(Didnt know where to put this - ended up in fullrange as those are the drivers used)
Link to an interesting youtube video by Dave Rat on stereo/hifi reproduction and why he thinks it still falls short: Speakers Don't Sound Real, Lets Build One That Does
The demo uses a, multi-mic'd, guitar played back through four fullrange speakers; all pointing in different directions.
(His, practical, methods might make some of you shudder, but, you cant deny, he has an infectious curiosity for all things sound related)
I think he has a good point about how things are/can be recorded vs how we, try to, listen and recreate the original enviroment... What do you think?
Link to an interesting youtube video by Dave Rat on stereo/hifi reproduction and why he thinks it still falls short: Speakers Don't Sound Real, Lets Build One That Does
The demo uses a, multi-mic'd, guitar played back through four fullrange speakers; all pointing in different directions.
(His, practical, methods might make some of you shudder, but, you cant deny, he has an infectious curiosity for all things sound related)
I think he has a good point about how things are/can be recorded vs how we, try to, listen and recreate the original enviroment... What do you think?
Interesting. Pipe is too constrictive, lots of midrange early reflections thru the cone.
A pile of UltraTouch. Soes he actually say what driver he ends up using?
dave
I still sometimes (sometimes) use versions of the old Hafler circuit for certain material -usually ambient, live classical, SQ or QS (RM) encoded material. Make of that what you will, but since Brian Eno was a fan and went so far as to recommend his favoured tri-speaker implementation on the cover of Ambient 4, apparently I've got good company.
Not to be tried if your amplifier doesn't have a common ground, or can't handle the impedance load. 😉 Can be surprisingly effective though, and more involved variations are possible. Quadraphonics wasn't all bad -sorry mess as it ended up, if you pick & choose, there is some good to be taken from it. For any innocents, the Eno variation is the simplest of all implementations. Simply take a small speaker, plonk it somewhere behind you, and wire its two terminals to the L & R positive (not really, but we'll call it that) terminals on your amplifier. It reproduces the stereo difference signal, i.e. everything that's not common to both regular stereo channels. Better with a couple of rear speakers, especially in larger rooms, but one does work. When I run a Hafler setup or a full quad variation, I usually power the rears via their own amplifier so I can adjust the volume independently, but if you pick them sensibly, it's not often necessary.
Not to be tried if your amplifier doesn't have a common ground, or can't handle the impedance load. 😉 Can be surprisingly effective though, and more involved variations are possible. Quadraphonics wasn't all bad -sorry mess as it ended up, if you pick & choose, there is some good to be taken from it. For any innocents, the Eno variation is the simplest of all implementations. Simply take a small speaker, plonk it somewhere behind you, and wire its two terminals to the L & R positive (not really, but we'll call it that) terminals on your amplifier. It reproduces the stereo difference signal, i.e. everything that's not common to both regular stereo channels. Better with a couple of rear speakers, especially in larger rooms, but one does work. When I run a Hafler setup or a full quad variation, I usually power the rears via their own amplifier so I can adjust the volume independently, but if you pick them sensibly, it's not often necessary.
I have never had hi fi ears so most systems sound good to me, even the cheaper ones.
Even so I can tell if there is distortion.
Even so I can tell if there is distortion.
@planet10 - 2x B&C coax (with a cap on highs) 2x Vifa full range.
I think recreating the sound radiation of the instrument, as recorded, is an interesting concept, especially if we had access to the actual audio stems.
Not really practical for an orchestra but maybe small band, acoustic sets or solo instruments.
I think recreating the sound radiation of the instrument, as recorded, is an interesting concept, especially if we had access to the actual audio stems.
Not really practical for an orchestra but maybe small band, acoustic sets or solo instruments.
I don't think it makes sense to try to recreate the instrument. The recording made by the microphone setup contains the best information there is available, we can only try to recreate the microphone recording in the normal way.
I watched a small portion of the video. His goal is admirable, but his approach leaves a lot to be desired.
The goal should be to recreate the space. It does not matter what instruments are in the space.
To do that, a speaker should be omnidirectional at all frequencies. Most speakers aren't even close.
Ed
The goal should be to recreate the space. It does not matter what instruments are in the space.
To do that, a speaker should be omnidirectional at all frequencies. Most speakers aren't even close.
Ed
Isn't this just trying to do a Bose?
Note: I am a fan of the work done on ambisonics, just a shame it never took off.
Note: I am a fan of the work done on ambisonics, just a shame it never took off.
Ambisonic beamforming
https://iko.sonible.com/
It's pretty hard to put something like this in a standard for consumers. But technical we have everything what's needed.
https://iko.sonible.com/
It's pretty hard to put something like this in a standard for consumers. But technical we have everything what's needed.
Allen,
The information captured by the microphone is the sound being emitted by the instrument in exactly one direction. Perhaps two, if you're recording in stereo. Have a look here: http://soundmedia.jp/nuaudk/
Click an instrument and pick a mic pair to hear it from. Real musical instruments have very interesting polar patterns, and Dave's attempting to reproduce that.
Ed,
"Recreating the space" is an admirable goal, but why would you want your own listening room superimposed over whatever's been captured at the venue?
In my opinion, the pursuit of "High Fidelity" is ultimately doomed to failure. While Dave's approach is interesting, the practicalities mean it's extremely unlikely to proliferate past the occasional YouTube demo.
Chris
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I really like his approach to sound, watched tons of his video's.
He is a very well respected guy amongst (live) audio engineers, and like the fact he is sharing his immense knowledge.
When the rational words are exhausted, the ravings begin.
I DO recreate the sound of the instrument, then captured by the microphone and stored in some physical medium. And really, it sounds too much like the live sounds of the instruments, so although there are superior systems, with my limited budget but plenty of experience, I found my nirvana.
PS: I don't even want to think about what the low range will sound like in that experiment, if it's even noticeable.
I DO recreate the sound of the instrument, then captured by the microphone and stored in some physical medium. And really, it sounds too much like the live sounds of the instruments, so although there are superior systems, with my limited budget but plenty of experience, I found my nirvana.
PS: I don't even want to think about what the low range will sound like in that experiment, if it's even noticeable.
Since reflections from one's room can't be eliminated, the next best thing is to make reflected sounds match the direct sound. I own speakers that do that. The result is closer to real than not trying to get reflected sounds right.
Ed
FWIW I do well with "some" of my Karlson tech stuff - the K-tube tho not "CD" works well when a horn's bottom power is not needed. I ran a midrange coupler with B&C 8PL21 with K-tube on top - quite stunning on acoustic guitar but there's a notch in the response and its there just s stong without the aperture wings in place - so in quest for something with a flat curve without resorting to damping material up front I need to try again even tho the sound is much better than say a JBL 306P.which makes a relatively flat line graph (and for cheap - an excellent speaker - will an LCLC allpass filter put a 306p's tweeter in line with the woofer at the crossover point ?)
" the sound is much better than say a JBL 306P "
https://www.stylestore.com.ar/parla...zBxMc8ctw_r_dWR8VrxsWdiCEgIcMS7RoCu50QAvD_BwE
39Hz-24kHz (-10dB) | Respuesta en frecuencia: 47Hz-20kHz (aprox 3dB)
Obviously the laws of physics can't be changed, small speakers with high power cannot achieve the SPL that large speakers with much less power can achieve......I think you'll get over it easily, Freddy
https://www.stylestore.com.ar/parla...zBxMc8ctw_r_dWR8VrxsWdiCEgIcMS7RoCu50QAvD_BwE
39Hz-24kHz (-10dB) | Respuesta en frecuencia: 47Hz-20kHz (aprox 3dB)
Obviously the laws of physics can't be changed, small speakers with high power cannot achieve the SPL that large speakers with much less power can achieve......I think you'll get over it easily, Freddy
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Not necessarily. It could be the sound of an entire venue captured from two (microphone) points the same as we hear from two ears.
He doing a great job, his system sounds the way he wants it to. Close to flat response with high ambience. I rebuilt my sx 780 and HPM 900 speakers to achieve the same result. I would have to spend 200k plus to get a similar sound.
Wow ! 200 K of U$S ? It´s very mutch money ....
Could you tell us what the reconstruction consisted of?
Just to understand what it says in this video, the basics, please