Coming out from my last project 7+4+1,which sounds pretty good, but not amazing. Although I've played with the passive x/o for almost 3 years and I got relatively flat response (+/- 3dB), I've never got the same coherent sound like my headphones. I suppose the different cone materials sound quite different way - the polypropylene midbass is punchy and dynamic, the paper mids are soft and delicate and the dome highs aren't sufficient in the top range over 10kHz. As a result the brass instruments and the cymbals sound quite unconvincing.
BTW I would like to try something with metal cone drivers. For more simplicity, I'll try some WAW with SB65WBAC25 without tweeter, crossed within 400 - 500Hz range, where is the baffle step frequency. The SPL over 1kHz is about 85dB, so I'll need some 8-9 inch, 4 ohm Al cone woofer with sensitivity 89 - 90dB (with serial inductor it drops to 88dB and 3 - 4dB for the baffle step).
My first choice was SB23NACS45-4 - pretty good on paper. Fitted in 45l ported box seems it has capability to reach f3 of 37Hz and f10 of 22Hz. Unfortunately it's not available in UK, but it's in stock in Soundimport NL.
Do you have any other suggestions?
Thank you in advance
Regards
BTW I would like to try something with metal cone drivers. For more simplicity, I'll try some WAW with SB65WBAC25 without tweeter, crossed within 400 - 500Hz range, where is the baffle step frequency. The SPL over 1kHz is about 85dB, so I'll need some 8-9 inch, 4 ohm Al cone woofer with sensitivity 89 - 90dB (with serial inductor it drops to 88dB and 3 - 4dB for the baffle step).
My first choice was SB23NACS45-4 - pretty good on paper. Fitted in 45l ported box seems it has capability to reach f3 of 37Hz and f10 of 22Hz. Unfortunately it's not available in UK, but it's in stock in Soundimport NL.
Do you have any other suggestions?
Thank you in advance
Regards
Thank you for your reply.
I know that Visaton's. They are good, but they have paper cones, also they have limited Xmax 3.5mm, compared to SB Xmax 6.5mm. Also I have to attenuate the widerange driver with some serial resistor, because of the lower sensitivity. Probably you mean Visaton Al 200, which is 8ohm only, but worth to be considered.
SB has Qts 0.33, which looks very suitable for vented application.
I know that Visaton's. They are good, but they have paper cones, also they have limited Xmax 3.5mm, compared to SB Xmax 6.5mm. Also I have to attenuate the widerange driver with some serial resistor, because of the lower sensitivity. Probably you mean Visaton Al 200, which is 8ohm only, but worth to be considered.
SB has Qts 0.33, which looks very suitable for vented application.
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Eton Orchestra 8 inch
Wavecor WF223
Aurum Cantus AC200
those would be first choices if I would like to have great sound. They still costs cheap compared To Scan Speak but delivery hi-end sound.
Wavecor WF223
Aurum Cantus AC200
those would be first choices if I would like to have great sound. They still costs cheap compared To Scan Speak but delivery hi-end sound.
If you want to try a WAW then do a search for XRK’s WAW in the Full Range section of this forum with a Dayton RS225 plus a number of small full range options (10f8424, Visaton B80 etc.). In the UK Dayton are hard to get and not cheap to import.
The SB 23CAC plus 15CAC mid and SB26CDC is a good combo if you want sharp and revealing, the CAC is basically the NBAC/ADC with a ceramic deposit on the surface which pushes up the break up a few Hz.
The SB 23CAC plus 15CAC mid and SB26CDC is a good combo if you want sharp and revealing, the CAC is basically the NBAC/ADC with a ceramic deposit on the surface which pushes up the break up a few Hz.
AC200, forgot that one that should be talked in the Harbeth thread about poly cone 🙂
On the three you talk about The Wavecor seems a great choice but the op needs Al and greater sensitivity than a Wavecor ! He can also consider the Dayton 8" Al, but here in Europe the SBAcoustic is as cheap.
On the three you talk about The Wavecor seems a great choice but the op needs Al and greater sensitivity than a Wavecor ! He can also consider the Dayton 8" Al, but here in Europe the SBAcoustic is as cheap.
For a 3 way the efficienty of the CAC is better in the low. The Wacore is lower as usual with Wavecore if I remember.
I begun a two way with the SB23CAC in 28L sealed around 500 XO LR2 with a 3" SS 10F both 8 ohms.
I begun a two way with the SB23CAC in 28L sealed around 500 XO LR2 with a 3" SS 10F both 8 ohms.
Visaton AL 200 looks very good match, at least on paper. And yes, it's expensive, but it's available in UK.
Its sensitivity in desired range is about 84-85dB and reaches 88-89dB at 800Hz. Also its impedance is 8 ohm. To save some money from inductors value and keep sensitivity a bit higher I prefer 4 ohm drivers.
Its sensitivity in desired range is about 84-85dB and reaches 88-89dB at 800Hz. Also its impedance is 8 ohm. To save some money from inductors value and keep sensitivity a bit higher I prefer 4 ohm drivers.
Have you guys used Audiohobby.eu?
Apparently European based.
Anyway, one of the best 8” woofers I’ve seen measurements on, AND used, is the Dayton RS225-8.
Upsides-
1. class leading distortion up to 300Hz:
Reference:
RS225
2. Goes really low in a ported box.
Reference:
Speaker Design Works
Downsides
1. Hoffman's iron law- needs a bigger box and lower sensitivity to get there
eg. 40L, tuned to 27Hz; F3/F6/F10 29/24/20Hz, ~86dB/2.83V before baffle step losses)
It’s cleaner than the SB23; and you have to spend a LOT more to get better performance (the Revelator 8” or Satori 9.5”). But for the price of these latter drivers you could get TWO RS225. Is it a fair fight? Well if you can squeeze in 2 woofers in a similar cabinet volume I think it is…
Apparently European based.
Anyway, one of the best 8” woofers I’ve seen measurements on, AND used, is the Dayton RS225-8.
Upsides-
1. class leading distortion up to 300Hz:
Reference:
RS225
2. Goes really low in a ported box.
Reference:
Speaker Design Works
Downsides
1. Hoffman's iron law- needs a bigger box and lower sensitivity to get there
eg. 40L, tuned to 27Hz; F3/F6/F10 29/24/20Hz, ~86dB/2.83V before baffle step losses)
It’s cleaner than the SB23; and you have to spend a LOT more to get better performance (the Revelator 8” or Satori 9.5”). But for the price of these latter drivers you could get TWO RS225. Is it a fair fight? Well if you can squeeze in 2 woofers in a similar cabinet volume I think it is…
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For sure Dayton drivers are great. Unfortunately they aren't easily available here in Europe. Their price is almost the same like SB drivers. I know RS225 is probably the best 8 inch driver, but it doesn't cover my requirements, as you can see.
SB65 is always pretty low sensitivity. I don’t think you’ll get 85dB @1Khz from it
References: 5E Engineering
SB65WBAC25-4
References: 5E Engineering
SB65WBAC25-4
Dayton RS225 would also what i suggest, or the smaller RS180 that also can go quiet low without loosing it's good mid response. The RS180-4 is 90dB, needs a small cabinet (30L ported for an F3 of 32Hz) but is a 7"
Most metal cone 8” drivers are designed to meet around 85dB. Like most other 8” hifi drivers. People expect low end extension. Not high efficiency. Seas Excel drivers get near your goals though.
I had a look at the 8" SB acoustics. It is a pretty high efficiency speaker. If you match it with this it might not balance well since efficiency is quite low.
How I would do it is to choose a crossover frequency that coincides with the baffle step compensation. So everything will balance better with minimal interference. If you choose a small driver about 86-87 db will be better match.
I am also a SB acoustics fanboy but the 2.5" driver you have chosen is not popular in the full range forum probably because of the low sensitivity and low power handling. Hard to match and let it go loud, I think it was intended as a desktop speaker.
Personally I like the Faitalpro 3Fe22. I understand it is not expensive in Europe since it is manufactured in Italy. Worth trying and see which one you prefer.
Oon
How I would do it is to choose a crossover frequency that coincides with the baffle step compensation. So everything will balance better with minimal interference. If you choose a small driver about 86-87 db will be better match.
I am also a SB acoustics fanboy but the 2.5" driver you have chosen is not popular in the full range forum probably because of the low sensitivity and low power handling. Hard to match and let it go loud, I think it was intended as a desktop speaker.
Personally I like the Faitalpro 3Fe22. I understand it is not expensive in Europe since it is manufactured in Italy. Worth trying and see which one you prefer.
Oon
The sensitivities I display aren't absolute, just relative, they aren't indicative of a driver's real-world sensitivity.