OK, but what is the cause?Spatial perception. Piano sounds big, reproduced it doesn’t. Also the low frequencies differ.
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Mainly the difference in the actual sound field distribution, therefore the approximation to reality is much better in the case of binaural recordings listened to with headphones.
If the reproduction takes place down the hallway around a corner in another room, other factors (the actual differences in sound quality) are more important, and - assuming a high-quality chain - it gets more difficult to decide if it's life or reproduction.
But, the usually available sound file/carrier is too compromised for various reasons to elicit this perception of realism.
If the reproduction takes place down the hallway around a corner in another room, other factors (the actual differences in sound quality) are more important, and - assuming a high-quality chain - it gets more difficult to decide if it's life or reproduction.
But, the usually available sound file/carrier is too compromised for various reasons to elicit this perception of realism.
Good reaction Mark. Enjoy!Have ordered Vol. 26, as pictured. Expected delivery sometime in mid April. Will evaluate in PCM and DSD256. May I ask what dac you are using?
I listen to CDs from the analog-out of my CD player (Rotel RCD-965BX, SAA7223GP DAC chip)
For USB out from PC, I use a few of Abraxalito DACs.
His latest 9th order LP & I/V creation (Dark LED I/V) is very good.
George
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EdSpatial perception. Piano sounds big, reproduced it doesn’t. Also the low frequencies differ.
I agree that many commercial recordings choke the dynamics of individual instruments. Most probably it’s a miking/ mixing issue.
50ies-60ies jazz recordings were really good on this aspect. Drums, bass, brass all sounded real, not overprocessed.
I have heard multiple times FM transmition of live piano recitals with stanning dymamics and ambience.
HansBut in fact the question was here, is digital after so many years able to be unnoticed or transparent when included in a vinyl reproduction chain.
If not, this doesn't disqualifies digital, but just that we haven't still found the full 100% solution..
Hans
As much as I have spent thousands hours with/for vinyl, my opinion is that vinyl has a charm due to it’s many technical issues which confuse the mind to imagine things. Just like Howie explained (The L-R correlation is complicated by the miniscule and frequency dependent cartridge crosstalk).
I have no issue with CD format and technology. It is very good and it can be bettered. But it’s me and I don’t seek perfection.
And I have not experienced the phenomenon of vinyl noise floor change due to the LP ripping process.
George
Yes, pre-echo can be a problem. Much worse on cassettes than multi track masters though.How are you sure it's from the master tape gpauk?
What i've seen (and did) was often from vinyl to digital because original tapes were either lost or damaged. Even for big selling artist.
About artefacts of analog media: i'm often amazed how people doesn't hear and identify the 'pre-echo' present in any recording that was put to tape at one time or another during production... or 'ghost' parts from multi miked live parts with rerecording done after...
... usually, I think, you can tell if it was from vinyl, there's always some characteristic noise.
For a long time, that was all there was....Has any of you ever auditioned a NOS Dac.
I’ve never had the chance to listen to it, but it is somewhere on my bucket list.
Hans
We have covered it in other threads before (afaik), the first CD player by Philips already was a four times oversampling device - according to the literature due to the fact that Philips at that time only had a 14-bit DAC-IC.
IIRC, Japanese players came with oversampling in 1984.
IIRC, Japanese players came with oversampling in 1984.
The best recording I have for natural sound is an Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Irving Berlin Songbook vinyl. This was recorded in 1959 IIRC and is superb. Great dynamics ( no compression AFAIK) and great space. I listen with my KEF LS50 ‘s and a good sub bass. They really took care in those days with the recordings and it shows because it still sounds fantastic 60 yrs later - like a masterpiece paintin.
I would love to have some Ella Fitzgerald. I love the old Harry Belafonte's including the Carnegie Hall ones, as well as many old recordings.
I think of analog as what digital keeps promising. Good analog pulls one through the countless foibles that is analog. Digital often seems an opaque barrier preventing the depth of heart being realized in a recording, though this phenomenon is being continuously pushed back as time goes on. Many Blue Notes and Mobile Fidelities, including the 45 RPM Muddy Waters "Folk singer", are nice recordings (the vinyl is often superb the way a stylus glides though its superb dynamics), though I still wonder if the originals have qualities that aren't better.
To be sure, digital has markedly advancing in the last decade, though still seems to have a goodly ways to go before being cheaply realized as seemingly what the graphs by ASR and others are now formidably promising as unequivocally perfect digital.
I think of analog as what digital keeps promising. Good analog pulls one through the countless foibles that is analog. Digital often seems an opaque barrier preventing the depth of heart being realized in a recording, though this phenomenon is being continuously pushed back as time goes on. Many Blue Notes and Mobile Fidelities, including the 45 RPM Muddy Waters "Folk singer", are nice recordings (the vinyl is often superb the way a stylus glides though its superb dynamics), though I still wonder if the originals have qualities that aren't better.
To be sure, digital has markedly advancing in the last decade, though still seems to have a goodly ways to go before being cheaply realized as seemingly what the graphs by ASR and others are now formidably promising as unequivocally perfect digital.
It is important to compare apples with apples here. The part of my analog system is a Garrard 401/SMEIV/Zu DL103 in a Peak Audio plinth, feeding into a balanced IO current mode phono stage (Proteus, Linear Audio Sept 2013) all discrete. Cost lots to even built that beast. Three chassis - one for each channel and an outboard power supply.
So you'd really have to compare a digital system in the same price class as that lot. I can't afford that - so I have a Cambridge Audio streamer (around UKP700, so call it $1k) linked to Tidal HiFi, a NAS drive with ripped CD's, a Cambridge Audio Azure CD player and the OLED TV. And it is very good indeed, and very listenable to. But not in the same class as the record listening gear. Just a touch too clinical.
The Cambridge Audio "Edge" series streamer is in a different class entirely, with a price to match. Named after my good friend and business mentor Gordon Edge - the original founder of Cambridge Audio back in the mid '60's. Alas RIP around 10 years ago.
So you'd really have to compare a digital system in the same price class as that lot. I can't afford that - so I have a Cambridge Audio streamer (around UKP700, so call it $1k) linked to Tidal HiFi, a NAS drive with ripped CD's, a Cambridge Audio Azure CD player and the OLED TV. And it is very good indeed, and very listenable to. But not in the same class as the record listening gear. Just a touch too clinical.
The Cambridge Audio "Edge" series streamer is in a different class entirely, with a price to match. Named after my good friend and business mentor Gordon Edge - the original founder of Cambridge Audio back in the mid '60's. Alas RIP around 10 years ago.
I mentioned a paper to be posted shortly on this forum.On an aside from the object of your post above, perhaps you can direct me to the post regarding your Universal Head Amp.
The above suggests testing of a Head Amp that either magnifies voltage or effectively shorts the coil and magnifies the resulting current into the short, as would be the case in feeding the MC output into the inverting terminal of an operational amplifier and using a resistor in the feedback path.
As can be imagined, in the current mode the shorted winding resists the movement of the stylus as can affect the sonics. There is another factor that comes to mind as such relates to bandwidth and dielectric effects in the cabling between the cartridge and the Head Amp. Under perfect feedback conditions the potential between the centre conductor and the shield is driven to zero potential difference, meaning the effective capacitance diminishes along with the attraction of electrons into the dielectrics. This is to suggest that current mode can increase the effective bandwidth and diminish dielectric absorptive characteristics that might otherwise be prevalent under voltage mode conditions. Hence the internal cabling cannot be necessarily ignored as irrelevant to improved or diminished sonics.
When you are still interested, here it is.
Hans
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...idual-transfer-functions.397815/#post-7314673
I have some fantastic modern CD recordings. However, they have mostly all been doctored a bit with either compression, or with multiple takes. Bill Frisell recordings are generally very good, as are Fourplay and the more recent Joey Defrancesco (RIP). But, they lack the naturalness and warmth of older recordings, most of which were recorded live with the full orchestra/band, so none of this multi-take stuff. The worst example of the latter is a Christian McBride vinyl that I was compelled to write about here https://hifisonix.com/technical/the-tale-of-two-recordings/It is important to compare apples with apples here. The part of my analog system is a Garrard 401/SMEIV/Zu DL103 in a Peak Audio plinth, feeding into a balanced IO current mode phono stage (Proteus, Linear Audio Sept 2013) all discrete. Cost lots to even built that beast. Three chassis - one for each channel and an outboard power supply.
So you'd really have to compare a digital system in the same price class as that lot. I can't afford that - so I have a Cambridge Audio streamer (around UKP700, so call it $1k) linked to Tidal HiFi, a NAS drive with ripped CD's, a Cambridge Audio Azure CD player and the OLED TV. And it is very good indeed, and very listenable to. But not in the same class as the record listening gear. Just a touch too clinical.
The Cambridge Audio "Edge" series streamer is in a different class entirely, with a price to match. Named after my good friend and business mentor Gordon Edge - the original founder of Cambridge Audio back in the mid '60's. Alas RIP around 10 years ago.
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