I'm starting a new project: the Yuichi A-480 FL for treble and Onken bass. I have had an AudioNote AN-E for 15 years, powered by my SE 300B. Very nice sound, but lacking in dynamics. Some time ago I was following a project from Andre (Hi-End and Hi-Eff loudspeakers system) and the idea came up.
I noticed that no one has tried (or just posted) a two-way variant with a smaller Yuichi horn in this forum. To my knowledge, the Faital HF108R is currently one of the most linear tweeters on the market. It can easily operate from 1kHz, unless high power handling is required. Given that I intend to drive these speakers with my SE 300B amplifier that has a maximum power of 8W / channel, and when cut at 1 kHz, the tweeter will barely receive about 20% of that power. So power handling is not a problem.
In the past, such high cuts (such as 1 kHz) for bass units were virtually impossible. This time I opted for the Beyma SM-115 / N bass unit. You can also find reasons for this decision in the forum from Andre. It can easily go up to 2kHz.
If anyone has experience in this regard, I will be glad to hear your opinion.
Here, I attach a photo of the first step: parts for Yuichi horn, directly from a CNC cutter.
Regards, Sam
I noticed that no one has tried (or just posted) a two-way variant with a smaller Yuichi horn in this forum. To my knowledge, the Faital HF108R is currently one of the most linear tweeters on the market. It can easily operate from 1kHz, unless high power handling is required. Given that I intend to drive these speakers with my SE 300B amplifier that has a maximum power of 8W / channel, and when cut at 1 kHz, the tweeter will barely receive about 20% of that power. So power handling is not a problem.
In the past, such high cuts (such as 1 kHz) for bass units were virtually impossible. This time I opted for the Beyma SM-115 / N bass unit. You can also find reasons for this decision in the forum from Andre. It can easily go up to 2kHz.
If anyone has experience in this regard, I will be glad to hear your opinion.
Here, I attach a photo of the first step: parts for Yuichi horn, directly from a CNC cutter.
Regards, Sam
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Opinion and personal taste: I don't see the point of running the woofer in the Onken up as high as possible and would rather use a bigger horn (and cross lower).
Judging from the couch as a reference the horn will easily load the driver down to 600Hz (guess).
Have you used horns before? What are your experiences and impressions so far?
Judging from the couch as a reference the horn will easily load the driver down to 600Hz (guess).
Have you used horns before? What are your experiences and impressions so far?
I have been a big fan of the SM115N on paper and am happy to see someone wants to use it in a 2 way. I look forward to your results.
Hi schiirrn,
I've made a lot of speakers already, and this is my first project with two-track horns (I've already done horns with Lowthers). I've heard about systems like this before, and I quite liked them.
Unfortunately, your proposal is not exactly what I strive to do. My desire is to make full range speakers with as few units as possible. If we lower the cut to 600 Hz, a 2-inch tweeter is generally required, but it is very difficult to cover the upper octaves. This is also why practically everyone uses an extra tweeter. A three-system switch is something completely different than a two-system switch. As I mentioned in the beginning, older bass units have a big problem with responding over 1kHz, so the cuts were so low as well. The selected Beyma SM115N does not have these problems and will only be used in its most linear part. But as mentioned: this is a project.
I've made a lot of speakers already, and this is my first project with two-track horns (I've already done horns with Lowthers). I've heard about systems like this before, and I quite liked them.
Unfortunately, your proposal is not exactly what I strive to do. My desire is to make full range speakers with as few units as possible. If we lower the cut to 600 Hz, a 2-inch tweeter is generally required, but it is very difficult to cover the upper octaves. This is also why practically everyone uses an extra tweeter. A three-system switch is something completely different than a two-system switch. As I mentioned in the beginning, older bass units have a big problem with responding over 1kHz, so the cuts were so low as well. The selected Beyma SM115N does not have these problems and will only be used in its most linear part. But as mentioned: this is a project.
Ok, I get your point.
Sidenote: Before moving on to different things I played around a lot with various Altec 604. Usually crossed somewhere around 1k5. I always liked them best with the horn enlarged.
Sidenote: Before moving on to different things I played around a lot with various Altec 604. Usually crossed somewhere around 1k5. I always liked them best with the horn enlarged.
Sorry, I kind of forgot about that. The speakers are made and burn-in slowly. The sound is very interesting, fast, clean, accurate. I am very pleased with this project. I drive them with a single ended 300B, 7W per channel. They can play very very loud, without any restrictions when choosing music (classical, rock, jazz, pop, electronics).
I am attaching a picture of the finalized speakers. In the end, due to the reasonableness of the dimensions, I decided on a bass reflex box, as the Onken would mean approx. 30% more volume, but they are already so huge. I didn’t want to compromise on the bass response and I wanted to drop them as deeply as possible.
Regards, Sam
I am attaching a picture of the finalized speakers. In the end, due to the reasonableness of the dimensions, I decided on a bass reflex box, as the Onken would mean approx. 30% more volume, but they are already so huge. I didn’t want to compromise on the bass response and I wanted to drop them as deeply as possible.
Regards, Sam
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Nice project....thanks for sharing.
I've built/owned many horns....Altec 511, 811, multi-cells, Yuichi 290, Azura 340, Iwata 300. I love "simple" two-way designs...and Altec have excelled in this area for many years.
My own personal system for many years was an Altec 416 15-inch woofer (famous)...coupled with a mid sized Mantaray 600Hz horn and 1.4 inch Altec 288 driver. Efficiency was approx 98dB. Box size was 225 liters. See pic of grey speaker.
Speaking of Onken, my Altec buddy just finished a 360 liter Onken with the massive Mantaray horn. This was probably the best system I have ever heard...despite not having a dedicated tweeter. The aluminum or titanium diaphragms used in the Altec CD's offer good HF extension, while perhaps not reaching 20k.....but even at 16-17k, they're very good.
Even though the Beyma can extend to 2k, I think you're wise in trying to lower the xover point. As others have said, crossing over around 500-600Hz may have been better....but you would then have needed a bigger horn, eg Yuichi 290.
All the best with your project.
I've built/owned many horns....Altec 511, 811, multi-cells, Yuichi 290, Azura 340, Iwata 300. I love "simple" two-way designs...and Altec have excelled in this area for many years.
My own personal system for many years was an Altec 416 15-inch woofer (famous)...coupled with a mid sized Mantaray 600Hz horn and 1.4 inch Altec 288 driver. Efficiency was approx 98dB. Box size was 225 liters. See pic of grey speaker.
Speaking of Onken, my Altec buddy just finished a 360 liter Onken with the massive Mantaray horn. This was probably the best system I have ever heard...despite not having a dedicated tweeter. The aluminum or titanium diaphragms used in the Altec CD's offer good HF extension, while perhaps not reaching 20k.....but even at 16-17k, they're very good.
Even though the Beyma can extend to 2k, I think you're wise in trying to lower the xover point. As others have said, crossing over around 500-600Hz may have been better....but you would then have needed a bigger horn, eg Yuichi 290.
All the best with your project.
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Hi @atilsley ,
which of these horns did you prefer? I have been contemplating between multicells (1505B), Yuichi 290 and Iwata 300..
Well, that's a very good question. I didn't try the 1505B, but I did have the 'smaller' 10 cell horn, 805 model. I thought that horn was cleaner/nicer sounding than the 811 and 511 bi-radial horns. Of those two, I definitely liked the bigger 511 horn, especially if using a large format (1.4 inch) driver.
The first horn I built was the Yuichi 290S (with fins). This is a good product and operates very well. I was lucky that my client had invested in expensive Radian Beryllium 2-inch drivers, which made the sound really sparkle. The other three 'modern' horns I've either owned or built into systems are the Azura 340, the Iwata 300 and Jabo 300. All three used two inch drivers, and were crossed fairly low, eg 500-600Hz. I think that is a good way to go.
Of the three, I thought the Iwata had the nicest sound....though I would say it's fairly subjective, as each horn is similar in characteristic/size. The Azura (Australian built by Martin Sneddon) uses the rolled back Le Cleach profile, which is excellent. The Iwata does look funny though...a bit like a bathroom sink!
These three horns were paired with:
Azura 340, Faital Pro HF200 CD, 250 liter ported cabinet with Faital Pro 15-inch woofer, crossed at 550Hz. See pic.
Iwata 300, Faital Pro HF200 CD, Open Baffle with dual AE 18-inch di-pole woofers per side, MiniDSP for bass and passive for horn, crossed at 600Hz.
Jabo 300, Radian 950 Beryllium CD, with Beyma TPL-150 AMT tweeter, plus dual 10-inch AE woofers. Active xover for bass, passive for horn/tweeter, crossed at 600Hz/4,000Hz. See pic (with me posing!). Curved CNC'd birch ply cabinetry. Client had very high front-end, with 300B SET mono block amps for horns, Audio Note 45 valve amp for tweeters...and massive Krell SS for bass. A fun project...not cheap.
Oh, I forgot...I also had Stereolabs 300Hz and 1,000Hz stone/composite horns, plus a rough mid-bass horn. See pic of blue horns.
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Thanks...though I'm not a horn designer...I'm a horn builder. The Altec 564 Mantaray is constant directivity, which I thought sounded very good. For my new large TV/Channel speaker, I'm using SB Audience CD horns. Their stereo imaging and quality is also very good, given the lower cost nature of that project. (See separate thread.)
https://www.sbaudience.com/index.php/products/horns/horn-h225/
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Sorry for the off topic post… I was reading your comments about the Azura 340 in another thread. Is the 340 with JBL 2440 still one of the best options for purchasing locally in Aus?
I was considering acoustic elegance td15x drivers reusing existing FLH ~300l reflex cabs. Azura 340 on top, pointed down toward listening position.
Well, I think that combination would sound wonderful. I've used dual 18-inch AE dipole woofers in an OB, with Iwata 300Hz horn on top. The AE products are exceptional. Also, I think the large JBL 2440 would pair very well with the Azura....and you could cross it over quite low, eg 500Hz in a domestic setting. While I hold JBL/Altec in the highest of regards, I think the modern drivers from Radian, B&C, Faital Pro etc offer outstanding offerings. Additionally, you can up the ante with beryllium diaphragms. The Jabo 300 horn (with USD$1,300 each) Radian 950 Be 2-inch drivers had a lovely sparkle and sweetness. Very beguiling. I've just built a small horn system for my TV and chose SB Audience compression drivers (one inch). The built quality and weight is good...and they sound very good....and they're cheap. Hope your project goes well....I don't think you can beat a quality "simple" two-way horn system.
Sorry, I must have missed your earlier posts.
Which drivers do you use in combination with the SB Audience H225 and what's the crossover freq.?
You're probably aware of the 'supposed' drawbacks of diffraction horns?
The Mantaray horns are classics and therefore often cloned. I have a couple of B&C ME60s which is an example.
They sound and work very well above 1000 Hz, below that the reponse ripples increase due to the undersized mouth.
As you may know, SB Audience also sells a clone, the H280.
I'm using the SB Audience Bianco 44CD one-inch driver with 'PEEK' diaphragm. I'm using a first-order passive xover (for now) crossed @ 1,600Hz. This two way stereo system is used as a large TV "centre channel"...so I'm aiming for clear voicing instead of outright critical music listening. Still, I've had many horn systems...and I think my little rig is sounding good.
I've also dampened the horns using silicone on the rear sides.
Regards.
https://www.wagneronline.com.au/sb-...-speakers-pa/bianco-44cd-pk-89862/1002195/pd/