For info anybody has compare a Beyma 755ND with a 18sounds ND3 ? , the 18sounds are nearly half the price.. and have aluminum and Ti diagram too..
Hello there,
What kind of amp are you using on CDs in 2023?
Any thoughts on which pa amp would be good to replace old lab gruppen? Knobs are old and has some floor noise.. except from that it is good...
What kind of amp are you using on CDs in 2023?
Any thoughts on which pa amp would be good to replace old lab gruppen? Knobs are old and has some floor noise.. except from that it is good...
a low power and low gain 300B for me , a mess to keep it quiet with 110DB compression driver
I use Neurochrome Modulus with high eff drivers. Very quit und no hum. Perfect!
https://neurochrome.com/collections/power-amplifiers
https://neurochrome.com/collections/power-amplifiers
Since a couple of days I run my 18sounds NSD1095N from a ACA Mini 2x5W class A. Seems good.
//
//
A small low gain class A of sorts is the best sounding amplification for a compression driver in a home setting. Can't imagine needing more than 10W of power for something that already does over 100dB/W, unless you have a huge room or want to go deaf.
My parasound stuff is dead quiet. Any of the A series amps have very good SN ratios. You can put your ear up to the drivers and barely hear anything. I struggle more with phono preamp noise than anything else.
You'll be hard pressed to find anything off the shelf that performs as well and is as consistent for the price. The A21 is a nice amp and with a few small tweaks it does very well. Avoid the first gen A21s that have the 80V rated PS capacitors.
Class D isn't good enough for critical listening (except subwoofer applications) based on my listening experience. Even the best class D designs can't compete with a good fet based class A or AB amp. A good SET triode class A design is also nice if the noise is low enough and the transformer is up to par, especially on a CD.
Class D isn't good enough for critical listening (except subwoofer applications) based on my listening experience. Even the best class D designs can't compete with a good fet based class A or AB amp. A good SET triode class A design is also nice if the noise is low enough and the transformer is up to par, especially on a CD.
That’s a pretty sweeping statement don’t you think?
Have you really evaluated all class D amps on the market on different type speakers?
On my speakers I personally find Pascal amps to be superior to a lot of highly rated ,so called, audiophile amps I have owned or auditioned over a period of 40+ years. I have listened to and liked Nelson Pass class A amps driving huge japanese cd:s, I have found some highly regarded class D amps highly disappointing (as in clean but dead sounding w.o. ‘drive’ ) and I have heard class B amps with great ‘drive’, like but extremely noisy, like Naim. I also find the Linn class D modules to be great sounding on high efficiency speakers.
Some speakers like the old B&W 800:s simply need high current capability monsters to come alive, others are happy with amps that swing voltage.
It’s just not that simple.
Two people can have the same amps and equipment, one has noise issues another not. So it is not that simple.
It also has to do with your local power grid, allowed current THD amounts on the supply, 10% is fairly common, meaning your amp is being fed distorted 50/60hz sinewaves to begin with.. If you have a lot of bad rectifiers in your house, especially on the same fuses as your system it does not make things better.
Computers tend to be used as sources these days and they are not good when it comes to noise.
SNR ratio is not the only thing that matters, far from it.
And Class D amps are noise machines by design, after all what you use to produce the signal is high frequency switching, so the better designs are very bandwidth limited in the range past 20k, to try and relieve some of the issues.
Switch mode power supplies are also notoriously bad noise generators, diode rectifiers are the main reason for THD in the power grid to begin with. And if you have electrical potential separation that is another headache ontop.
After all the 600€ Hypex is produced in China, for less +/- 50€. Or they would not afford to be in business and have profit.
Class D amps as mentioned above is basically a electrical noise generator by design, then you use engineering to try and design away the issues that comes from choice of class D to begin with.
There are good and bad designs of any topology, but the more traditional topologies, and using transformers for power supply is a much easier and less noisy starting point for a good design.
But yes it is more expensive, less electrically efficient, larger, generates more heat and has much less output potential pr kg of weight.
Ergo class D amps makes completely sense for PA application due to those reasons.
For those that really struggle with noise in compression drivers. Try a quality amp powered from DC batteries with good filtering and you might discover something. Not a off the shelf product or easy to find, but does exist/can be made with kits.
It also has to do with your local power grid, allowed current THD amounts on the supply, 10% is fairly common, meaning your amp is being fed distorted 50/60hz sinewaves to begin with.. If you have a lot of bad rectifiers in your house, especially on the same fuses as your system it does not make things better.
Computers tend to be used as sources these days and they are not good when it comes to noise.
SNR ratio is not the only thing that matters, far from it.
And Class D amps are noise machines by design, after all what you use to produce the signal is high frequency switching, so the better designs are very bandwidth limited in the range past 20k, to try and relieve some of the issues.
Switch mode power supplies are also notoriously bad noise generators, diode rectifiers are the main reason for THD in the power grid to begin with. And if you have electrical potential separation that is another headache ontop.
After all the 600€ Hypex is produced in China, for less +/- 50€. Or they would not afford to be in business and have profit.
Class D amps as mentioned above is basically a electrical noise generator by design, then you use engineering to try and design away the issues that comes from choice of class D to begin with.
There are good and bad designs of any topology, but the more traditional topologies, and using transformers for power supply is a much easier and less noisy starting point for a good design.
But yes it is more expensive, less electrically efficient, larger, generates more heat and has much less output potential pr kg of weight.
Ergo class D amps makes completely sense for PA application due to those reasons.
For those that really struggle with noise in compression drivers. Try a quality amp powered from DC batteries with good filtering and you might discover something. Not a off the shelf product or easy to find, but does exist/can be made with kits.
Last edited:
I had some cheap tpa3116 based D amps, generic ADAU17 dsp in front, very noisy even with resistor pad. Now have icepower tpa3255 based amp, different DSP and basically no audible noise that I'd hear at listening spot over the ambient. There is some noise mostly from a DJ mixer I have in front. The DSP probably has some as well. Point is, implementation matters a lot, not all class D amps are in the same bucket. Perhaps some amps are even quieter. Its important to have quiet enough amp, perhaps the most important criteria for an amplifier.
I would like to truc nuprime as they have apparently mix of class a and class d, but they are known to be noisy .
I think it will be easier for me to use XLR, as my rme is designed that way.
I missed a cheap parasound A27 here. could work too.
UCDs have the reputation of being quite.
Of course everything said about supply from the mains is true.
My lab gruppen amps are great. Just starting to age (knobs) and some noise in the CD...
I think it will be easier for me to use XLR, as my rme is designed that way.
I missed a cheap parasound A27 here. could work too.
UCDs have the reputation of being quite.
Of course everything said about supply from the mains is true.
My lab gruppen amps are great. Just starting to age (knobs) and some noise in the CD...
Sorry if people are displeased with my opinion on class D. I've heard a few "decent" ones but they mostly lack finesse up top and were somewhat noisy / grainy. Obviously this is extremely subjective, but going by what my ears tell me, there commonly are noise issues by design with most Class D designs. Trying to keep the HF response in tact and clean without significant phase shifts is really hard. I've owned a few IcePower based amps before and feel they're forte is best suited for low end applications. The TPA3255 isn't too bad, especially considering the price. The power supply makes most of the difference on those determining the SQ.
High bias AB with linear PS is my preference. I haven't heard anything significantly better than my Parasound JC2 +JC5 combo. A huge reason why I like it so much is that it sounds very neutral and similar driving virtually any speaker. Thats a big feat to pull off. John Curl is a great amp designer and he really knows his stuff. Are there better amps out there? Absolutely, but they usually are more expensive, and only sound best with specific speakers and loads. The only drawback with Parasound amps is they need a healthy mains supply to sound their best. The only better amps I've heard that can deal with all sorts of loads and have enough power are the larger Pass labs amps. There are some 300B SET amps that sound really amazing with CDs and FLHs, but they usually require alot of maintenance and care to keep them sounding their best.
High bias AB with linear PS is my preference. I haven't heard anything significantly better than my Parasound JC2 +JC5 combo. A huge reason why I like it so much is that it sounds very neutral and similar driving virtually any speaker. Thats a big feat to pull off. John Curl is a great amp designer and he really knows his stuff. Are there better amps out there? Absolutely, but they usually are more expensive, and only sound best with specific speakers and loads. The only drawback with Parasound amps is they need a healthy mains supply to sound their best. The only better amps I've heard that can deal with all sorts of loads and have enough power are the larger Pass labs amps. There are some 300B SET amps that sound really amazing with CDs and FLHs, but they usually require alot of maintenance and care to keep them sounding their best.
I've heard a few Icepower modules coupled with tranformers that sounded pretty good.
Oh for sure, I have not much experience on the amplifiers. Icepower is just significantly less noisy than the cheap 3116 implementation I had to the point where the noise is not disturbing at all so thought to mention, the DJ mixer noise dominates. I've got 110db specsheet sensitivity on the compression drivers with roughly 6db resistor pad. Ambient noise can be high as its an apartment and there is always some noise so perhaps it would be still too noisy for some really quiet environment or shorter listening distance.
Sound quality has been bettered much more by improving speakers so I don't care about amplifiers currently 😉 Cannot notice any problems with the amplifier sound now that the noise is low, but many with the speakers + room vs. psychoacoustics. For amplifiers my top priority list is low noise, reliability and if possible as low power consumption as possible. Small size because I need many channels. And "cheap" price of course. Never buy cheap though as they come with noise, target for good value instead. I feel 1000€ or more per channel is silly, especially when hearing how much speakers and positioning affect the sound. These low enough noise modules came to costing roughly 100€ per channel if work enclosing them into a case doesn't count. Sure, if I had very good income then why not I could buy what I feel is 0.1% performance boost with 1000% price boost, some icing on the cake after top speakers and acoustics is implemented.
I preserve rights to change my mind if I ever get to borrow set of amplifiers and I find them to beat these. Until then, I'm happy concentrating on the more important stuff, like speakers and acoustics and studying psychoacoustics 🙂 Hopefully enough context for anyone to consider my posts for good or neutral or bad advice for their situation.
Sound quality has been bettered much more by improving speakers so I don't care about amplifiers currently 😉 Cannot notice any problems with the amplifier sound now that the noise is low, but many with the speakers + room vs. psychoacoustics. For amplifiers my top priority list is low noise, reliability and if possible as low power consumption as possible. Small size because I need many channels. And "cheap" price of course. Never buy cheap though as they come with noise, target for good value instead. I feel 1000€ or more per channel is silly, especially when hearing how much speakers and positioning affect the sound. These low enough noise modules came to costing roughly 100€ per channel if work enclosing them into a case doesn't count. Sure, if I had very good income then why not I could buy what I feel is 0.1% performance boost with 1000% price boost, some icing on the cake after top speakers and acoustics is implemented.
I preserve rights to change my mind if I ever get to borrow set of amplifiers and I find them to beat these. Until then, I'm happy concentrating on the more important stuff, like speakers and acoustics and studying psychoacoustics 🙂 Hopefully enough context for anyone to consider my posts for good or neutral or bad advice for their situation.
Last edited: