See https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...a123-with-old-mtm-towers.394294/#post-7229947 and https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/using-hypex-fusion-amps-fa123-with-old-mtm-towers.394294/post-7230467... forward.
The advice expressed by profiguy above is likely prudent (if critical listening is the objective). I believe it's based on personal experience. It also seems to match mine.
Chris
Clearly a controversial opinion based on personal listening experience--but I would certainly rethink your entire approach to loudspeakers and listening room/acoustics if the price of the amplifiers that sound good for critical listening are more than ~30% the cost of the loudspeakers (even DIY) and room treatments put together, assuming an acoustically acceptable/large enough room to begin with.
Just a rough rule-of-thumb to keep the goal (i.e., attainment of outstanding sound quality) in perspective.
Chris
Yes I did spend as much money and time on room treatment, and it was worth every cent.
Actually I think that without treatment at some point it is worthless investing.
But heddphone and ifi signature was a good investment to compare hifi/headphone too...
It is a kind of benchmark
Actually I think that without treatment at some point it is worthless investing.
But heddphone and ifi signature was a good investment to compare hifi/headphone too...
It is a kind of benchmark
With some patience you can find really good amps used, for a decent amount of money.
If you know how to solder and spec/change electrolytic caps, you can fix 75% of all issues they experience over time already.
If you know how to solder and spec/change electrolytic caps, you can fix 75% of all issues they experience over time already.
Interesting, I started with crown d75a 20 years ago. Then I moved to lab gruppen ip series, great amps !
Profiguy refered to Icepower amps.
Anyway, it's possible that Hypex (and similar modern class D) amps are really just showing what the speakers connected to them are really like, including compression drivers, which are basically distortion generators with magnifying lens.
But of course it may not be so.
Last edited:
It is a shame whenever you listen more to the equipment than the music.
I enjoy music with my Sony bt headphone quite often.
I enjoy music with my Sony bt headphone quite often.
LOL, why would you even say that in a thread like this on a forum such as this? It seems a poorly placed comment.
Why not go onto a motorcycle racing forum and tell them they worry too much about motors and tires, that you enjoy going around in circles too, but all you need is your Solex and the local roundabout. Or go onto a high end home theater forum and claim that their fascination with projectors and screens and servers is a shame, because you enjoy watching movies on your Apple Watch.
Sort of misses the point, doesn't it? 😉
Why not go onto a motorcycle racing forum and tell them they worry too much about motors and tires, that you enjoy going around in circles too, but all you need is your Solex and the local roundabout. Or go onto a high end home theater forum and claim that their fascination with projectors and screens and servers is a shame, because you enjoy watching movies on your Apple Watch.
Sort of misses the point, doesn't it? 😉
From my perspective, bad tires and motors are important in racing and measurable! Amplifiers subjectively rated are useless compared to the room AND problems that is between the ears😈
Yes, that's a decent smaller amp. It has the same front end and fet drive stage as the A21.
i dont get 2-way designs. they say the want to avoid crossovers etc, but run into problems with beaming and distortion in the high-end instead.
for example Axi2050 is a 2" exit driver with an almost 7" titanium cone. good design is one thing, but there is no way it will perform better than a dirt cheap selenium driver with a 2" diaphragm. size is a quality in the high-end!
for example Axi2050 is a 2" exit driver with an almost 7" titanium cone. good design is one thing, but there is no way it will perform better than a dirt cheap selenium driver with a 2" diaphragm. size is a quality in the high-end!
Actually, the whole idea of sound reproduction at DIY prices probably should be filled with comments about the goal (achieved sound quality) first, foremost, and often--and what that means to our habit of listening to music (or I suppose viewing cinema at home).
I personally think the apparently prevailing emphasis on brands and branding--and especially nostalgia--doesn't really have a place on a forum like this which is apparently dedicated to getting good or superior sound quality for a fraction of the cost of buying it at the truly indefensible prices that boutique audio shops want to sell it to you turnkey. (This viewpoint from a system engineer/architect perspective.) I'd rather see a lot more loudspeaker kit group buys and/or JIT enterprises that hold profit margins down to 5%-20% over materials costs. Now that would be a big step forward in sound reproduction, I believe.
If you like to simply tinker all the time--then perhaps a forum section called "tinkerers only" should be created (and the tinkerers go there to stay)...😉 I'm a bit more goal oriented than that sort of thing myself.
Chris
Last edited:
I really try to not get into ******* matches regarding amps. I just dispense advice based on my hard earned travels in hifi and professional audio.
There are people who focus on specific preference of gear based on various reasons. My reasons are the internal design (reliability, consistency, quality) and how it integrates or peforms with the rest of the system. I prefer neutral, accurate and realistic sound that copies the live performance. Nothing more or less. I'm not into fake euphoric sound stages or other un-natural effects.
I can actually hear very well how an amp gets along with specific speakers from an objective point of view. Its VERY audible to me, even with poor room acoustics and lower quality recordings.
This being the land of shameless self promotion, people may wonder what qualifies me to make these judgement calls? Work on the entire signal chain of higher end analog and digital studio gear and hifi is what I've done for a living for the past 40 yrs. Everything from large format recording consoles to first gen PCM and analog multi track tape machines. I've listened to hundreds of speakers, amps and source gear. I don't listen to anything less than 44.1k/16 bit digital recordings, good vinyl or open reel analog tape. I know what real un-amplified acoustic music sounds like (including concert grand pianos, and full live symphony orchestras).
Most people haven't even experienced live acoustic music without a PA system to ruin it, so they don't have a reference to judge by. Sorry, but alot of people who claim to be audiophiles haven't even heard a truly good live music event that didn't use some form of amplification.
That being said, what I do know is no class D amp I've come across has ever come close to sounding like a higher end class AB or pure class A amp. Does that mean such an amp doesn't exist? I'm sure some day technology will perhaps catch up and we'll see it happen. I do exclude tube amps of varying topology from this comparison because those need lots of care and feeding, which can get expensive over the long run, plus we've seen with the situation in the Ukraine that vacuum tube availability can be troublesome.
I honestly don't care if people don't listen to my advice. I have nothing to gain. I just want to help people make wise decisions with audio. Thats one of the reasons I'm on this forum.
There are people who focus on specific preference of gear based on various reasons. My reasons are the internal design (reliability, consistency, quality) and how it integrates or peforms with the rest of the system. I prefer neutral, accurate and realistic sound that copies the live performance. Nothing more or less. I'm not into fake euphoric sound stages or other un-natural effects.
I can actually hear very well how an amp gets along with specific speakers from an objective point of view. Its VERY audible to me, even with poor room acoustics and lower quality recordings.
This being the land of shameless self promotion, people may wonder what qualifies me to make these judgement calls? Work on the entire signal chain of higher end analog and digital studio gear and hifi is what I've done for a living for the past 40 yrs. Everything from large format recording consoles to first gen PCM and analog multi track tape machines. I've listened to hundreds of speakers, amps and source gear. I don't listen to anything less than 44.1k/16 bit digital recordings, good vinyl or open reel analog tape. I know what real un-amplified acoustic music sounds like (including concert grand pianos, and full live symphony orchestras).
Most people haven't even experienced live acoustic music without a PA system to ruin it, so they don't have a reference to judge by. Sorry, but alot of people who claim to be audiophiles haven't even heard a truly good live music event that didn't use some form of amplification.
That being said, what I do know is no class D amp I've come across has ever come close to sounding like a higher end class AB or pure class A amp. Does that mean such an amp doesn't exist? I'm sure some day technology will perhaps catch up and we'll see it happen. I do exclude tube amps of varying topology from this comparison because those need lots of care and feeding, which can get expensive over the long run, plus we've seen with the situation in the Ukraine that vacuum tube availability can be troublesome.
I honestly don't care if people don't listen to my advice. I have nothing to gain. I just want to help people make wise decisions with audio. Thats one of the reasons I'm on this forum.
"I can actually hear very well how an amp gets along with specific speakers from an objective point of view. Its VERY audible to me, even with poor room acoustics and lower quality recordings."
Hmm, that still looks like a subjective point of view.
Hmm, that still looks like a subjective point of view.
And yet goals are so rarely mentioned. We see it here on the speaker forums often. Someone starts a thread about a project with no clear goals in mind. When asked "what are your goals" too often the OP will get flustered, or defensive, or just ignore the question. Oddly, many people do have a budget in mind. 😛 But real goals are surprisingly rare.
I have nothing against nostalgia. There has been plenty of good gear built over the past century - along with a heap of mediocre and crap gear. If we want to pick and choose gear manufactured over a few decades, why not? For example, @kevinkr struggled for a long time trying to get brand new Radian drivers to work (and measure) properly on his Yuichi horns. No amount of non-nostalgic DSP or other measures could get them right. Using an old pair of JBL drivers, then eventually TAD-4001 made it all work like a charm. So what's the best compression driver for Kevin in 2023? For sure it's the old TAD-4001. We use what works.
4001 or 4002. if you can find them: 4003
i also recommend the Faital HF146. Very nice driver (1,4“)
i also recommend the Faital HF146. Very nice driver (1,4“)
The comment was especially for you, Pano. 😊
Clearly, you have an interest in the current nostalgia fad...
Not from where I'm from (except for perhaps...rank novices). In fact, in my experience, the people that stick around and contribute strongly are usually very goal oriented. That's why they contribute so strongly--IME.
Chris