Hmm, actually, violins have overtones to 16 kHz, so missing out on up to a full octave unless hearing only goes to 8 kHz, not to mention other horns: Interactive Frequency Chart - Independent Recording Network
Yeah, having had A4 Altec cinema horns in a 1/2 cathedral ceiling ~26 x 46 ft 'great' room, it really spoils one for anything less except for scaling them to fit a smaller room or at least switching to the small A5/7 VOT or at least a 15"/CD horn, though for me it's dual 15" to get efficiency up a bit.
Yeah, having had A4 Altec cinema horns in a 1/2 cathedral ceiling ~26 x 46 ft 'great' room, it really spoils one for anything less except for scaling them to fit a smaller room or at least switching to the small A5/7 VOT or at least a 15"/CD horn, though for me it's dual 15" to get efficiency up a bit.
I think he's joking. 😉
A bit like this undead-thread.
Whoever would have thought this load of tosh started by a troll would get brought back years after the fact?
A bit like this undead-thread.
Whoever would have thought this load of tosh started by a troll would get brought back years after the fact?You would consider high fidelity / high technical performance to be optional rather than a requirement? One can certainly make a case for attractive sound effects being "good" but one can also make a case for them being "bad". Meaningful communication about sound quality requires making this sort of thing clear which non-technical "subjective" enthusiasts often don't want to do possibly because it implies they prefer a distorted sound.
Enthusiasm for single driver speakers has always baffled me. They don't distort in a way that seems attractive to me and nobody has yet to either demonstrate "coherence" to me or provide a technical description of what it is. As best I can determine it is one of many audiophile terms that is used to convey "good" or "bad" in a way that can't be tested or checked. Just the job for marketing but 100% meaningless when it comes to engineering.
Perhaps I should add that seeing what can be achieved with a simple and modestly priced single driver is a fun task. Issues only arise when claims are made for high fidelity / high technical performance which they simply don't possess.
Hi Andy,
For me it is a requirement yes but i don't think (anymore) my preference should rule the world and following my mood, my preferences can vary.
Full Range i often had around when i worked in studio ( there was most always a pair of Auratone in control rooms) and their issues were useful when mixing. That said i would not use Auratone at home as my main loudspeakers given i listen to a lot of bass heavy material and i like a bit of spl too and listening at ~3m distance.
At home i have 2 pairs of FR which play regularly: in the kitchen and a fast/waw i built for late night listening in 'very' nearfield conditions.
Sure they are not the pinnacle of accuracy ( to me) but the one in the kitchen are dedicated to radio ( mostly talks) and the waw to low level listening and both are pleasing to me in their intended use.
I don't get the issue about accepting distortion as being subjectively acceptable: i had multiple distortion stomp box when i played bass in metal bands, regularly used distortion to bring 'life' to 'flat/boring' takes when mixing ( in // to non treated chanel) even on non aggressive music ( and many many others do the same), we delibaretly used some gear because it overload gracefully or induce non intended conditions for them to have a 'sound' ( Urei 1176 comp with all ratio push button on, aka 'nuke mode') ,...
For monitoring or critical listening i have other loudspeakers which are less prone to this and switch between them, but they have other issues too.
For me it is a requirement yes but i don't think (anymore) my preference should rule the world and following my mood, my preferences can vary.
Full Range i often had around when i worked in studio ( there was most always a pair of Auratone in control rooms) and their issues were useful when mixing. That said i would not use Auratone at home as my main loudspeakers given i listen to a lot of bass heavy material and i like a bit of spl too and listening at ~3m distance.
At home i have 2 pairs of FR which play regularly: in the kitchen and a fast/waw i built for late night listening in 'very' nearfield conditions.
Sure they are not the pinnacle of accuracy ( to me) but the one in the kitchen are dedicated to radio ( mostly talks) and the waw to low level listening and both are pleasing to me in their intended use.
I don't get the issue about accepting distortion as being subjectively acceptable: i had multiple distortion stomp box when i played bass in metal bands, regularly used distortion to bring 'life' to 'flat/boring' takes when mixing ( in // to non treated chanel) even on non aggressive music ( and many many others do the same), we delibaretly used some gear because it overload gracefully or induce non intended conditions for them to have a 'sound' ( Urei 1176 comp with all ratio push button on, aka 'nuke mode') ,...
For monitoring or critical listening i have other loudspeakers which are less prone to this and switch between them, but they have other issues too.
Yes, i'm well aware of the difference between both and thougth my own preferences was clear in what i stated before.
My point is about the facts that some audio amateurs see distortion as an 'evil' ( despite listening to things which produce it, FR, tube amps or preamps, you name it) and are shocked when this is pointed to them.
It is a flaw which can be acceptable to many ( euphonic rendering). Like the drawback induced by using a xover anyway.
If harmonic distortion was this unacceptable it would not have been used first by musicians to make a 'nicer' sound from their instrument ( electric guitar).
For my own preference if i want accuracy for critical listening i've got threeway with 15".
My point is about the facts that some audio amateurs see distortion as an 'evil' ( despite listening to things which produce it, FR, tube amps or preamps, you name it) and are shocked when this is pointed to them.
It is a flaw which can be acceptable to many ( euphonic rendering). Like the drawback induced by using a xover anyway.
If harmonic distortion was this unacceptable it would not have been used first by musicians to make a 'nicer' sound from their instrument ( electric guitar).
For my own preference if i want accuracy for critical listening i've got threeway with 15".
Many male voices benefit from careful eq'ing around 10kHz and you can make a kick drum sound totally different by eq'ing the 6-8kHz region.
Wow, didn't know that somehow someone recorded Beethoven playing a pianoforte.
And with all due respect your argument is really flawed. You are talking about FM which is limited to 12.5 - 15 kHz so even 8kHz (which is I believe C9 on the piano) is not reproduced faithfully. Little wonder it sounded bad.
Poor Beethoven.
I agree Brett and why i put it between '...' .
This is a cultural thing:
most musicians i played with found clean sound not nice though ( power chords sound lame without a Jcm or a Dual Recto pushed).
This is a cultural thing:
most musicians i played with found clean sound not nice though ( power chords sound lame without a Jcm or a Dual Recto pushed).
I find there is a world of difference between distortion introduced by an instrument (amplifier) and by a link in the replay chain.
I get it, which was why I emphasised different. James Taylor's Fire and Rain sounds 'better' with the acoustic distorted? I also like my 68 LP through a DI straight into the main (hifi) system. Not a classic distorted tone, but not ugly either.
My guess is
this guy got banned due to his exposing the fact that xover type speakers are ,,plain and simple, straight to the point,, flawed
And not by a little, But big time flawed
Got 40 yrs in this hoobby to back this opinion up.
🙂
No, dear. He got banned because he was a troll, deliberately spamming the forum with phoney threads and fake 'questions'. I know. I was there, so unlike yourself, I am not churning out speculation, but stating fact. You would know this yourself if you bothered checking before making uninformed and utterly nonsensical accusations: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/search.php?searchid=24979053
As for your crusade 'against XO types', you may wish to reflect on the fact that
a/ You're using them yourself -that's what those capacitors you keep going on about are. And
b/ Every video you've posted to date sounds rubbish. Granted, most youtube videos sound bad, but even accounting for that -they ain't good. So while we all (to a point) have a fondness for our own gear, I fear at present you're not overly well-placed to lecture anybody else about subjects your own posts demonstrate you don't have a particularly good grasp of. Especially when it comes to telling other people what they should and shouldn't like, and insulting those who do not conform to your own questionable opinions -which some might consider a trifle rude, n'est ce-pas? 😉
As for your crusade 'against XO types', you may wish to reflect on the fact that
a/ You're using them yourself -that's what those capacitors you keep going on about are. And
b/ Every video you've posted to date sounds rubbish. Granted, most youtube videos sound bad, but even accounting for that -they ain't good. So while we all (to a point) have a fondness for our own gear, I fear at present you're not overly well-placed to lecture anybody else about subjects your own posts demonstrate you don't have a particularly good grasp of. Especially when it comes to telling other people what they should and shouldn't like, and insulting those who do not conform to your own questionable opinions -which some might consider a trifle rude, n'est ce-pas? 😉
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Yes, black helicopters came in low one night, rough men rushed in and took him, then flew him to a secure location, that technically does not exist.
I'm glad to hear your hearing goes to 20000 hz. Mine stops at 14 khz, due to US Army service. Most US men over age 12 I know can't hear how missing the highs are on a Yamaha console piano. Like the entire leadership of a church I left recently. They donated the Baldwin Acrosonic piano to a family, because it had a scratch on the front. The salesman in a suit told them the Yamaha was "better".
Nice post, Just winderful
Alot I want to comment on, but short on time at the moment.
So yeah as my tech geek mentioned, even thougha classical instrument orch is mostly not above say 4khz,, we want the AMBIENCE of the tweeter.
Agree
I had a 2.2 Mundorf SESGO cap on the paperv tweet , takes it to say 9khz,,then I went to a Mundorf 8 EVO silvergold,, WOW opened up the tweeter and madea nice gain.
So anyway,,short on time
Your 2 way is really a horn with massive 15 inch woofer assist .
So not really a true multi/xover thing.
I am 5 minutes from the airport, please stop] in when Frankenstein is finally finished,,say late March,
Trio of Full Range + dual W18E001's + the Be/Nd tweeter.
If Wilson , Tekton and Sonus faber can have 5+ drivers in each cabinet, I ffigure thats a darn good idea