Was there a question buried in there somewhere?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IOW you want me to boil down all my words to least amount?
OK You got it
Xover type speakers aka *THe INdustry Speakers* have ruled and reigned for too long.
Time to wave the WBer banner and let everyone know there are new kids on the block and they mean business.
The End
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IOW you want me to boil down all my words to least amount?
OK You got it
Xover type speakers aka *THe INdustry Speakers* have ruled and reigned for too long.
Time to wave the WBer banner and let everyone know there are new kids on the block and they mean business.
The End
Hmmmm.... This seems very Strawman to me. Did anyone actually say that, or did you come to that conclusion yourself? That statement does not sound like anything I've actually heard someone say.
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Yes strawman.
But there is one , and only 1 member who takes time to responds to my posts, Lets say confronts and attempts to squash my ideas about this issue of xover types vs WBers.
Everyone else has no interest in what WBers are really truthfully all about.
Its all xover commercial/consumerism designs that make front page news there.
WBers do not even exist.
Whereas its my firm belief, WBers are the only way to approach high fidelity in music.
My testing proved what I had a hunch about.
Things have gone full circle.
Speakers began with wide band, and now after some detours along the way,,are back to WBers as speaker of choice for true high fidelity.
The WBers developed in Chicago and Berlin 1920's, are now being re-born, given new life, new blood.
They are here yet too few audiophiles are even aware they exist or of their true potential to make music come alive in the sound system.
This is my thesis, my gripe.
xover type designs are cheating folks out of a real higher musical experience.
Yet they show no interest in these musical wonders.
~~~~~~~~~~
Yes strawman.
But there is one , and only 1 member who takes time to responds to my posts, Lets say confronts and attempts to squash my ideas about this issue of xover types vs WBers.
Everyone else has no interest in what WBers are really truthfully all about.
Its all xover commercial/consumerism designs that make front page news there.
WBers do not even exist.
Whereas its my firm belief, WBers are the only way to approach high fidelity in music.
My testing proved what I had a hunch about.
Things have gone full circle.
Speakers began with wide band, and now after some detours along the way,,are back to WBers as speaker of choice for true high fidelity.
The WBers developed in Chicago and Berlin 1920's, are now being re-born, given new life, new blood.
They are here yet too few audiophiles are even aware they exist or of their true potential to make music come alive in the sound system.
This is my thesis, my gripe.
xover type designs are cheating folks out of a real higher musical experience.
Yet they show no interest in these musical wonders.
Wow. A lot of words for an 8 year old thread
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the past 8 years, alot has happened in the developement of WBer designs.
I must thank the china tech geek whoever he is, for cloning either the AER or Voxativ and giving me access to a more reasonable priced speaker affordable to the avg Joe.
xover types have made miniscule developements past 8 years, vs WBers revolutionary high end speakers.
I hear xover types as The Dinasuars. next to a quality WBer.
Its all about the midrange.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In the past 8 years, alot has happened in the developement of WBer designs.
I must thank the china tech geek whoever he is, for cloning either the AER or Voxativ and giving me access to a more reasonable priced speaker affordable to the avg Joe.
xover types have made miniscule developements past 8 years, vs WBers revolutionary high end speakers.
I hear xover types as The Dinasuars. next to a quality WBer.
Its all about the midrange.
It's a made up word to try to put an intangible quality on something to try to make it seem 'better'. Like calling something 'cool'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I need to call my stepfather to see if Hell has frozen over because I agree with 'goners.
Or perhaps that just found your bombardment mentality annoying. You've made a ton of assertions as though they are fact with little to zero to back them up. You strike me as a fanboy looking to troll, something I've not generally found in the WR forum here.
I don't like WR drivers and they lack in a number of areas, hence why I have few these days, though I did try quite a number in years past. Whilst I like some of their characteristics, their flaws were too great to continue down that path. You love them? Fine, please enjoy and I feel zero need to bombard the WR forum with a dozen word salads telling them they're wrong.
You need to get out more. Not one of my current multiways is below 95dB/W above 60Hz or so and it's been that way for over 25 years.
One could also easily state; "Yes widerange speakers are flawed.
Plain and simple."
Physics doesn't care for your opinion.
Yep, fanboy.
WRers have been around for a century. They're not going to take over anytime soon except in things like BT speakers, and even those only sound good because of a lot of processing onboard.
xover types even if hitting 100db, are FLAWED. plain and simple.
I've heard enough of those dinasuars to know WITHOUT HEARING the A-Z they are all flawed.
Straight shooting.
I call xover types The Wet Blanket Sound.
Cause thats exactly what they are.
95db sens> Yeah right,,,like Seas Crescendo 92 db tweete,, if its 82db, thats being generous.
Xover types hijhacked what was perfection, taht is Wide Ranges from the 1920-s all the way through say 1960;s EV, Jensen and others.
Xover owners only IMAGINE they are listening to great highfi sound.
Its all a fantasy.
The midwoofers have serious resonances and the tiny tweeters struggle to voice a orchestra's fullness.
Garabage all of them. Just trash.
I've heard enough of those dinasuars to know WITHOUT HEARING the A-Z they are all flawed.
Straight shooting.
I call xover types The Wet Blanket Sound.
Cause thats exactly what they are.
95db sens> Yeah right,,,like Seas Crescendo 92 db tweete,, if its 82db, thats being generous.
Xover types hijhacked what was perfection, taht is Wide Ranges from the 1920-s all the way through say 1960;s EV, Jensen and others.
Xover owners only IMAGINE they are listening to great highfi sound.
Its all a fantasy.
The midwoofers have serious resonances and the tiny tweeters struggle to voice a orchestra's fullness.
Garabage all of them. Just trash.
FTFY.
I had a WR type once that hit 100dB. Then the cone hit the floor.
You need to get out more. I designed and built them, so I know exactly how they measure.
Oh, you're being serious?
Thanks for the laugh, but I'm going to unsub from the thread now as you remind me of a religious zealot so having any sort of fruitful discussion isn't likely to happen = I know because I grew up with some of them. I'm sure you'll find hundreds of others to join you in your compound.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
I like both multi way and Full Range single drivers. I accept that the full range driver has it's limitations but my Audio Nirvana Super 15 covers ALL the frequencies that I can hear and does so very nicely indeed with a wide area of listening spots. I find multi-way a better solution when playing loud, especially Home Theatre. I'm about to play with horn speakers, not sure what I'll discover yet but by their nature they should be multi-way.
p.s. not worth arguing names but just to say I like to use the term Full Range. In the spirit of Dale Carnegie, it establishes a positive reputation for these drivers to live up to.
p.s. not worth arguing names but just to say I like to use the term Full Range. In the spirit of Dale Carnegie, it establishes a positive reputation for these drivers to live up to.
ahhh i see the button at the bottom now, thanks
and I get to use smileys,,
lets see which smileys do the xover fan-atics wish to smile back at me
🤐
any others you guys wish to add as comments on my ideas/opinions lately
😛
WBers top sens should be not more than 95db, better 93/94 db sens. At 95+++ its way too much midrange, bass gets cheated out its share of the fq.s
AER and some Vixtaiv are wayyy too sensitive for my use.
Near field, small room.
I am a religious zealot about WBers,. No denying this evident fact.
Sorry you will not stick around, its really all about learning.
Fruitful? Meaning I can not accept xover types as speakers for front center ofa system,. No can't accept.
Wet Blankets, no thanks.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
What about a whizzer cone? - once again, very happy with Audio Nirvana Super 15, with the large 15" cone it gives good output at low frequencies and with small cone movement distortion is minimal. The high frequencies require a whizzer cone. It works marvelously, in conjunction with a phase plug. You can avoid a whizzer if using a much smaller driver but then you lose out in the bass. So is this a bad approach too? because a whizzer is really jut a mechanical XO, in effect, you still have an XO.
I've looked at the Nirvanas,
Did not like things about the construct/design.
Glad you mentioned multi ways as a good choice for HT, thats really all they are good for.
Note 1 member has called it quits on my topic.
Seems some folks are so attached to multi ways, they can not bear to hear any criticism, blantant flaws in their fav speakers.
Truth hurts.
He mentioned I seem like a religious kook about Full Range speakers.
He nailed it
I am the biggest fan of Full Range
It was likea Revelation the power and musical wonders of these *odd, weird things*.
= I had no idea how they worked until I ordered a few.
Then after each model it became more evident and clear just how special these **things** really were.
I am a seed planter.
Perhpas in decades to come others will look over all my posts on various web sites YT videos and begin to ck out these **unusual speakers*
I realize many of you tech geeks already knew about these speakers.
I recall back in 2002-2005 the Fostex and Lowther came up but rarely.
For every 1000 posts on xover types maybe once was posted something about Full Range.
I can now listen to classical music in the textures and ambience that it deserves, FULL RANGE. Seamless low resonances low coloration not stressed no fatigue.
Sheer pleasure and a joy.
By the way, this site has a dedicated "Full Range" forum. You may get a more active discussion from like-minded people over there...
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Joined 2009
Paid Member
indeed, but I think Paul wants to sit down the other end of the stadium, wearing his full range colours whilst sitting amongst the ranks of the multiway supporters 😀
Mozartfan,
I'm sure many people are happy to know you find your audio nirvana.
But what is the point of all this denigration of other people preferences or needs?
I mean is there only one kind of music style or one kind of rendering?
You blame xovers but have you ever heard a well thought multiway system?
Have you ever tried to reproduce a 20db dynamic range material at 3 meter with an average level of 83 to 85 dbspl @ listening position with a single fullrange and some material containing bass?
To be honest i own multiple example of each kind ( FR/ multiway) and don't think one being definitely better than others... it depend of application.
Like Planet10 stated in the first page of this thread some 8 years ago this is a 'pick your poison' situation so why all this?
I wonder... trolling?
I'm sure many people are happy to know you find your audio nirvana.
But what is the point of all this denigration of other people preferences or needs?
I mean is there only one kind of music style or one kind of rendering?
You blame xovers but have you ever heard a well thought multiway system?
Have you ever tried to reproduce a 20db dynamic range material at 3 meter with an average level of 83 to 85 dbspl @ listening position with a single fullrange and some material containing bass?
To be honest i own multiple example of each kind ( FR/ multiway) and don't think one being definitely better than others... it depend of application.
Like Planet10 stated in the first page of this thread some 8 years ago this is a 'pick your poison' situation so why all this?
I wonder... trolling?
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Motzartfan,
Somehow I dont think you should bash someone's driver as "pure garbage"...
Instead, you should make a list, provide a personal rating and include an understandable reason for your rating.
Make a statement like "I think I will not like Fostex or Mark Audio" and leaving it at that is a waste of ASCII characters on whitespace...
I do value other's opinions on such matters. They do influence me and my purchases. But they have to be presented in a manner which doesnt seem like a loose canon firing in random directions. Influence comes from a palpable sense of believe-ability in how words are written and what experience they describe.
I'm actually interested in the particular WB drivers you feel are best. But I wont even bother looking up the particular model when presented with a "these or nothing - all else garbage" zeal. That's ridiculous; reality doesnt work that way. Sound quality approaches perfection on an asymptotic curve; it get a little better with each step taken in the right direction. And each step is typically more "expensive" than the last, either in dollar terms, effort made or ingenuity put forth.
Not change one factor (like eliminate a cross in the 1 - 2KHz region, or this driver versus that one) and God brings musicians back from the dead to personally perform for you live in your listening space. Perhaps "better than anything I've ever heard yet" - or "have for sale in my lineup".
I've recently tried current drive on my FRs, using a line matching transformer backward along with a ballast resistor on the primary. It makes a nicely mesmerizing sound that I cant put my finger on, but I find after doing that, I dont want to go back. Most audiophiles wouldnt touch it with a 10ft pole. Might be right up your alley, as to me, it makes what assisted FR speakers are all about even better.
Notice I didnt say "everyone not using current drive is listening to the worst sound I ever heard - you are all without hope for the only true audio experience until you do this!" Most anyone reading such a phrase would be put off - and likely never experience that sound as a result.
Somehow I dont think you should bash someone's driver as "pure garbage"...
Instead, you should make a list, provide a personal rating and include an understandable reason for your rating.
Make a statement like "I think I will not like Fostex or Mark Audio" and leaving it at that is a waste of ASCII characters on whitespace...
I do value other's opinions on such matters. They do influence me and my purchases. But they have to be presented in a manner which doesnt seem like a loose canon firing in random directions. Influence comes from a palpable sense of believe-ability in how words are written and what experience they describe.
I'm actually interested in the particular WB drivers you feel are best. But I wont even bother looking up the particular model when presented with a "these or nothing - all else garbage" zeal. That's ridiculous; reality doesnt work that way. Sound quality approaches perfection on an asymptotic curve; it get a little better with each step taken in the right direction. And each step is typically more "expensive" than the last, either in dollar terms, effort made or ingenuity put forth.
Not change one factor (like eliminate a cross in the 1 - 2KHz region, or this driver versus that one) and God brings musicians back from the dead to personally perform for you live in your listening space. Perhaps "better than anything I've ever heard yet" - or "have for sale in my lineup".
I've recently tried current drive on my FRs, using a line matching transformer backward along with a ballast resistor on the primary. It makes a nicely mesmerizing sound that I cant put my finger on, but I find after doing that, I dont want to go back. Most audiophiles wouldnt touch it with a 10ft pole. Might be right up your alley, as to me, it makes what assisted FR speakers are all about even better.
Notice I didnt say "everyone not using current drive is listening to the worst sound I ever heard - you are all without hope for the only true audio experience until you do this!" Most anyone reading such a phrase would be put off - and likely never experience that sound as a result.
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I have always used full range drivers for home and mobile disco use.
They often have lumpy frequency responses.
With multi way the crossovers/speakers need to be balanced to get a better sound.
I have always steered away from complicated and expensive cross overs to avoid the problem.
Based on mozartfan's assertion up there somewhere that above 7 to 8 khz doesn't matter except snare drums, I think perhaps he has been listening to a lot of Mozart. Bowed strings mostly. Ie a composer that wrote mostly before pianos were worth the saltpeter to blow them up.No tinkly bells in Mozart, either. My $1000 (used) 1941 Steinway console piano has frequencies in the top octave waaay up there. Yamaha Uboats (consoles) don't have high frequencies. I heard a pianoforte played by Beethoven once on West German radio via WFMT feed on local FM: it sounded like a mid-price upright piano from 1910. I use top octave Steinway tracks to test speakers. Like Peter Nero, Young & Warm & Wonderful, When I Fall in Love track. To really try out the difficult frequencies. My hearing goes to 14 khz, tested. Also Appassionata sonata for the lows, Also ZZ Top Afterburner for the bass drum hits (which don't swoop on my SP2's).
I'd like to hear mozartfan's wide range experiment, but won't be in NewOrleans anytime soon. Only full range for sale here I saw was a Polk at BestBuy, and they weren't demonstrating, only stocking.
As far as crossover problems, I've been happiest so far with 2 ways, 15" + 2" CD horn mostly. Not a lot of choices here in flyover Kentuckiana. Liked the Altec Lansing VOT's in Long Point (Houston) Cinema 1966, when my hearing went to 20 khz. Lord Jim had a lot of jangly tinkly Indonesian instruments.
I'd like to hear mozartfan's wide range experiment, but won't be in NewOrleans anytime soon. Only full range for sale here I saw was a Polk at BestBuy, and they weren't demonstrating, only stocking.
As far as crossover problems, I've been happiest so far with 2 ways, 15" + 2" CD horn mostly. Not a lot of choices here in flyover Kentuckiana. Liked the Altec Lansing VOT's in Long Point (Houston) Cinema 1966, when my hearing went to 20 khz. Lord Jim had a lot of jangly tinkly Indonesian instruments.