Question for Vineet.
Are you thinking about making the electronics as well as the speakers?
Or are you buying that side, Behringer/MiniDSP etc?
DIY; active or passive is not something you do to save money usually; it's something to satisfy other functions and sometimes you can achieve something better for an equal cost but because you don't have the economies of scale and have to buy everything at retail it is hardly ever cheaper like for like.
Retail my tweeters were $96- each. buy a thousand and they were $22- each, and so on with all the bits
Are you thinking about making the electronics as well as the speakers?
Or are you buying that side, Behringer/MiniDSP etc?
DIY; active or passive is not something you do to save money usually; it's something to satisfy other functions and sometimes you can achieve something better for an equal cost but because you don't have the economies of scale and have to buy everything at retail it is hardly ever cheaper like for like.
Retail my tweeters were $96- each. buy a thousand and they were $22- each, and so on with all the bits
I see what you are saying, but the problem is in trying to scale down.
My current main speakers consist of the following.
A Ground Sound DCN28 that was around $6-7k (with the software dongle - close to $1000)
A 7 Channel Halcro amp I got on special for $5,500 (was a run out special)
The speakers (per side) consist of:
1 x RAAL dipole ribbon tweeter $997 each plus shipping - https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/ribbon-tweeters/raal-dipole-140-15d-ribbon-driver/
2 x Scanspeak 12MU/8731 $316 each plus shipping - https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...anspeak-illuminator-12mu/8731t-00-4-midrange/
1 x TC Sounds Pro 5100 ~$1500 each with shipping
So each speaker comes to $3,129
2 x $3,129 = $6528 + shipping half way around the world, taxes etc etc
$6528 + $7,000, $5,500 = $18,758 and that is without additional speaker wires or interconnects for all the extra channels.
Let's call it an even $20k for what I have currently out (have lots more drivers in boxes).
If I bought the $40k speakers I still would have need an amp to go with it of suitable quality. The problem is trying to scale back. Where do you cut the corners?
OK I probably could have bought cheaper drivers that performed equally well. But lets say I shave $3k off those. I really couldn't go much cheaper on crossover and amplification if I wanted to stay at the level I am at.
You could buy something off eBay for next to nothing but you are not going to get the same kind of tunability or quality you get from buying a brand name.
You are going to get exactly what you pay for and that is a greatly diminished result at which point you may as well stay with the pretty store bought speakers.
So there is only so far down you can down scale and still stay ahead of the sound curve for the budget.
The lowest I would go is something like a MiniDSP (never used one but hear good things) but you can't expect it to perform like my Ground Sound or a DEQX they are in completely different leagues. Then what kind of multichannel amplification of any quality are you going to get cheap enough to do your drivers justice? Remember that you now need 3 or 4 times the amount of amplification channels to power the speakers.
So there comes a point where lets say you were talking a $10k budget I would say with some careful buying, a lot of research you could out perform active speakers costing a lot more. BUT and it is a big but, you are only talking about the cost of two speakers here not a full HT setup. So for two channel I say go nuts and go active but for HT unless you have money falling out of your pockets it is really hard to go past passive.
I am looking at DBX PA2 as that has 6ch processing and 3-way crossover capabilities. Initially was looking at MiniDSP 2x4 HD. And for AMP I am looking at Texas Instruments TPA3220EVM.
You are saying that you could not have cut cost by much to achieve similar performance. I never said I had to cut cost. You simply are not getting my point. I am saying that you achieved $40K(Branded) costing sound for less than $20K(DIY). That is it. That was my point. Simple as it. I am not saying that you need to achieve it under $10K. I said that if you managed to make $20K(DIY) speaker sound better than $40K(branded) speaker then I bet you can make $10K(DIY) speaker sound better than $20K(branded). That is what I said.
With some careful selection, a few good deals, maybe buying some stuff second hand it is possible to achieve, but the point I am trying to make is there is a point of diminishing returns. With a healthy budget doing active DIY it is definitely possible to build something that can outperform of the same cost or well more than store bought. But that same story doesn't hold true if the budget is $500. So the answer is both yes and no depending on the budget.
After so much discussion, it may have come to a point of making first mistakes, I mean start building an active version of speakers. 🙂
Though the proposition would seem to make sense in the beginning, it may not be true unless you DIY every aspect of the active speaker that is the multichannel processing and amplifiers, in addition to DIYing the speaker, collectively known as the B-chain, as also mentioned by Moondog55 above.
Unfortunately, your idea is not DIY, as you're planning to acquire separate retails units like MiniDSP, amplifier modules etc. in hopes of plumbing them together to make an active multi-way system.
On the other hand, if you get hold of a good 3-way speaker design (or copy one) to make 10 units of the same, you could buy all your supplies in bulk, and thereby save a lot of money.
You are right. But please can you help me find some good 3-way speaker design. With either SB Acoustic or Dayton Audio or Fountek or Tang Band mix. No Seas or Scan-speak or some other brands into the Mix. I cannot source in those drivers unless I have to pay crazy over price at which point the budget will skyrocket.
I will happily take on a tried and tested design. As long as I can get all the components for it in a meaningful budget.
It depends on where people are coming from and what true might mean to them. Classicalfan considers a $500 DIY small 2 way to be better than $5000 commercial speakers. This may be perfectly true for him but it won't be for most people. The OP has put forward his views on the sound quality of speakers which aren't aligned with a conventional view of high fidelity which is fine when it comes to a preference. It makes providing positive suggestions difficult though if one can't understand what is being strongly valued but because "better" in this case involves a degree of preference "simply isn't true" is too strong without "for most people".
When it comes to a pair of reasonable quality active 3 ways being built for $1000 with easy-to-use DIY parts then I think we can say it is simply untrue because it doesn't involve preference in any significant degree just adding up numbers for a full set of typical parts. This has been pointed out to the OP by several people but he doesn't seem to accept it as true. Why isn't clear.
See I think you misunderstood my dislike towards Emotiva to be based on pricing or something. Which is not the case. Let me give you an example. I have tried and tested many headphones and even own multiple of them upto $1500 price range but the one I like the most which is the best and in league of its own is the SONY MDR-7520 they are the best headphones under $2000 range. While they only cost below $500. The clarity and detail the neutrality and the ability of not being painful and harsh while not loosing any detail at all on the high end thanks to its elevated roll-off at the high end. The low end presence to perfection not boomy nut packs and delivers puch when and where needed and then settles to bring up the detail. Closed back headphone but has very decent Soundstage and perfect imaging. No coloration at all. You can absolute perfect recreation of what a track was recorded with the intent of. See I care for sound quality. Have some expectations and if a product under delivers like Emotiva I would not consider it.
I bet you have listened to Emotiva towers. Would you consider them Neutral detailed and clear. Definitely not. Are they bright like SVS nope. Are they warm Nope. Okay cool. What are they. They are covering all three aspects to some extent but not capturing any. That is what I said. Okay I think I should give them credit for dispersion and coverage but they are not outstanding(not bad but there are better options available for just a but extra)at that either.
$1k- for the speaker parts is about what my drivers cost when I purchased a number of years ago.
Then a couple of hundred hours of box building and tweaking, just as well I didn't have to pay myself by the hour.
Of course I'm a Vifa tragic and my speakers can't be replicated now and the sub drivers went AWOL a decade or more ago when Cerwin-Vega went sideways into SPL territory
Then a couple of hundred hours of box building and tweaking, just as well I didn't have to pay myself by the hour.
Of course I'm a Vifa tragic and my speakers can't be replicated now and the sub drivers went AWOL a decade or more ago when Cerwin-Vega went sideways into SPL territory
VINEET REDDY speakers are always going to be coloured till you lose the box. Have a listen to some open baffle speakers if you want to set the music free (probably not the best HT speakers though).
Moondog55: Vifa is a classic example of quality speakers on a budget (owned by Scanspeak I believe). The first set of speakers I ever built were centered around the P17WJ's before they did the cheap knock off drivers.
I listen to those speakers today (20+ years later at a friends place) and I still can't help be impressed with them for the price. No they don't compare with Scanspeak I have in my system, but considering they are a fraction of the cost, I think they do a remarkable job for the dollars.
I still have a pair of the paper 10" kicking around here somewhere. Was going to use them in a sub but that got shelved a long time ago.
Moondog55: Vifa is a classic example of quality speakers on a budget (owned by Scanspeak I believe). The first set of speakers I ever built were centered around the P17WJ's before they did the cheap knock off drivers.
I listen to those speakers today (20+ years later at a friends place) and I still can't help be impressed with them for the price. No they don't compare with Scanspeak I have in my system, but considering they are a fraction of the cost, I think they do a remarkable job for the dollars.
I still have a pair of the paper 10" kicking around here somewhere. Was going to use them in a sub but that got shelved a long time ago.
Majority are yes. I am fine with that. I don't need neutral set. What I need is Bright or Warm set. I would only go Neutral if I have to use it for Music. Nothing else.
Well DBX do make good gear, slanted towards the live sound market like Behringer but a step up in quality I guess, Good luck with it anyway.
Yeah that is always a trade off. I watch movies on mine but they lack that middle oomph you get with some drivers / speakers. My goal was a neutral as I could possibly get across the entire range. I want an instrument to sound like it does it real life. A piano on mine sounds like a piano not a synthesizer.
Movies are a whole different ballgame, where accuracy is not a high priority. I tried to get mine to do both which meant a compromise on the HT end of the scale. I have enough drivers in boxes to build a completely different HT setup. For those speakers they will be passive boxed speakers.
With all the fancy electronics these days you need a specific point source speakers to recreate the movie.
Here's a thing.
"Bright" speakers seem to infer a rising response in the treble and the specification for HT is usually for a reduced and falling response in the upper ranges.
"Warm" is a smooth peak in the midbass, speakers that make Barry White sound even richer.
You can have both if you want but I'd not choose either for home theatre, what you need is clarity in the spoken voice, which is why I stressed the importance of that 300Hz to 3000Hz intelligence band.
Your call tho.
"Bright" speakers seem to infer a rising response in the treble and the specification for HT is usually for a reduced and falling response in the upper ranges.
"Warm" is a smooth peak in the midbass, speakers that make Barry White sound even richer.
You can have both if you want but I'd not choose either for home theatre, what you need is clarity in the spoken voice, which is why I stressed the importance of that 300Hz to 3000Hz intelligence band.
Your call tho.
I am not aware of any, maybe someone else can help you with that. You could also copy a professional speaker whose performance you trust.
I'm using Behringer DCX 2496 and still coming to terms with it's functionality, a step up from the previous CX 3400 plus tone controls and graphic EQ.
Pre is a rebuilt Azure 540E,
HT is some cheap Harmon-Kardon 7.2 and Sansui 2-Ways
Pre is a rebuilt Azure 540E,
HT is some cheap Harmon-Kardon 7.2 and Sansui 2-Ways
I think @classicalfan can help me here. He has provided me with some good sources for Speakers. I think he can possibly have a clue.