Looking for a single driver build and and interested in working towards a true full range system. Be that speakers and a sub or just a pair of large speakers. I want to use mark audio as they are the most readily available and from what I can tell offer great price to performance. That said Marks product stack is pretty confusing and I'd like advice as to which divers would suit me best (though thinking about supra baffels so I can play around with different drivers though that'll be later down the track). I listen to most kinds of music from metal to opera but mostly metal and at moderate volume levels (my listening comfort level is around 72db). My priorities are clarity, sound stage and to some extent off axis performance. I'd love people to chime in with which drivers and enclosures people would recommend. I've been told by one person that pluvia 11 in the frugal horn XL is my best bet but I've got a list of chores to do before I can have my play time so I've got time to ask around some more.
All the above are valid suggestions. CHN-110 might take the most abuse, MAOP 10.2 seems to consistently get the “better sound” tag. Note that these 2 drivers are at opposite ends of th eprice spectrum. CHN-110 goes best in Joan (but sounds really good in FHXL), A10s, A11 go into FHXL.
dave
dave
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honakerdave,
I tried quite a few wide-band (AKA full-range) drivers for metal music - IMHO they don't work very well; Many of the metal recordings are on the thin side, and there is a lot going on in a metal mix, and a single driver with modest cone area burdened with the entire frequency range struggles. However, a wide-band driver can give a very enjoyable experience (despite the irregularities in the frequency response curve) in genres like acoustic, small ensemble jazz, vocal based music.
When I switched over to a 2 way, the listening experience with metal was much better. Then I did a speaker for a friend with 4 x 6.5" drivers and converted my 2 way into a 3 way by adding an 8" woofer for lower bass duty (and of course redoing the XO and cabinet); on both of the speakers metal/heavy metal/thrash was much more enjoyable even at moderate volumes.
This has also led me to the conclusion that cone area matters for certain genres vs others. There's a saying "There's no replacement for displacement" - it might have its origin in the auto industry, but applies to audio also. 🙂
I tried quite a few wide-band (AKA full-range) drivers for metal music - IMHO they don't work very well; Many of the metal recordings are on the thin side, and there is a lot going on in a metal mix, and a single driver with modest cone area burdened with the entire frequency range struggles. However, a wide-band driver can give a very enjoyable experience (despite the irregularities in the frequency response curve) in genres like acoustic, small ensemble jazz, vocal based music.
When I switched over to a 2 way, the listening experience with metal was much better. Then I did a speaker for a friend with 4 x 6.5" drivers and converted my 2 way into a 3 way by adding an 8" woofer for lower bass duty (and of course redoing the XO and cabinet); on both of the speakers metal/heavy metal/thrash was much more enjoyable even at moderate volumes.
This has also led me to the conclusion that cone area matters for certain genres vs others. There's a saying "There's no replacement for displacement" - it might have its origin in the auto industry, but applies to audio also. 🙂
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90dB is VERY loud for metal music.
Metal music usually has a limited dynamic range, so 90dB peaks probably means 85-86dB average. At these sort of SPLs you should be enjoying some slam/punch from the music. In my experience, modest sized wide-band drivers do not deliver that slam/punch; you mostly get the mids and the highs. Also due to the resonant nature of a wide-band driver cone, it is possible that the breakup is more audible and it ends up sounding a bit raspy.
In some of his posts I recall GM mentioning that the 50% of the power in music is within 500 Hz, and 50% is over that, and for reproduction of classical music and rock music, the power from 50-500 Hz is required (for classical it might need to go a bit lower).
Metal music usually has a limited dynamic range, so 90dB peaks probably means 85-86dB average. At these sort of SPLs you should be enjoying some slam/punch from the music. In my experience, modest sized wide-band drivers do not deliver that slam/punch; you mostly get the mids and the highs. Also due to the resonant nature of a wide-band driver cone, it is possible that the breakup is more audible and it ends up sounding a bit raspy.
In some of his posts I recall GM mentioning that the 50% of the power in music is within 500 Hz, and 50% is over that, and for reproduction of classical music and rock music, the power from 50-500 Hz is required (for classical it might need to go a bit lower).
A few people have mentioned "Abuse" and I'm afraid I don't understand t he term in this context. To me abuse is either being violent towards an object or maliciously using it in a way that that will harm it, neither of which I intend to do lol. Also "jone"? haven't come across that speaker box.
So I'm hearing a general opinion that single driver isn't ideal for metal or other complex/busy music (which I love). Is the general consensus that I'd be better off buying something like the Css Torii or saving my penneys for the CSS Critons? I already have a few pairs of 300-500 dollar speakers. (almost all recommendations from cheap audio man lol
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honakerdave,
A project for you look at and think 🙂:
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...roven-zingers-an-indiyana-2019-8-2-way-design
Are these drivers available in the UK?
A project for you look at and think 🙂:
https://techtalk.parts-express.com/...roven-zingers-an-indiyana-2019-8-2-way-design
Are these drivers available in the UK?
This is so true! Displacement matters! Especially with percussive music like metal. With all of the machine gun bass drums, crisp snare, and crashing cymbals it’s pretty violent music. Metal drummers are some of the best in the world and it would be a shame not to hear all of the pounding on those tom’s. This is why I almost exclusively listen to metal on my econo-waves with a 12” woofer. I listen to ensemble jazz on my t-lines with a 4” woofer, they bring small ensembles closer, more realistic and cover upright bass fine.
OK, back to the original question, pluvia 11 in the frugal horn XL, I think that would work well. The pluvia11 is an excellent driver and putting it in a horn will get you some good bass. Should be fine at non ear splitting levels. Later, if you lose your mind🤪, you could use the pluvia 11 as a midrange in a three way with a sub and super tweeter.
It's the largest member of the Frugel Horn family. Go to page #2 in the link for the drawing. For some reason the forum won't let me post the pic. https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-12p-cabinet-options.219389/
jeff
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um I dont know defiantly experiencing decision fatigue. I'm now leaning towards buying a full kit along the lines of the CSS Criton 1TD Kit or the gr research X-LS Encore (though the amount of snake oil gr peddles creeps me out). Basically I've got the opportunity to buy stuff in the states once or twice a year due to family coming here or me going there so I'm looking around there as well.
Metal is very dense in the midrange, and with fullrange drivers that is often a problem, so i would also suggest a different type of speaker for it. But i listen to metal also, also on fullrange speakers and mostly on my Mark Audio 10.3 bookshelfs from very close (less than a meter distance). But if I want it loud, i rather use my waw system with the Alpair 10.3 and a 10" scanspeak 26W woofer. It just sounds better, less stressed.
An Econowave like system (big woofer and compression driver in horn) is better at that, just like the Tarkus speaker from Paul Camody and similar. This mainly because they are capable to higher volume and are less stressed because of that very dense midrange of the music with the bigger woofer. A waw system (a fullrange with a bigger woofer) can do the same like I said.
An Econowave like system (big woofer and compression driver in horn) is better at that, just like the Tarkus speaker from Paul Camody and similar. This mainly because they are capable to higher volume and are less stressed because of that very dense midrange of the music with the bigger woofer. A waw system (a fullrange with a bigger woofer) can do the same like I said.
While the crossover may be to much I am rather enamoured with those Tarkus speakers. After doing a quick speck on parts express the parts list came to only 400ish am I missing something? Obviously I'll need a couple of sheets of mdf filler/dampening materials but these seem very reasonable to build. (I used all dayton audio parts for the crossover)
Dayton audio parts are good enough actually. More expensive won't change much. But don't use mdf, use quality plywood. Birch is the most popular, but beech or bamboo is as good, and even other high quality multilayer hardwood plywood (oak, walnut, ...) is better than mdf actually. But it must be high quality void free 18mm with 13 layers or so, not the cheap construction plywood