It's Time to End Horse Racing in this Country

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I don't know what the American Cousins are up to in their disgraced Kentucky Derby, which seems to be cruel to horses, but here in the UK we are mightily excited about our own forthcoming flat racing 1.5 Mile Epsom Derby on Saturday 3rd. June 2023:

Epsom Derby Historically.jpg


TBH, I can't see past favourite Military Order ( A Superb Pedigree, as a Son of Frankel) here as a WIN bet:

Auguste Rodin seemed off his Oats in the 2000! :rolleyes:

Epsom Derby 2023.jpg


But a modest EW on Dubai Mile wouldn't be too bad either. 16-1 is hard to ignore.

As with all Financial Investments, you may LOSE as well as WIN. The main point is to be INTERESTED! :D
 
Peculiar comment, indra1, what are you saying?

Bad time of year for the 14,000 active flat and jumps horses here in the UK:

Horse Deaths May 2023 UK.jpg


One of my little favourites put down on 17 May. Creative Force, a top flat sprinter in 5 to 6 furlongs:


Going good to firm. Horse didn't look right at the start. Had raced only 4 days previously.

Creative Force 2.jpg


Ironically, Creative Force's rider, William Buick was bitten by a horse called Chindit 3 days later. Revenge of the Nags? Word gone round the stables?

No mention of the fatality at owner Godolphin's site:
https://www.godolphin.com/news

But my takeaway is the going was good to firm, which means dry weather, and the horse had been raced 4 days previously.

Winner Azure Blue's trainer remarked he'd rather see his horse run on softer ground. I think that is code for something.

I guess this will run and run. A eco-group group called Animal Rebellion has announced it will be causing trouble at Epsom and Royal Ascot here in the UK.

Hope that is a fairly objective and well-informed view of how it is for us Racing fans. :)
 
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What a waste, all the meat thrown away for no reason, horse was perfectly healthy, the only problem was a broken leg. There are millions of less fortunate people not able to afford meat everyday.
You keep introducing this same Red Herring argument.

The killing of a race horse due to a broken leg from being forced to run in races has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of people having or not having meat to eat elsewhere in the world.

There is no relationship between the two subjects. One is about what to do with an injury to an animal and the other is about a societal and economic matter. Trying to conflate these two subjects is without any merit whatsoever.
 
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What a waste, all the meat thrown away for no reason, horse was perfectly healthy, the only problem was a broken leg. There are millions of less fortunate people not able to afford meat everyday.
Right, good that you are aware of how your society and it's rules operate. Seems to make no sense viewed from here. I simply fail to understand how you guys think as a people.
^ I'm trying to understand how you're thinking also.

Remember, the USA wastes 40% of its food (by some estimates). The meat from a racing horse is likely not terribly palatable, but I could leave that aside if we're simply discussing utilization for nutrition vs. waste. If we're discussing the 'honor' of the animal, then I'm afraid that's a bit on the edge of my discussion and an area that I'll politely steer clear from. It's already been discussed that some euthanasia methods make the meat unsuitable for human (or other animal) consumption. Horse meat in the USA (which is the 'this country' in the thread's title) is not legal to sell commercially for human consumption. Therefore, the commercial butchering of horses is not an industry in the USA. However ridiculous it might seem, people just don't generally eat horse in the USA. Dogs, cats, and guinea pigs (among many animals) while they are used for food elsewhere are 'off limits' too.

Horse carcasses can be used for other things separate from animal food, but I'm not sure of the % utilization for racing horses. The transport alone of a single horse for those types of uses would likely be cost prohibitive and there are likely other barriers for sending a dead race horse off to the proverbial 'glue factory'.

More to the point - In order to understand your point of view, I have a few questions. Would the act of racing / breeding practices leading to early deaths be okay with you as long as they used the meat for something after the horse was euthanized? Would you support raising horses as livestock for human food and an industry built around their use for food?

Note - if it would make money over cattle farming in the USA, I'd be willing to bet there would be already be a thriving industry.

If I've missed your point, what is your point? If it's simply that it's hard to make changes ... well, OK.

Lastly, if you're unaware, and if I am understanding correctly, there is a vibrant horse racing culture in Indonesia. Who are you trying to understand as a 'people'? Perhaps ask some people there. I'd expect that the people taking part in that culture in Indonesia likely have a similar mindset as those taking part in the culture elsewhere. One major 'excuse' is "tradition". Do they use euthanized race horses for human food there? Do the horses meet with a more honorable death? Whatever your findings, I'd be intrigued. In the case of Indonesia, child jockeys would be my first order of business, but once again, I don't want to conflate issues.

Just like every Western country is not the same, I am not trying to lump Hong Kong in with Indonesia. However, I can say from direct contact with the racing culture in Hong Kong and the USA, that I think Hong Kong might even be less charitable as a whole toward the horses.

Why do I bring up Hong Kong? Back to the matter at hand ... As an example of why it might be hard to make some changes in the USA and elsewhere. I believe as others have said, it comes down to money. I'm not sure if it still holds true, but the The Jockey Club wielded tremendous influence in Hong Kong. I believe at one point they were the largest landholder separate from the government... The Jockey Club is classified as a charity... The only similar thing, of which I'm aware, is the NFL in the USA being classed as a non-profit organization for federal taxation purposes. Even if it seemed common sense to look after NFL players' health, it was terribly hard to implement. That's a completely separate matter, but it does indicate some level of power within politics of these sporting organizations, which leads to changes being tougher to implement even around the care of humans vs. horses.

I disagree wholeheartedly. The task is not Sisyphean, but it is certainly a challenge. Awareness, at least in the USA, generally is the first step. I'd say that's largely true world-wide also. If your point is that people in groups can be barbaric, heartless, nasty, ugly etc. etc., then I think you'll find that characteristic all over the world and not just within one group of 'people' that you're trying to understand. I'd lean more toward the facts that most people are simply unaware... and may have other priorities.

Cheers
 
Would the act of racing / breeding practices leading to early deaths be okay with you as long as they used the meat for something after the horse was euthanized? Would you support raising horses as livestock for human food and an industry built around their use for food?
None of the people I know have any interest in horse racing, it is not on TV nor in the popular news feed. Moreover prominent leaders here have strong aversion to gambling and betting.
Indonesia is made up of thousand of islands in tropical climate, no prairie, favors water buffaloes, cows and sheep. Probably a business raising horses for human consumption here won't make it out of red bottom line. However I know people of the prairie in Eurasia still raise and consume horse meat and milk since centuries prior to time of Genghis Khan.
... If it's simply that it's hard to make changes ...
You got it. I have no interest in horse racing, and I can say majority of people around me won't care if there is horse racing industry or not. I do not see enough reason for me to care as stated by classicalfan, a soft voice calling in the wilderness, yet he needs lots of support to affect change he desires.
... you'll find that characteristic all over the world and not just within one group of 'people' that you're trying to understand.
Sure, as a matter of fact I can not understand many things my people do either. :)
I disagree wholeheartedly. The task is not Sisyphean, but it is certainly a challenge.
Root of problem is very deep, we like to win and gain too much while giving insufficient compassion towards those we view as others and/or lesser beings such as animals.
 
Right, good that you are aware of how your society and it's rules operate. Seems to make no sense viewed from here. I simply fail to understand how you guys think as a people.
Nor do I understand how you think.

I’ve read all of your posts and still don’t really understand what point you are trying to get across.

You appear to be a vegetarian, which is fine. But what any of that has to do with killing a race horse because he is unfortunate enough to break his leg completely escapes me.
 
You appear to be a vegetarian, which is fine. But what any of that has to do with killing a race horse because he is unfortunate enough to break his leg completely escapes me.
Yeah, it's not like the horse is going to be cut up for meat and sold to the public. Those animals are so full of drugs, no one in there right mind would touch one with a ten foot pole.

jeff
 
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I say, if a horse must be euthanized, then by law and the threat of severe punishment, one random group of spectators must take responsibility for euthanizing the horse and the disposal / use of the carcass. See how quickly their support for the sport dwindles.

Of course, I'm kidding, but if the betters and the spectators <cough> had a horse in the race... i.e. were even aware and had to really play a role in killing a horse, they might choose a different activity. The 'dirty work' is intentionally kept from the people to make it glamorous.

Although, picturing a bunch of ladies in their finest running around Churchill Downs does have me giggling...
 
If we banned horse racing tomorrow, what would happen to the horses?

A bit too high strung or temperamental to be used for recreational riding. Turn them all into pet food?

The practical approach would be to burden racing with high taxes to reduce its’ frequency. Thus fewer horses bred. With rising taxes racing would go away.

The untouched issue is what happens to horses bred for racing that are not fast enough to make the cut to race.
 
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