An old friend, now deceased, once told me of a shaman's rattle, containing quarts crystal inside. Such a thing actually exists; the lightning rattle. "These are rattles that produce brief flashes of light with hard shaking in a dark environment. This is a traditional effect..."
Let us assume if the quarts crystals therin are producing light when shaken, there's also an accompanying EMP. Not too far of a stretch.
"The shaman’s rattle is a most sacred instrument. The rattle is believed to embody the sacred forces of the cosmos through its sounds, structural features, contents, and connection to the spirit world. The gourd rattle is described as the sound of Creation. The creation stories tell of the first sound, a shimmering sound, which went out in all directions; this was the sound of “the Creator’s thoughts.” The seeds of the gourd rattle embody the voice of the Creator, since they are the source of newly created life. The seeds within the rattle scatter the illusions of the conscious mind, planting seeds of pure and clear thought".
So my curiosity is, if you live life in a fairly EMI free environment (1850s, Great Plains USA / Canada) then take one of these things and shake it hard, repeatedly near your head, is that going to have a mind clarifying effect as described? Or are we just so saturated in EMI these days, that any such influence is well below the noise floor of what's imparted more or less continuously? Also does the effect only work as a transient condition, that is, you have to be able to go back to an EMI free environment for the other 99.9% of your living?
I sometimes wonder about what's been taken away from the natural environment for the sake of communication convenience. (As John Lennon said, "I'm not the only one") I shudder to think what would have happened if Tesla got away with completing his energy transmitter, where all you'd have to do is put up an antenna anywhere on earth to harvest some watt-hours. Looks like we'll never know the answer to that "what if?"!
Ref: https://www.beardrum.com/lightningrattles.html
https://www.aaanativearts.com/the-shaman-s-rattle
Let us assume if the quarts crystals therin are producing light when shaken, there's also an accompanying EMP. Not too far of a stretch.
"The shaman’s rattle is a most sacred instrument. The rattle is believed to embody the sacred forces of the cosmos through its sounds, structural features, contents, and connection to the spirit world. The gourd rattle is described as the sound of Creation. The creation stories tell of the first sound, a shimmering sound, which went out in all directions; this was the sound of “the Creator’s thoughts.” The seeds of the gourd rattle embody the voice of the Creator, since they are the source of newly created life. The seeds within the rattle scatter the illusions of the conscious mind, planting seeds of pure and clear thought".
So my curiosity is, if you live life in a fairly EMI free environment (1850s, Great Plains USA / Canada) then take one of these things and shake it hard, repeatedly near your head, is that going to have a mind clarifying effect as described? Or are we just so saturated in EMI these days, that any such influence is well below the noise floor of what's imparted more or less continuously? Also does the effect only work as a transient condition, that is, you have to be able to go back to an EMI free environment for the other 99.9% of your living?
I sometimes wonder about what's been taken away from the natural environment for the sake of communication convenience. (As John Lennon said, "I'm not the only one") I shudder to think what would have happened if Tesla got away with completing his energy transmitter, where all you'd have to do is put up an antenna anywhere on earth to harvest some watt-hours. Looks like we'll never know the answer to that "what if?"!
Ref: https://www.beardrum.com/lightningrattles.html
https://www.aaanativearts.com/the-shaman-s-rattle
Effects from that level of discharge I'd be inclined to lump in with those of the God Helmet (not large enough to determine experimentally, apparently).
But at higher levels there's TMS, which seems to be gaining traction, and typically has short-term identifiable results. Seems 1-20 Hz is often used for that.
Assuming that's the frequency range necessary to produce an effect in the brain, nearly all the fields we're routinely exposed to are much higher frequency.
And no, I wouldn't suggest putting a subwoofer or its voice coil on your head to test the idea 🙂. The effects appear highly location and frequency specific, so getting to a good result haphazardly seems extremely unlikely. As with so many other things, producing a bad result or no result is a lot easier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
The God helmet is an experimental apparatus originally called the Koren helmet (or Koren octopus) after its inventor Stanley Koren. It was developed by Koren and neuroscientist Michael Persinger to study creativity, religious experience and the effects of subtle stimulation of the temporal lobes.
. . .
a group of Swedish researchers led by Pehr Granqvist, a psychologist at Uppsala University in Sweden, had attempted to replicate Persinger's experiments under double-blind conditions, and were not able to reproduce the effect.[8] The study was published in Neuroscience Letters in 2005.[10] Granqvist et al concluded that the presence or absence of the magnetic field had no relationship with any religious or spiritual experience reported by the participants, but was predicted entirely by their suggestibility and personality traits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulation
Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) is a noninvasive form of brain stimulation in which a changing magnetic field is used to cause electric current at a specific area of the brain through electromagnetic induction. An electric pulse generator, or stimulator, is connected to a magnetic coil, which in turn is connected to the scalp. The stimulator generates a changing electric current within the coil which induces a magnetic field; this field then causes a second inductance of inverted electric charge within the brain itself.
. . .
The effects of TMS can be divided based on frequency, duration and intensity (amplitude) of stimulation:[26]
Single or paired pulse TMS causes neurons in the neocortex under the site of stimulation to depolarize and discharge an action potential. If used in the primary motor cortex, it produces muscle activity referred to as a motor evoked potential (MEP) which can be recorded on electromyography. If used on the occipital cortex, 'phosphenes' (flashes of light) might be perceived by the subject. In most other areas of the cortex, there is no conscious effect, but behaviour may be altered (e.g., slower reaction time on a cognitive task), or changes in brain activity may be detected using diagnostic equipment.[27]
Repetitive TMS produces longer-lasting effects which persist past the period of stimulation. rTMS can increase or decrease the excitability of the corticospinal tract depending on the intensity of stimulation, coil orientation, and frequency. Low frequency rTMS with a stimulus frequency less than 1 Hz is believed to inhibit cortical firing while a stimulus frequency greater than 1 Hz, or high frequency, is believed to provoke it.[28] Though its mechanism is not clear, it has been suggested as being due to a change in synaptic efficacy related to long-term potentiation (LTP) and long-term depression (LTD).[29]
But at higher levels there's TMS, which seems to be gaining traction, and typically has short-term identifiable results. Seems 1-20 Hz is often used for that.
Assuming that's the frequency range necessary to produce an effect in the brain, nearly all the fields we're routinely exposed to are much higher frequency.
And no, I wouldn't suggest putting a subwoofer or its voice coil on your head to test the idea 🙂. The effects appear highly location and frequency specific, so getting to a good result haphazardly seems extremely unlikely. As with so many other things, producing a bad result or no result is a lot easier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
The God helmet is an experimental apparatus originally called the Koren helmet (or Koren octopus) after its inventor Stanley Koren. It was developed by Koren and neuroscientist Michael Persinger to study creativity, religious experience and the effects of subtle stimulation of the temporal lobes.
. . .
a group of Swedish researchers led by Pehr Granqvist, a psychologist at Uppsala University in Sweden, had attempted to replicate Persinger's experiments under double-blind conditions, and were not able to reproduce the effect.[8] The study was published in Neuroscience Letters in 2005.[10] Granqvist et al concluded that the presence or absence of the magnetic field had no relationship with any religious or spiritual experience reported by the participants, but was predicted entirely by their suggestibility and personality traits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulation
Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS) is a noninvasive form of brain stimulation in which a changing magnetic field is used to cause electric current at a specific area of the brain through electromagnetic induction. An electric pulse generator, or stimulator, is connected to a magnetic coil, which in turn is connected to the scalp. The stimulator generates a changing electric current within the coil which induces a magnetic field; this field then causes a second inductance of inverted electric charge within the brain itself.
. . .
The effects of TMS can be divided based on frequency, duration and intensity (amplitude) of stimulation:[26]
Single or paired pulse TMS causes neurons in the neocortex under the site of stimulation to depolarize and discharge an action potential. If used in the primary motor cortex, it produces muscle activity referred to as a motor evoked potential (MEP) which can be recorded on electromyography. If used on the occipital cortex, 'phosphenes' (flashes of light) might be perceived by the subject. In most other areas of the cortex, there is no conscious effect, but behaviour may be altered (e.g., slower reaction time on a cognitive task), or changes in brain activity may be detected using diagnostic equipment.[27]
Repetitive TMS produces longer-lasting effects which persist past the period of stimulation. rTMS can increase or decrease the excitability of the corticospinal tract depending on the intensity of stimulation, coil orientation, and frequency. Low frequency rTMS with a stimulus frequency less than 1 Hz is believed to inhibit cortical firing while a stimulus frequency greater than 1 Hz, or high frequency, is believed to provoke it.[28] Though its mechanism is not clear, it has been suggested as being due to a change in synaptic efficacy related to long-term potentiation (LTP) and long-term depression (LTD).[29]
Since I'm a fan of class d amps, I sometimes wonder about the possible effects of the high frequencys in the speaker cables, presumably there's still some left after the output filter. I've also thought about having a go at making some magnaplaner headphones, but the thought of magnetic coils pointing in my ears is a bit off putting. I strongly doubt that there's any risk/hazard in ether example, but it would be nice to know one way or another. Would shielded speaker cables by an idea?
See the middle paragraph of my post #15... Pretty sure one could tame it down with a good output filter design, encased in a faraday cage (metal box) with the caps right at the feed-through connectors, then to a 3.5 mm jack.
Now I know what to do with all those 12V relays I've been hoarding! Just kidding, though it would leave something interesting in the garage for after I pass. I would note that the shaman rattle of the "lightning" type probably produces an electrostatic field, versus electromagnetic. It would sure be a cool instrument to have. The guy who's website I linked above says he's retired...
While off topic to the thread, I can say I do notice some negative physical affect from a few different 3G / 4G devices and some home wifi routers.
For instance one certain type of 3G Modem card i was setting up for users at abusing i worked at would give me a piercing sensation in my head that would dissipate after a few minutes when the device was disconnected from the pc, used to set them up on.
I have also a couple of home routers and wireless Nic cards I simply cannot use as they give me similar sensations. Mostly a hot buzzy feeling around the head. Very annoying as I enjoy using wireless and mobile tech and would not want to give up doing so.
I cannot say that I have notice the same sensation around other people using any mobile or wifi equipment in a work environment or public area.
Working in ICT I have used many many laptop, iOS and android devices and owned several home routers, none of which cause me any bother at all.
Have no idea what causes thes sensations, but I cannot stand using the particular devices that cause this long enough to consider any damage occurring due to the very limited time I can let my self be exposed to them.
Still off topic… but happy to digress more if anyone has any insight to that.
Thanks for all the answers it is very clear that any risk from EMF in a home environment (and most any other environment that doesn’t involve very high power RF at close range ) is far fetched and not foreseeable.
Regardless of how far the fetching is, I still place my routers at opposite corners of the house, with a solid 25+ ft from their antennas to the beds where each occupant sleeps. I really should have xmas light timers to simply turn the damn things off during the night, when there no reason for them to be operating. But I'm lazy and dont want the hassle of them "not connecting" or presenting some other digital nonsense I'd have to work out first thing in the morning...
By removing the frame ground, any y filters in the unit will cause the frame to float well above ground due to the filter caps. In older units, it would be motor coil to ground capacitance. Of course there will be capacitive division from the fridge to grounded reference points in the kitchen, so the gradient will be different all around the room.
This is one of those duh moments...hey doc, it hurts when I do this...Well, then don't do that.. duh...
Disconnection of the frame ground is a direct violation of both code, and sanity.
John
My mothers 67 yr old aunt, bless her, went to a talk at Portsmouth University given by some nuttter about the dangers of EM radiation. Quite how they got to do this at an educational institution beggars belief but there you have it.
As a result, she has banned BlueTooth in her house. Her grown up kids have to turn it off on their phones when the visit.
I tried to explain to her what ionising radiation was but she would have none of it. Bluetooth was the one to watch out for apparently.
Wheres the despair emoji when you need one 🤣🤣
As a result, she has banned BlueTooth in her house. Her grown up kids have to turn it off on their phones when the visit.
I tried to explain to her what ionising radiation was but she would have none of it. Bluetooth was the one to watch out for apparently.
Wheres the despair emoji when you need one 🤣🤣
I'm 65 and I use bluetooth - occasionally. Just not every minute like that WiFi is on and working something out at 2.5 and 5G.
To me it's like that glyphosate stuff. They say the channel it operates on doesnt exist in the animal kingdom, so it's safe for humans - let's go nuts with it then; paint the earth with the stuff. Then they find it's like plastic has come to be; it's in everybody. Call me cautiously paranoid, for something I can do anything about. I cant not eat from the grocer, but I can move my router off the nightstand!
To me it's like that glyphosate stuff. They say the channel it operates on doesnt exist in the animal kingdom, so it's safe for humans - let's go nuts with it then; paint the earth with the stuff. Then they find it's like plastic has come to be; it's in everybody. Call me cautiously paranoid, for something I can do anything about. I cant not eat from the grocer, but I can move my router off the nightstand!
Make a list of all the things that might (will) harm you. If EMF isn't at or near the bottom it's time to go study science again, followed by logic and critical thinking. (He says, eating a highly refined sugar cookie and washing it down with an artificially sweetened soda.)
I’m not worried about EMF or wifi ,BT or 3G/4G.
I do find it curious why I have experienced effect from using some few particular devices, and not others.
In these cases it is so obviously painful / highly uncomfortable I don’t use these devices.
Hard to put that down to an irrational fear, unless it is a particularly inconsistent irrational fear.
I do find it curious why I have experienced effect from using some few particular devices, and not others.
In these cases it is so obviously painful / highly uncomfortable I don’t use these devices.
Hard to put that down to an irrational fear, unless it is a particularly inconsistent irrational fear.
What Ed is alluding to, is that there may be a possibility that they might be able to see some interaction in your brain as a result of the almost 2 tesla solenoid field of the MRI with the gradient coils and the RF excitation fields responsible for the procession of the magnetic domains (the resonance part of magnetic resonance) within your brain. However, I'm confident there will be nothing to see.
So, three possibilities:
1. There is nothing to be seen, it's all in your head (mentally, not physically).
2. There is something happening, but an MRI is not capable of seeing it.
3. There is something happening, but because they do not expose you to the same signals during the MRI, they can't see it.
Big problem is, most devices cannot work in a working MRI/gradient/RFI environment, and introduction of conductive objects in an MRI field tend to blur any images.
It is quite difficult to discern actual cause/effect or expectation bias for these kind of tests. Humans...pffft.
John
Yes it is a subject experience with these few devices.
However many people may dislike certain foods eg garlic or fragrance or perfume etc
The fact that an experience is subjective does not make it “all in your head”.
Though in the case I mention the physical sensation is around the head, and disappears after I switch the device off.
It is not imaginary and is specific and reproducible, however I don’t know how you could measure the sensation. I don’t think MRIs are really used for measuring sensation, rather testing subjects responses to clearly designed tests to establish brain activity for specific tasks or visual or sound stimulus.
If you were to undergo testing where you did not know if the stimulus were active or not, and you tested in the affirmative, that would be of interest.
If you are the one turning the device on and off, it becomes unclear.
Nature of the beast. Doesn't mean you are incorrect, just that it is not proven scientifically without bias.
I still love that reference to a cell phone/cancer link where more had cancer on the cell phone use side of the brain....50 on the same side, 49 on the opposite, with a sample size of 99. Sigh... so many people fail statistics...
Reminds me of the alzheimers/aluminum link where turns out there was grinding work being done on the aluminum HVAC ducts at the testing lab..
John
I’m not claiming these few devices cause cancer or do anything ‘harmful’ besides cause me discomfort so I sensibly don’t use them.
Yes If I took the devices to a lab and did some blind testing then perhaps that could validate my responses.
However if you assume they are valid, how would you go about assessing one of these devices against any other device that doesn’t induce the same response?
I’m sure however if I was far away from one of these devices when they are operated then I will not notice any sensation. Have not gone to any length to determine this with any accuracy.
(Edit… I took should have been if I took … now corrected)
Last edited:
If you feel discomfort when using them, then don't. It's all about you.. A friend asked me about those magnetic bracelets... while I know of no scientific reason they could possibly work, who am I to disagree with how he feels?
The medical profession has some experience in this kinda test stuff, I make no claims, as I really don't know this science stuff in my position as a waste management employee..
jn
edit: yes, I understood what you meant to say....