In most cases a few tests is enough to figure out the differences. The q can be made level dependent and those ones are a real nightmare to match. It also depends on how close you need the match to be.
Fluid,
Those are based upon 'constant gain' design. Yes they can be harder to match with a constant q and there will be tiny difference. In analog they sound really different to me. Constant gain seems fater. In digital it's less obvious with the one i know giving the option to choose between both.
But i think this is really at very detailed level. Nothing i would loose sleep over as long as the 'coarse picture' is in place.
And really a dedicated hardware issue.
And this is not what i would invest in if i had to do atm: a good multichanel converter, a computer, and a soft like Audiolense or Acourate.
With a pair of amplifier it could act as a backup for a loudspeaker like this if electronic fails. No more wireless though.
Those are based upon 'constant gain' design. Yes they can be harder to match with a constant q and there will be tiny difference. In analog they sound really different to me. Constant gain seems fater. In digital it's less obvious with the one i know giving the option to choose between both.
But i think this is really at very detailed level. Nothing i would loose sleep over as long as the 'coarse picture' is in place.
And really a dedicated hardware issue.
And this is not what i would invest in if i had to do atm: a good multichanel converter, a computer, and a soft like Audiolense or Acourate.
With a pair of amplifier it could act as a backup for a loudspeaker like this if electronic fails. No more wireless though.
It depend on your budget.
But for a start something like a Focusrite is already pretty good performance/price. And is stable and easy to integrate (usb, asio).
If you want better next step is Rme then it is things like Antelope Audio, Merging or Prism Sound. Not same price range though.
Other option include looking for 10 years old pro converters, like Lavry Blue, Mytek, Apogee,... they are limited in sample rate ( often max 192khz) compared to recent, but they already sound pretty decent ( not to say the same as recents one). You might need an aes soundcard with them. Something like an Rme or Lynx.
I've got a 'secondary system' based on windows xp and different Aardvark cards (20/20 and Q10) which run perfectly fine and sound pretty good at 44/48. Aardvark is the place where Antelope engineers met...
But for a start something like a Focusrite is already pretty good performance/price. And is stable and easy to integrate (usb, asio).
If you want better next step is Rme then it is things like Antelope Audio, Merging or Prism Sound. Not same price range though.
Other option include looking for 10 years old pro converters, like Lavry Blue, Mytek, Apogee,... they are limited in sample rate ( often max 192khz) compared to recent, but they already sound pretty decent ( not to say the same as recents one). You might need an aes soundcard with them. Something like an Rme or Lynx.
I've got a 'secondary system' based on windows xp and different Aardvark cards (20/20 and Q10) which run perfectly fine and sound pretty good at 44/48. Aardvark is the place where Antelope engineers met...
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It depends on the application and fortunately most are close enough to generic to get by with a simple compensation. That is not always the case, transferring MiniDSP to Najda was tricky and so was matching wesayso's mid side EQ with another plugin. If more processors had a reasonable number of FIR taps then this problem would be gone.
MOTU Ultralite Mk5
Okto Research Dac 8 Pro
MOTU can be used without PC but limited to 4 or 5 parametric EQs and LP/HP on each output, IIRC.
both out of stock; get what you can get your hands on …
I have both on order but it seems the Okto may be arriving first. May or may not cancel the MOTU.
i don’t suggest decade old converters because these chips and implementation is like computers- moves quickly. Probably approaching or exceeding Prism Orpheus (laboratory) level quality from 15 years ago…
In fact ESS of Sabre fame is the same ESS that cloned the Sound Blaster Pro from the 20th century.
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I wonder if they have the parts for replacement starting from the 3rd year, or a new model.
In some places, KEF provides only one year of warranty. My X300A Wireless couldn’t last 2 yrs. There are no replacement parts. I turned them into passive, thanks to this forum. However, the same model is still available online, brand new.
Thanks! It has the PCB responsible for power which I needed.
Now the speakers are passive, they don’t need it anymore.
In this country down under called Australia we have the Australian Consumer Law. In regards to repairs and spare parts: in short, consumers have "rights when something you buy breaks or fails to perform as expected" and "you may be entitled to a refund or exchange", and in fact these "rights under the consumer guarantees do not have a specific expiry date and can apply even after any warranties you’ve got from a business have expired"
(bold/italicised by me)
So for KEF to participate into the Australian consumer marketplace they have to provide repairs or spare parts for a reasonable time.
What constitutes are reasonable time depends on the product.
"How much time is ‘reasonable’?
This will depend on the type of goods.
For instance: "• it would be reasonable to expect that tyres for a new car will be available for many years after its purchase
• it may not be reasonable to expect that spare parts for an inexpensive children’s toy are available at all."
Reference:
https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/2016/05/0553FT_ACL-guides_Guarantees_web.pdf
Page 17- Repairs and spare parts:
"Manufacturers or importers guarantee they will take reasonable steps to provide spare parts and repair facilities (a place that can fix the consumer’s goods), for a reasonable time after purchase. This applies even if the consumer did not purchase the goods directly from the manufacturer or importer.
EXAMPLE
A consumer drops his digital camera, which he bought new a year ago for $2,000. He contacts the importer, as the manufacturer does not have an office in Australia, and asks where he can get it repaired. The importer advises they no longer supply parts for that model of camera. A reasonable consumer would expect a one-year-old camera valued at $2,000 to be repairable. The ‘manufacturer’ has not taken reasonable steps to provide spare parts or facilities, so the importer must provide a remedy. Given that a repair is not possible, the appropriate remedy would be to replace the goods or provide a refund."
So in short, it doesn't matter how long KEF thinks it should last for, or KEF's explicit warranty period.
A consumer can request that they repair or replace or refund it if it fails.
And if they (manufacturer or importer) refuse, then consumers can politely remind them about the Australian Consumer Law.
And if they still don't abide then you can take it to the Australia Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and they will act on your behalf.
Unfortunately many consumers do not know about this, or are unable to advocate for themselves.
Right now, if you're thinking "Pfffft! Well I'd like to see that!"
Well yes it does, in Australia.
example:
"In December 2013 the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) took legal action against Apple, following a number of consumer complaints from Apple customers about their experiences dealing with the company. In particular, the ACCC was concerned that: >> Apple staff were not offering customers a refund, replacement or repair, under circumstances in which these remedies are required under the ACL. Apple staff were referring complaints about faulty items purchased from Apple, which were manufactured by a different suppler, to the manufacturer instead of dealing with the complaints themselves. Apple acknowledged that, in doing so, it made representations to consumers which may have breached the ACL and agreed to implement a number of compliance measures as part of a court enforceable undertaking. In the undertaking Apple publicly acknowledged that, without limiting consumers’ rights, the company would provide its own remedies equivalent to those remedies in the consumer guarantee provisions of the ACL at any time within 24 months of the date of purchase. To avoid any doubt, Apple also acknowledged that the ACL may provide for remedies beyond 24 months for a number of its products. The undertaking also required Apple to provide clearer advice to their customers about their consumer rights under the ACL via their staff, their website, call centre and packaging. Apple was also required to make available in its retail stores in Australia copies of the ACCC’s ‘Repair, Replace, Refund’ brochure"
Remember that for most places in the world, Apple's standard warranty is 12 months it's most profitable and best selling product the iPhone,
Australia. An interesting place for both consumer and goods/service provider...
(bold/italicised by me)
So for KEF to participate into the Australian consumer marketplace they have to provide repairs or spare parts for a reasonable time.
What constitutes are reasonable time depends on the product.
"How much time is ‘reasonable’?
This will depend on the type of goods.
For instance: "• it would be reasonable to expect that tyres for a new car will be available for many years after its purchase
• it may not be reasonable to expect that spare parts for an inexpensive children’s toy are available at all."
Reference:
https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/2016/05/0553FT_ACL-guides_Guarantees_web.pdf
Page 17- Repairs and spare parts:
"Manufacturers or importers guarantee they will take reasonable steps to provide spare parts and repair facilities (a place that can fix the consumer’s goods), for a reasonable time after purchase. This applies even if the consumer did not purchase the goods directly from the manufacturer or importer.
EXAMPLE
A consumer drops his digital camera, which he bought new a year ago for $2,000. He contacts the importer, as the manufacturer does not have an office in Australia, and asks where he can get it repaired. The importer advises they no longer supply parts for that model of camera. A reasonable consumer would expect a one-year-old camera valued at $2,000 to be repairable. The ‘manufacturer’ has not taken reasonable steps to provide spare parts or facilities, so the importer must provide a remedy. Given that a repair is not possible, the appropriate remedy would be to replace the goods or provide a refund."
So in short, it doesn't matter how long KEF thinks it should last for, or KEF's explicit warranty period.
A consumer can request that they repair or replace or refund it if it fails.
And if they (manufacturer or importer) refuse, then consumers can politely remind them about the Australian Consumer Law.
And if they still don't abide then you can take it to the Australia Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and they will act on your behalf.
Unfortunately many consumers do not know about this, or are unable to advocate for themselves.
Right now, if you're thinking "Pfffft! Well I'd like to see that!"
Well yes it does, in Australia.
example:
"In December 2013 the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) took legal action against Apple, following a number of consumer complaints from Apple customers about their experiences dealing with the company. In particular, the ACCC was concerned that: >> Apple staff were not offering customers a refund, replacement or repair, under circumstances in which these remedies are required under the ACL. Apple staff were referring complaints about faulty items purchased from Apple, which were manufactured by a different suppler, to the manufacturer instead of dealing with the complaints themselves. Apple acknowledged that, in doing so, it made representations to consumers which may have breached the ACL and agreed to implement a number of compliance measures as part of a court enforceable undertaking. In the undertaking Apple publicly acknowledged that, without limiting consumers’ rights, the company would provide its own remedies equivalent to those remedies in the consumer guarantee provisions of the ACL at any time within 24 months of the date of purchase. To avoid any doubt, Apple also acknowledged that the ACL may provide for remedies beyond 24 months for a number of its products. The undertaking also required Apple to provide clearer advice to their customers about their consumer rights under the ACL via their staff, their website, call centre and packaging. Apple was also required to make available in its retail stores in Australia copies of the ACCC’s ‘Repair, Replace, Refund’ brochure"
Remember that for most places in the world, Apple's standard warranty is 12 months it's most profitable and best selling product the iPhone,
Australia. An interesting place for both consumer and goods/service provider...
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Continuing with this thread.
Since the modern trend is speaker that are heard but not seen; 🤪 if we’re going to go ahead with this; what’s the shortlist for good shallow woofers with Vd=0.07L per driver.
Need 4 to reach the 0.28L to get the same displacement limited SPL as the LS60.
Sure anyone could make it bigger. But who can make ist the same size or smaller?
Don’t forget auto sound woofers that are competitively priced, come in 4 ohms or less and generally designed for small cabinets but to take a beating by the car audio nuts.
Since the modern trend is speaker that are heard but not seen; 🤪 if we’re going to go ahead with this; what’s the shortlist for good shallow woofers with Vd=0.07L per driver.
Need 4 to reach the 0.28L to get the same displacement limited SPL as the LS60.
Sure anyone could make it bigger. But who can make ist the same size or smaller?
Don’t forget auto sound woofers that are competitively priced, come in 4 ohms or less and generally designed for small cabinets but to take a beating by the car audio nuts.
Back in the day, I had a 12" shallow subwoofer from Earthquake in my car that could be side mounted in a LS-60 like box and used as a sub That particular driver is no longer around but there are plenty like it available.
I don't think there is enough width in a LS-60 cabinet for separate side woofers dual opposed for force cancellation, though. That is KEF's unfair advantage with custom drivers. Personally, I don't think it has to be that narrow to meet aesthetic requirements.
I don't think there is enough width in a LS-60 cabinet for separate side woofers dual opposed for force cancellation, though. That is KEF's unfair advantage with custom drivers. Personally, I don't think it has to be that narrow to meet aesthetic requirements.
Yes they have arrived in stock from the distributor.
Funny you should ask today.
I just auditioned them yesterday.
Unfortunately they weren’t very well setup. Or at least I will give them the benefit of the doubt. Alright so the bass was very extended for such a small speaker, but there’s not much else I can say that is very kind.
And I wanted to hear a passive KEF speaker to compare, but the dealer had none to demonstrate. So I will try again next week at a different dealer.
On the upside, the dealer told me that a new R series is coming this year.
Regards,
Thanh
currently in Melbourne, AUS
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