?lang=nl
Many readymade PA / cinema loudspeakers would easily satisfy these requirements, including the physical dimensions and pricing, especially since it is plain stereo.
You do get ready home theaters, if they suit your taste.
From the dimensions, about 40 WRMS should be enough, bearing in mind low absorbance from the walls.
Speakers, from new or old stereo systems, will work.
What about the amp, and the inputs to the amp?
You can make a 2.1 system with three chip amps, well within budget.
For sub woofer, try at car stereo sellers, might get a good deal.
And mount the large drivers at about head height (sitting) for best effect.
You could also mount the speakers near the sofa, like a giant headphone (that is going to get many comments).
You have not marked the door, be sure to treat that as well.
From the dimensions, about 40 WRMS should be enough, bearing in mind low absorbance from the walls.
Speakers, from new or old stereo systems, will work.
What about the amp, and the inputs to the amp?
You can make a 2.1 system with three chip amps, well within budget.
For sub woofer, try at car stereo sellers, might get a good deal.
And mount the large drivers at about head height (sitting) for best effect.
You could also mount the speakers near the sofa, like a giant headphone (that is going to get many comments).
You have not marked the door, be sure to treat that as well.
Thanks for the replays 😉 Nice idea with "large headphones" 🙂))
The door is behind one of the acoustic curtains; that should not be of problem.
Amp and its inputs - still to be determined 🙂)
I know many readily available stereo systems/speakers would work, but I would love to DIY the speakers myself... So very much in need for specific enclosure suggestions 🙂 Could be full range, could be multi-speaker enclosures.
The door is behind one of the acoustic curtains; that should not be of problem.
Amp and its inputs - still to be determined 🙂)
I know many readily available stereo systems/speakers would work, but I would love to DIY the speakers myself... So very much in need for specific enclosure suggestions 🙂 Could be full range, could be multi-speaker enclosures.
https://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Mezzo-Calpamos.html
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/asathor-a-jbl-4367-clone.367215/#post-6515733
You could also try replicating legendary commercial models like the Klipsch Jubilee / LaScala, JBL Everest etc.
Ditto W.E./Lansing/Altec still the most popular in some areas of the world, though cost wise best to use modern ~ inexpensive prosound component variants.
Econowave has some fans. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/2023-econowave.396586/
There were positive comments about the $89 Eminence P2002-8 CD (compression driver) in a recent thread. I believe Pi speakers uses that. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/econowave-style-15.400662/
Here is a discussion of copying the JBL 4722 www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/334757-cover-spectrum-spl-low-distortion-2-a-2.html
I find used Peavey SP2-XT great sounding for ~$500 the pair but they are 2" too deep. SP2(2004) sound even better, I got a pair for $400 +$100 travel (300 miles R.T.) but they are 5" too deep. Both roll of at 17 khz, higher than my tinitus threshold of 14 khz. -3db @ 54 hx. These are 100 db 1w1m so a 35 w/ch amp could drive me out of the room with volume. I use 1/8 watt, 1 vac, on soft orchestra passages. These go on poles above your head, they project the highs down from over head.
Reason I'm building, Peaveys have pawn shop value and I need really ugly clones that nobody would cart off. The SP2-XT were carted off 9/20. Source of used JBL4365/67 has only been theater bankrupcy sales of 9 unit lots, specifically 1200 miles away.
There were positive comments about the $89 Eminence P2002-8 CD (compression driver) in a recent thread. I believe Pi speakers uses that. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/econowave-style-15.400662/
Here is a discussion of copying the JBL 4722 www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/334757-cover-spectrum-spl-low-distortion-2-a-2.html
I find used Peavey SP2-XT great sounding for ~$500 the pair but they are 2" too deep. SP2(2004) sound even better, I got a pair for $400 +$100 travel (300 miles R.T.) but they are 5" too deep. Both roll of at 17 khz, higher than my tinitus threshold of 14 khz. -3db @ 54 hx. These are 100 db 1w1m so a 35 w/ch amp could drive me out of the room with volume. I use 1/8 watt, 1 vac, on soft orchestra passages. These go on poles above your head, they project the highs down from over head.
Reason I'm building, Peaveys have pawn shop value and I need really ugly clones that nobody would cart off. The SP2-XT were carted off 9/20. Source of used JBL4365/67 has only been theater bankrupcy sales of 9 unit lots, specifically 1200 miles away.
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Thanks all for the responses, I have plenty of options to do my research on by now 🙂)
Last question: what do people think of these?:
Last question: what do people think of these?:
- cinema 10: https://toidsdiyaudio.com/product/cinema-10-speaker-plans/
- big yellow taxi MK2: https://www.donhighend.de/?page_id=2660
The cinema 10 link locked up my computer but not before I saw they were crossing a celestion 1" CD at 80 hz. That would IMHO limit the AES power of the combo to 10 watts? I didn't catch the part # but you can drive a CD below resonance only with great care.
Big yellow taxi was in german, had a nice on axis freq response but where were the +-45 degree versions? Where was HarmonicDistortion chart? This is what I'm listening to from 3.7 m away in my music room at <5 w.
Rated AES power is 500 w.
Big yellow taxi was in german, had a nice on axis freq response but where were the +-45 degree versions? Where was HarmonicDistortion chart? This is what I'm listening to from 3.7 m away in my music room at <5 w.
Rated AES power is 500 w.
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A radian coaxial speaker will give you the dynamics needed for home theater and you can score them pretty cheap of eBay. The 15" version would be best for home theater huge powerful dynamic sound is what you want these will deliver. crossover schematics should be available from Radian website https://www.ebay.com/itm/203747328750?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&fromMakeTrack=true
Jo, you misread that. Toid recommends crossing the speaker to your subs at 80hz. The midbass/ cd crossover is between 1.2-1.4 khz, I don't remember the exact frequency. Fortaz, I have 15 inch coax that I love for music, in a treated room, but in my big resonant open room, I prefer my narrower directivity horns, with heavy toe, crossed in front of my listening position for movies, videos, etc. Less reflections, and I'm a sweet spot listener. If you're going to treat your theater room well, you may love a big coax, but if it will be a lively room, you may prefer a higher di, narrower pattern horn/ waveguide setup. The width of your seating coverage will play into your choice as well. Glenn.
Thanks all. It got a bit too complex in last couple of responses for my level of education, but I appreciate the help very much 😊
The room will be treated to 7.5/10 level, give or take (where 10 is perfect, and 1 is echo everywhere).
The design of the enclosures is also important, so that's why I am looking for specific drawings, which please my (subjective) eye.
I found Cinema 10 and BYT MK2 and Asathor aesthetically pleasing, so I am simply trying to understand, how well will they sound on practical levels (for example I will not be listening to complex music with them - it's mostly for TV/Netflix, so some missed nuances is OK). What I would be missing out with ones, vs what I would be missing out with others.
So far I am not able to deduct, which ones would fit my (somewhat basic) needs the best, without too much extra hassle:
Would be really thankful if somebody could elaborate on pros/cons of them for my case?
The room will be treated to 7.5/10 level, give or take (where 10 is perfect, and 1 is echo everywhere).
The design of the enclosures is also important, so that's why I am looking for specific drawings, which please my (subjective) eye.
I found Cinema 10 and BYT MK2 and Asathor aesthetically pleasing, so I am simply trying to understand, how well will they sound on practical levels (for example I will not be listening to complex music with them - it's mostly for TV/Netflix, so some missed nuances is OK). What I would be missing out with ones, vs what I would be missing out with others.
So far I am not able to deduct, which ones would fit my (somewhat basic) needs the best, without too much extra hassle:
- Cinema 10
- BYT MK2
- Asathor
Would be really thankful if somebody could elaborate on pros/cons of them for my case?
https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speaker-kits/titan-815lx-kit.html
These have Baltic Birch flat packs, are right at your size and expense numbers. No guess work, and will work with a 2 channel stereo amp. These would rock in your space. You may want to add subs later if you want the dinosaur stomps to rumble your guts, but you may be very happy without. I wouldn't hesitate to put these in a theater build. I love my diysoundgroup Vortex 15 coax's. They are miles beyond the cost for their performance. Glenn
These have Baltic Birch flat packs, are right at your size and expense numbers. No guess work, and will work with a 2 channel stereo amp. These would rock in your space. You may want to add subs later if you want the dinosaur stomps to rumble your guts, but you may be very happy without. I wouldn't hesitate to put these in a theater build. I love my diysoundgroup Vortex 15 coax's. They are miles beyond the cost for their performance. Glenn
Are you planning to use subs, and also, what volume level are you wanting? The Cinema10 doesn't extend beyond 80 hz much on the low end, where the Asathor goes down to below 50 hz. Both of these will have drastically more volume output than the BYT mill, but the BYT has deeper low end extension. I would lean towards the Cin. or Asathor. Cin 10 only if you are adding subs. If you don't want to play high volume levels, and don't want to add subs, then the BYT could work. The other two use higher sensitivity pro drivers, and output. volume wise, is in a whole different league if you play loud, but at the expense of low end extension. ( bass) Glenn.
thanks for the replies, Glenn!
Subs: I am still not certain about adding subs. Most likely will look for an old school 2.1 amp, and in the beginning will use only a pair of speakers with no sub attached. And then see how it goes, and attach sub on the go after a year or two if needed - so would be great to have that option available in any case.
Sitting vs lively - it's a cinema room setup. It will always be very static viewing/listening, right on that couch 🙂
Sound levels will not go too high - I have neighbour right behind the wall where the couch is 🙂) However, if BYT will not "fill up the room" (that is almost 400sq feet), even if at medium levels, then probably it's out of the question? 🙁
Titan-815lx kit looks like nice alternative, thanks for suggestion! I am not too keen on the design of the upper part, though. Would I mess something up, if I would add side walls and upper wall to the enclosure, but leave the back open for the two-top speakers? (so when looking from the front, it looks like a single neat box)
So far I think I rulled out Cin10 (as they are in need for sub from the start), and still figuring out Titan vs BYT vs Asathor
Subs: I am still not certain about adding subs. Most likely will look for an old school 2.1 amp, and in the beginning will use only a pair of speakers with no sub attached. And then see how it goes, and attach sub on the go after a year or two if needed - so would be great to have that option available in any case.
Sitting vs lively - it's a cinema room setup. It will always be very static viewing/listening, right on that couch 🙂
Sound levels will not go too high - I have neighbour right behind the wall where the couch is 🙂) However, if BYT will not "fill up the room" (that is almost 400sq feet), even if at medium levels, then probably it's out of the question? 🙁
Titan-815lx kit looks like nice alternative, thanks for suggestion! I am not too keen on the design of the upper part, though. Would I mess something up, if I would add side walls and upper wall to the enclosure, but leave the back open for the two-top speakers? (so when looking from the front, it looks like a single neat box)
So far I think I rulled out Cin10 (as they are in need for sub from the start), and still figuring out Titan vs BYT vs Asathor
I would advise against selecting loudspeakers based on aesthetics, mainly for the following reasons:
- Looks have zero correlation to performance and many of the top performing models are in fact, large and ugly monsters.
- You could easily hide all speakers behind the screen, so that the looks don't matter.
- Nobody bothers about the speakers' aesthetics when there is an interesting moving picture to look at.
- With a projector, the lights are usually turned off and you're not going to see the speakers anyway, even if they're not behind the screen.
I wouldn’t rule out the BYT from Alexander Gresler. He knows what he’s doing.