Hello all
Everyone who know me understand that I am a big Audio Physic fan, so when I see this one launched at hi end München show, I am getting really stunned... at every point. There are many things that tick boxes here
https://www.audiophysic.com/en/medeos/
This is a really complex thing to do, 5 way with 3 separate cabinets each side.... Call me absolutely insanely crazy but I am thinking, is this a project I would like to consider?, maybe 😱
It could be a setup with Bliesma beryllium tweeters and hi mids, Purify mids and woofers, several possibilities with subwoofers. But to have any chance it must be active with digital crossovers, this would easily be a €20K to €30K project, so there is pretty high risk here.... I have a working title of "project madness" 🤣
I have not been doing any simulations or calculations on cabinets sizes and/or setup yet.....
Any thoughts guys
Everyone who know me understand that I am a big Audio Physic fan, so when I see this one launched at hi end München show, I am getting really stunned... at every point. There are many things that tick boxes here
https://www.audiophysic.com/en/medeos/
- Point source, or really close to point source, the whole passband down to around 300 Hz is managed by the central 3 drivers really close together, the other drivers symmetrically around this point.
- Lot of cone area in the mid-bass up to 300 Hz, must leave us with unreal dynamics, and there is nothing like lots of cone area
- Woofers for midbass located low and high which means it triggers different room modes and so should be more even mid-bass and less room influence with mid-bass, the same gows for the lower bass
- Integrated subwoofers, an all in one solution that makes it feasible to place even in a medium size flat (like mine)
With four large / tall towers my place would look like Stonehenge, I don´t want that.... this is also going into the main living room - Really really really cool design, the way it looks, IMHO 😍
This is a really complex thing to do, 5 way with 3 separate cabinets each side.... Call me absolutely insanely crazy but I am thinking, is this a project I would like to consider?, maybe 😱
It could be a setup with Bliesma beryllium tweeters and hi mids, Purify mids and woofers, several possibilities with subwoofers. But to have any chance it must be active with digital crossovers, this would easily be a €20K to €30K project, so there is pretty high risk here.... I have a working title of "project madness" 🤣
- Bliesma T34B beryllium tweeter
- Bliesma M74-B beryllium upper midrange
- Purify 5.25" midrange down to 300 Hz
- 4 * Purify 6.5" Midbass 100 til 300 Hz
- 8 * Purify 8" sub-bass or many other choices from Seas, Peerless, ScanSpeak, SB Acoustics....
- Marani LPP480A FIR Speaker management system (only supports up to 2 x 4 channels though)
I have not been doing any simulations or calculations on cabinets sizes and/or setup yet.....
Any thoughts guys
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Well, as someone else elsewhere wrote, any enclosure with edges like these is suboptimal, for obvious reasons. This is no assault on the design capabilities of Gerhard, but the bucket list for this speaker obviously not only was good acoustic performance.
There is a thousand compromises with any speaker, your comments is not really what I was asking for here
Designer is not Gerhard, but Manfred Diestertich .... Joachim Gerhard now runs Suesskind and has several other design lines ...
Still, placing the tweeter and mid slightly off center to counter (the worst bit of) diffraction that you know will happen isn't the best way to deal with it.
If looks are more important than function I do begin to wonder about having the priorities straight.
All I can offer as advice is to take up Vituixcad, build a model with the appropriate drivers into it (using on and off axis data) and see what it brings.
That alone will provide the answers if a project undertaking like this has any merit, as when used properly these models offer a great deal of useful data
to predict the outcome of a project like this. So spend some time on that first, before committing on driver choices. I think it is wiser to work out the
concept first, and then determine which drivers will fit the functionality instead of the other way around. The sim will show that kind of info about the
most fitting crossover frequencies to use to maintain proper directivity control etc. Not as nice as dreaming of those boutique driver choices but it
will result in a better end product. If that can satisfy your goals.
It may not be what you wanted to hear/read... but I don't buy into the high price tag, because this isn't THE EXCEPTION to diffraction.
Diffraction is real, but should not be necessary at these levels...
On the other end, it isn't a wrong idea to be inspired by this and do a better job 😉.
If looks are more important than function I do begin to wonder about having the priorities straight.
All I can offer as advice is to take up Vituixcad, build a model with the appropriate drivers into it (using on and off axis data) and see what it brings.
That alone will provide the answers if a project undertaking like this has any merit, as when used properly these models offer a great deal of useful data
to predict the outcome of a project like this. So spend some time on that first, before committing on driver choices. I think it is wiser to work out the
concept first, and then determine which drivers will fit the functionality instead of the other way around. The sim will show that kind of info about the
most fitting crossover frequencies to use to maintain proper directivity control etc. Not as nice as dreaming of those boutique driver choices but it
will result in a better end product. If that can satisfy your goals.
It may not be what you wanted to hear/read... but I don't buy into the high price tag, because this isn't THE EXCEPTION to diffraction.
Diffraction is real, but should not be necessary at these levels...
On the other end, it isn't a wrong idea to be inspired by this and do a better job 😉.
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It may very well be that this is not the answer to what I want.... Maybe I am like a lady
I don´t know what I want, I only know what I don´t want 🤣
As @wesayso already knows, I am very very hard to please and at the end of the day I only really trust what I hear....
Vituixcad yes, thx for advice @wesayso
This could, however .... be an inspiration and I could end up with something way better 😍
How to get coherence with such a complex setup, many challenges here 😆
I don´t know what I want, I only know what I don´t want 🤣
As @wesayso already knows, I am very very hard to please and at the end of the day I only really trust what I hear....
Vituixcad yes, thx for advice @wesayso
This could, however .... be an inspiration and I could end up with something way better 😍
How to get coherence with such a complex setup, many challenges here 😆
Most certainly! More important than the driver choices you end up with is integration!
The important question being: which driver can do this specific task.
If you end up with the drivers you listed: all the better... but the task at hand should be the priority.
That determines the specific driver needed to do that job.
Almost all projects I've read about do it the other way around.
The important question being: which driver can do this specific task.
If you end up with the drivers you listed: all the better... but the task at hand should be the priority.
That determines the specific driver needed to do that job.
Almost all projects I've read about do it the other way around.
Looks like the grill is actually holding that foil in place with those chicken legs. Weird, very weird.
They definitely some crazy speakers they'd want to sound the best at 160K, Im a little confused about their specs
- Weight: Unfortunately, we did not have a Libra at hand. We estimate around 200kg.
- Frequency response: Our measuring device says 23 Hz – 40 kHz. Probably more
What I'm seeing is a stationary magnet behind a frame. The bridge framework that holds the foil also oscillates. It can't have much xmax as the framework is meant to be rigid with the triangular structures. Being that it's glued to the foil across the surface in the fingered or even fractaled structure, i wonder if it's more of a bending wave style driver.
on the new Cardeas that came about a year ago, they created as far as I know, the first spiderless midrange drivers, the idea I believe is to kill the reflections imposed by the spider and as well get rid of the effects of the spider in the way that it may reduce dynamic capabilities, the idea being that the spider acts as a brake on the diaphragm.
This has later been trickled down to the Codex and Midex models, as far as I know it´s only the midrange driver that does not have a spider here... I auditioned the Codex with upscale Burmester electronics, but not very thoroughly, and so I have not yet been convinced about the beauty of the spiderless designs...
I think they call it powertrain
This new midrange driver with a foil has been patented, it is not industrialized, so there is heaps of work making this foil driver... it´s all made by hand making it very expensive
The idea and what I am looking for is a speaker that has the heart of a mini monitor, meaining it has that insane magic and "being there sensation" that only a minimonitor can do, and as well have that scale as a large floorstanding can do..... this is very difficult thing to do; I think John Dunlavy did this with his large coffin sized speakers, but I must admit I can´t really remember any speaker doing this, maybe Kef Muon, but the price is way beyound grasp.
I think this could possibly be done by a DIY´er but I am not sure.... as @wesayso states, I think Integration must be king for this to work... and there are heaps of very expensive traps in such a project 😱
This would be an insane project with lots of risk and I am not sure I am ready for it 🤣
This has later been trickled down to the Codex and Midex models, as far as I know it´s only the midrange driver that does not have a spider here... I auditioned the Codex with upscale Burmester electronics, but not very thoroughly, and so I have not yet been convinced about the beauty of the spiderless designs...
I think they call it powertrain
This new midrange driver with a foil has been patented, it is not industrialized, so there is heaps of work making this foil driver... it´s all made by hand making it very expensive
The idea and what I am looking for is a speaker that has the heart of a mini monitor, meaining it has that insane magic and "being there sensation" that only a minimonitor can do, and as well have that scale as a large floorstanding can do..... this is very difficult thing to do; I think John Dunlavy did this with his large coffin sized speakers, but I must admit I can´t really remember any speaker doing this, maybe Kef Muon, but the price is way beyound grasp.
I think this could possibly be done by a DIY´er but I am not sure.... as @wesayso states, I think Integration must be king for this to work... and there are heaps of very expensive traps in such a project 😱
This would be an insane project with lots of risk and I am not sure I am ready for it 🤣
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I couldn´t agree more !
Unfortunately I don´t know enough about different driver capabilities in order to match the requirements towards drivers, that´s not an easy feat 🤔
By the way, I should soon be able to audition the new Cardeas, in order to unnderstand how this works....
Also to hear, what are the effects of this cabinet design, in a hi-end room with hi-end electronics
If I don´t get goosebumps, and if it´s not complete magic, then I consider it a failure 🤣
Also to hear, what are the effects of this cabinet design, in a hi-end room with hi-end electronics
If I don´t get goosebumps, and if it´s not complete magic, then I consider it a failure 🤣
Well, if you want to match or stay close to the light weight spider less driver(s) used in the Medeos you probably won't end up with Purify drivers...
the 4" Purify driver I looked at had a 11.7 gram moving mass figure.
In that case a spider-less full range Alpair 7 MS driver from Mark Audio with light weight cone would come closer, right? Mms being ~3.3 gram.
Just as an example of how wildly different designs can be.
Yes, I can see that the Purify drivers are not that lightweight, looking at some of the Seas Excel nextel midrgange drivers, they are more lightweight and real pure midrange... but what I may think is that the Purify drivers excel when it comes to low distortion and from what I have heard their midrange performance is unreal 🤔
I don´t think there are any spiderless drivers available anywhere!
Hello Haraldo
I have listened to this speaker you fell in love with and looked it up closely since I found the construction to be very interesting... the drivers layout and the integration of glass.
I didn't imagine the price to be so high! Alas, the hifi world really gone mad 😪
I was unimpressed with the presentation at the show, (maybe show conditions to blame)
Yet I do not want to discourage you, I simply believe you can do better.
I have listened to this speaker you fell in love with and looked it up closely since I found the construction to be very interesting... the drivers layout and the integration of glass.
I didn't imagine the price to be so high! Alas, the hifi world really gone mad 😪
I was unimpressed with the presentation at the show, (maybe show conditions to blame)
Yet I do not want to discourage you, I simply believe you can do better.
Drivers are too far apart for it to be a point source… so it fails on that point. And little care to diffraction is strange.
dave
dave