Guess I was not clear. D'Apolitto is designed to be vertical. No dispute there. I am saying there are other crossover alignments which do not accentuate the narrowing of dispersion and are better suited to horizontal. It is often confused that any MTM is a D'Apolitto alignment which is incorrect.
Wel, some of the larger Mark Audio drivers are quiet sensitive and good with treble. The 5 1/2" CHN110 comes to mind just like it's smaller brother the CHR90 who are both 89dB.
I use the CHN110 in an MLTL and even people who don't like fullrange say theis got a very good hi and relative even dispertion for such a size of fullrange driver. And btw, i use that MLTL (89dB) with an ACA amp in stereo modus (class A transistor 7.5w per channel) for the moment and i'm not lacking power on those...
But in general, fullrange that are relative small (and so got a good treble) in general are not sensitive, at least not like you wish. Some say they are, but in reality their sensivity is way overrated. If you need more than that 90dB forget fullrange and get dome or compression drivers as tweeters.
I use the CHN110 in an MLTL and even people who don't like fullrange say theis got a very good hi and relative even dispertion for such a size of fullrange driver. And btw, i use that MLTL (89dB) with an ACA amp in stereo modus (class A transistor 7.5w per channel) for the moment and i'm not lacking power on those...
But in general, fullrange that are relative small (and so got a good treble) in general are not sensitive, at least not like you wish. Some say they are, but in reality their sensivity is way overrated. If you need more than that 90dB forget fullrange and get dome or compression drivers as tweeters.
"I vote for dayton rs225"
Many thanks. Here, in UK Dayton's are a bit expensive. Thanks to post Brexit fees, I would get Seas or SB for a few bucks extra, but RS225 is a excellent mid-woofer, especially for 2 way. Do you know some tweeter matching to RS225?
Many thanks. Here, in UK Dayton's are a bit expensive. Thanks to post Brexit fees, I would get Seas or SB for a few bucks extra, but RS225 is a excellent mid-woofer, especially for 2 way. Do you know some tweeter matching to RS225?
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I have worked with Dayton RS125, RS225 and RS390HO and HF. Very good drivers. Also tried the Seas L22 - which I like... but here it's even more expensive than the SB and Dayton.
I see the RS225 to be a good candidate for your project... but I would surely mate it with a bigger waveguide, to get the crossover as smooth as possible - maybe around 1300hz, that seems to work great in speakers like Dutch & Dutch 8C.
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I bought my Dayton RS225 for £79 each on Amazon
Yes Amazon.
Just putting that out there.... well ok it isn't a reliable source, but they can be found.
Cheaper than buying Visaton AL200 (and I really had to talk myself out of buying the Visaton, as I generally love them all!)
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Scan Speak has a few metal cone woofers (22W/8857 etc.).
However, I am not convinced that your goal of "coherent sound like your headphones" has a lot to do with the cone material. My OSMCs sound very coherent (like a headphone, but in a room), and it uses a paper woofer, a textile dome mid, and a textile tweeter.
However, I am not convinced that your goal of "coherent sound like your headphones" has a lot to do with the cone material. My OSMCs sound very coherent (like a headphone, but in a room), and it uses a paper woofer, a textile dome mid, and a textile tweeter.
And the room and the dispersion.
Horns and cardioids will give more of a headphone effect as there is less room interaction.
I found the Visaton Casablanca MKIV a interesting build.
CASABLANCA MK IV | Visaton
Uses the Aluminum Cone AL200
To bad Dayton is so expensive in your area.
Even the classic DC200- 8 speaker goes very deep
in the right box. Realistic 30 Hz f3
DA215-8
the aluminum version has better topend
so is feasible in a 2 way. Higher sensitivity
realistic f3 is not as low around 40 Hz
If your familiar, or wish to be familiar using .FRD and .ZMA
files.
Dayton provides these files for all the drivers.
So you dont even need the equipment to capture the
measured frequency response.
Same with the tweeters.
If you are looking for something clean past 10k
you can view real world .FRD measurements of all the tweeters.
Likewise can design the crossover with ease with impedance .ZMA
files and .FRD frequency responses.
CASABLANCA MK IV | Visaton
Uses the Aluminum Cone AL200
To bad Dayton is so expensive in your area.
Even the classic DC200- 8 speaker goes very deep
in the right box. Realistic 30 Hz f3
DA215-8
the aluminum version has better topend
so is feasible in a 2 way. Higher sensitivity
realistic f3 is not as low around 40 Hz
If your familiar, or wish to be familiar using .FRD and .ZMA
files.
Dayton provides these files for all the drivers.
So you dont even need the equipment to capture the
measured frequency response.
Same with the tweeters.
If you are looking for something clean past 10k
you can view real world .FRD measurements of all the tweeters.
Likewise can design the crossover with ease with impedance .ZMA
files and .FRD frequency responses.
Attachments
Lucky you! I had a few purchases from Amazon as well, but they aren't quite reliable. Most of the drivers are out of stock for more than a year.
I think it is a trap, and one I fall into, to generalize paper, poly and metal cones. Each has advantages, each difficulties. It depends on execution. Same with soft vs hard domes. Some soft domes breakup and scream, some do not. Some metal domes are easier to tame than others. Mg easier than Al, Be maybe easier yet. Every AMT I have heard has been way too bright and bottom end distorted, but careful examination tells me people cross them too low and do not taper off the top end enough. So, bad execution, not bad technology.
All that said, I have had the best overall success with modern paper cones and Al/Mg tweeters. But I tend to build 2 way monitors so I am forced into difficult and complex crossovers. Next time I am going to try a wide band mid and shallow crossovers. This may let me go back to an RS series woofer. 8 inch on the side, 4 and 1 on the face. Maybe the larger RS woofer, RS100 and XT25 as the 100 can cross high enough for the Vifa. 4K up it is pretty sweet and dirt cheap. 400 and 4 K second order?
All that said, I have had the best overall success with modern paper cones and Al/Mg tweeters. But I tend to build 2 way monitors so I am forced into difficult and complex crossovers. Next time I am going to try a wide band mid and shallow crossovers. This may let me go back to an RS series woofer. 8 inch on the side, 4 and 1 on the face. Maybe the larger RS woofer, RS100 and XT25 as the 100 can cross high enough for the Vifa. 4K up it is pretty sweet and dirt cheap. 400 and 4 K second order?
I apologize for my ignorance, but what means "cardioid"? I've heard that word in relation to microphones. How it works within the speakers?
Cardioid | Definition of Cardioid by Merriam-Webster
"Heart shaped curve" I can see how that could be achieved in the band where a driver ceases to be omnidirectional and not fully beaming yet.
Horns have some advantages, but some real difficulties. My first choice for a PA. My last choice for a living room. Others disagree.
Dayton expensive. Sorry while I chuckle as now you know how we feel about drivers made on your side of the pond and are outrageous here. Seriously, ignore who pays what and make a decision on your price for the performance. Not mine. The RS are very good. but so are SS, SEAS, SB, VIition, CSS, Purify... Not a fan of Focal or Eaton.
"Heart shaped curve" I can see how that could be achieved in the band where a driver ceases to be omnidirectional and not fully beaming yet.
Horns have some advantages, but some real difficulties. My first choice for a PA. My last choice for a living room. Others disagree.
Dayton expensive. Sorry while I chuckle as now you know how we feel about drivers made on your side of the pond and are outrageous here. Seriously, ignore who pays what and make a decision on your price for the performance. Not mine. The RS are very good. but so are SS, SEAS, SB, VIition, CSS, Purify... Not a fan of Focal or Eaton.
I got some experience in speakers building during the last five years, but my limited knowledge doesn't allow me to determine how a particular speaker sounds, having its TS parameters or frequency response graph only. Maybe I was wrong presuming, that the driver's cones, made of the same material would sound the same way.
Anyway, it's my hobby and I have no time to get deeper into the rabbit hole, but your advices are priceless. Many thanks!
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Here you got your little "treblemaker" 😀 Though price is higher now...
Test Lautsprecherchassis Breitbander - Monacor SPX-20TB
Test Lautsprecherchassis Breitbander - Monacor SPX-20TB
A four years ago I was looking for this driver, but seems it has been discontinued and I had to use SPX 20M. I've used many Monacor's in the past and TBH they have large deviations in their parameters, especially the cheaper ones.