Where blind listening tests often fail is the sampling content……it’s gotta be content that is unfamiliar to the subjects and not of a genre that they prefer…..take ALL suggestive and expectation bias from the test.
Where are you planning to LP the woofer? Perhaps the lightweight Mg mono-suspension A5.3 will play loud enough for your test, sharp DSP ~200hz. I think the "default" M.O. is still FR+SUB unless proven untenable. Typically 8" Sub pair as high as 200-250hz if needed (with Lowther DX55). I will try that combo (JAMO SUB210 which normally assisted Monitor Audio Studio 2 as in 2L), as well as my 6.5" wonder woofers (CF-resin; Al2O3; Eve Audio honeycomb on get-list) which can LP anywhere. And fullrange TLonken (MLTL) with one or two 12" filler. I plan to stick to some kind of first-order XO assisted by natural or artificial fall-off. If and when I run out of hoarded parts (haha) then an ugly active LR4, eventually the PassDIY now that I (may) have a reason to finish it.
I was intending the LP would match the HP. Below 300 Hz would be no problem in terms of implementation but the lower the crossover the lower the clean SPL. A single 5W 85 dB 3" driver crossed to a subwoofer won't be able to play loud enough to be used in a normal listening test comparing main stereo speakers at standard levels in a reasonable sized room. Would wideband driver enthusiasts disagree with this?
This one is taking abuse with ease, well relatively! Expensive but impeccable build quality
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/wavecor/wavecor_wf120cu07.pdf
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/pdf/wavecor/wavecor_wf120cu07.pdf
??? Music tends to have lots of energy around 200 Hz with plenty of it transient. To reproduce that transient information (+10-20 dB) cleanly at 3-4m away (+10-12 dB) at a standard level of 80-85 dB requires the driver to cleanly reproduce transient at something like 110 dB at 1 m and preferably 115 dB assuming room reflections raise the average level a few dB. This is why midfield monitors have 10-12" woofers and high fidelity home towers 2 x 8" woofers. It's simply physics. (Some rooms can have the average levels raised by tens of dB of unpleasant sounding reflections around some frequencies but there is not much point performing listening tests in such rooms.)
I have decided to drop the proposed listening test. I may still buy a pair of wideband drivers to assess for my own purposes where they may make sense (e.g. arrays, budget 2 ways with large midwoofers, budget PC speakers, rear speakers,...) but not to use where they don't make much sense such as the proposed top for a woofer cabinet. Reading round this thread I learnt a bit more about them and it has increased my interest in having a play.
Never claimed that at these levels! I rarely listen that loud. Besides, I got these for late night movies. They are still technically one of the better wide band drivers...
Perhaps. But why use that driver? There are 3” and 3.5” drivers available that can play loud enough.
The point of the test was to use what wideband enthusiasts consider to be a good representative driver in a good representative way. Not what I think because I don't understand the appeal either from engineering considerations or from briefly listening to a few examples by others. With hindsight a better approach might have been to find a local wideband enthusiast that liked the idea.
If the crossover was raised to 500 Hz and a 90 dB 3" driver with a response to 10 kHz adopted would that be considered a good representative test by wideband enthusiasts crossing their 3" 5W 85 dB drivers to subs to achieve subjectively coherent sound?
I was going to just let this go because this is such a silly debate, but sitting here with nothing better to do at the moment...
This is not a "case in point", if anything this completely discredits your argument. Why would you completely ignore the rest of the speaker? Why don't the plasma super tweeters I mentioned matter? And if, as you say the Altec CDs are playing to 10khz and that's all that matters... Since I brought up hearing the Viotta One speakers and was unimpressed (to say the least), obviously there's more going on here than a simple FR that appeals. The debate based on my experience would be for horns, or for using a wideband as a midrange. But this isn't the only loudspeaker I've beard that impressed me, just one of the best I've heard.
And I've heard almost all those "top shelf" systems before and they didn't wow me like Andy's did. Avangarde horns don't have the presentation to me that Andy's did and I've heard those quite a few times. I stand behind my original comment that I have yet to hear a full-range or a wideband driver that wouldn't benefit from a tweeter. Obviously, based on this thread that doesn't make it a fact, it's my subjective opinion. And that's ok, some people like more pepper on their potatoes too. Who honestly gives a crap, not sure why arrogant individuals need to preach a subjective opinion like it's gospel, and everyone else needs to agree.
Yes you. Since I generally don’t like tweeters, I’d say some wide band drivers can be better without a tweeter.
Whoa there cowboy. Put those six shooters away. It’s just a discussion about what we like and what we choose to build with. Don’t shoot!
I know "me", that was the whole point of my post. Obviously there are different >opinions< about this subject. And if you read thru this whole thread, it's gone beyond just a discussion about subjective opinions quite a few times.Yes you. Since I generally don’t like tweeters, I’d say some wide band drivers can be better without a tweeter.
Whoa there cowboy. Put those six shooters away. It’s just a discussion about what we like and what we choose to build with. Don’t shoot!
The reality of the answer to the actual thread title is... Some think so, many others disagree.
Because in this case, the addition of a Plasma tweeter is near to the worst possible implementation of the device......if you’re perceptions of the importance of UHF were accurate, the combing and discontinuity caused by the extreme center to center distance of the horn and plasma would be unbearable........UNLESS you’re perceived presentation prefers the biological influence that pink noise brings to a room.....if that’s the case, just add a rear firing super tweeter to any speaker......lots of psychoacoustic based systems of yore did this and there’s no wrong here as you pointed out.
*Your
Either way, like I said, this thread is pretty silly and it goes way beyond subjective... "case in point" ☝️
@mattsk8 Yes, I have read the entire thread, thank you very much.
I was replying to your post, not summarizing the whole thread.
We get your point of view, you’ve expressed it well enough. But other people have legitimate reasons to disagree with you. No need to get upset when they don’t think as you do. Your posts look fairly subjective to me.
I was replying to your post, not summarizing the whole thread.
We get your point of view, you’ve expressed it well enough. But other people have legitimate reasons to disagree with you. No need to get upset when they don’t think as you do. Your posts look fairly subjective to me.