Hello Galu. You write about improving the sound using different capacitor types and values , in which post is this ?
Because , in previous posts, you wrote : "The Falcon Acoustics replacement capacitors are physically 100% compatible with the original black ELCAP types.
And Falcon Acoustics know what they are talking about!
The Falcon B139, B110 and T27 replacement drivers are designed by Malcolm Jones who was the original designer of the KEF drivers!
P.S. Eric, do go ahead and change the capacitors.
Having changed out aged ELCAP electrolytics in other speakers, I can assure you the resulting sound improvement is like night and day - and that's without using expensive replacements!
Your Concertos will sound like the day you bought them.
Improving that original sound is another matter, and the posts in this thread also have that possibility covered for your future reference.
Please report back on your experiences with the recapping."
My priority, initially, is to keep things straightforward for Eric
==> this part I understand very well and is a 100% correct . No problem at all. I most certainly am NOT an 'electronic engineer'
But I don't read anything in this post about changing the capacitor values , so I think you refer to to another post?
Or perhaps you mean that the 'Falcon caps' already have different values then the original old elcaps , that's possible too.
Changing the capacitors with 'Falcon capacitors' is the same job as changing them by other capacitors (with other values) , if you know what I mean.
Meanwhile I wish to inform you that in my speakers, I replaced the T27's by Morel Cat 298's. These were advised to me by Falcon.
Bottomline : I just go ahead and replace the capacitors by the ones Falcon recommends , or do you have an even better suggestion which is not to difficult for me to do?
link : KEF CONCERTO REPLACEMENT CAPACITOR SET
And afterwards I will change the connector by the one Jean-Paul has advised me. (Although I can't see any corrosion on it). Connected with a PCB terminal block, surely is better , no doubt about that. Many specialists give me the same advice.
I still listen to the same music ... Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, The Who, Fleetwood Mac, Annie Lennox , ...🙄
Also my ears probably don't hear the same anymore as when I was 20...
I still get 'the' vibes though.
See my post #45. Open the link and see how Falcon talk about component value changes at the bottom and changing driver roll-offs etc. at the top.
All very complicated I think you'll agree!
If you want to keep things simple, then just go ahead and replace the capacitors with the Falcon kit. You won't be disappointed with the results.
And do it now while you are still young! 😀
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I think we have established that corrosion was not the problem.
You just connected the
edge connectors the wrong way round!
You know, Eric, this thread has become even more complicated than the one where I helped you sort out your B139 bolts.
I hope we don't screw this one up! 😀
I hope we don't screw this one up! 😀
I think we have established that corrosion was not the problem.
You just connected the
It was the boards that were put in the other way around. Still the connectors are famous for their unreliability and making it better is almost mandatory, corroded or not. It makes no sense to go on with known mediocre parts while replacing capacitors don't you agree? If they don't have bad contact now they will have next year 🙂 Normally audio stuff is put together with some thought but sometimes bad choices are made that hamper performance. Like these connectors.
In my neck of the woods it is a custom to repair stuff so that it does not fail again within an acceptable amount of time. Now this might be different when it's about nostalgia 😀
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P.S. I thought I'd attached a BIG GRIN to my post #85!
The statement was my attempt at humour, which often does not translate well! 😀
The statement was my attempt at humour, which often does not translate well! 😀
I once built a KEF Acoustic Butterworth Circuit for a Morel CAT 298, bit like this:
I adjusted the value of the 0.6uF for the Morel's 900Hz Fs resonance, the T27 being 1.2kHz, using a simulator.
CAT 298 - Morel
I didn't think it did much. You can simply remove the 0.6uF and it should work well enough. It is essentially an LCR notch designed to get a very exact 18dB/octave slope.
Well, it's worth learning new tricks in this situation...
If you want to use the Falcon filter with a Morel CAT 298, probably two adjustments are necessary.
1) Slight attenuation of the Morel. Maybe add a 2.2R in front of the filter.
2) Adjust the 0.6uF to around 1uF.
And the 10uF/3R may not be required here for treble lift. Take out the capacitor.
AB calculations here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/274614-converting-3rd-butterworth-ab.html#post4331381
Fs is the tendency for tweeters to have a resonant frequency that is ideally equalised in first order filters:
My own effort with the Morel CAT 378:
Stops the tweeter picking up too much 700Hz power and hence reduces distortion and amplitude. Less important with more complex filters.
If you want to use the Falcon filter with a Morel CAT 298, probably two adjustments are necessary.
1) Slight attenuation of the Morel. Maybe add a 2.2R in front of the filter.
2) Adjust the 0.6uF to around 1uF.
And the 10uF/3R may not be required here for treble lift. Take out the capacitor.
AB calculations here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/274614-converting-3rd-butterworth-ab.html#post4331381
Fs is the tendency for tweeters to have a resonant frequency that is ideally equalised in first order filters:
My own effort with the Morel CAT 378:
Stops the tweeter picking up too much 700Hz power and hence reduces distortion and amplitude. Less important with more complex filters.
Would the old T27's sound better than the Morel cat's ?
In my opnion the Morel cat's give more treble than the T27's , but Ok, it's not the original sound.
I can easily replace them with still working T27's. I can buy a pair for €55.
Perhaps I would better wait until I receive the caps for the CO from Falcon , and listen how this sounds first.
Hi Eric, I never listened to the Morels, so can't comment on a comparison. If I had the chance to get real T27 tweeters at a reasonable price, I would not hesitate a second and swap them in.
If the Morels "give more treble", as you say, then the speakers don't have a flat frequency curve with them, and in principle should be adjusted through changing the crossover values – or putting back in T27s.
Contrary to some voices here I find that the T27 are fantastic tweeters. I don't throw many parties anymore, so can't comment on their ruggedness, but I have 4 different pairs of speakers with them, and had not problems whatsoever over the last couple of years.
I like the T27 in its non-butterworth implementation, but think in the end it is preferable with the aB network (I only ever listened to the original one, not to the "simplified" ones Falcon implemented on their Concerto crossover builds (like #33). Both implementations, aB and non aB, have their particular flavour of magic, while the aB network gives more linearity.
With a better crossover than the original DN12, the Concerto has the potential to become a sort of giant LS3/5a. Not really, but it starts to go in this direction. You wouldn't put Morel tweeters in that one, would you?
If the Morels "give more treble", as you say, then the speakers don't have a flat frequency curve with them, and in principle should be adjusted through changing the crossover values – or putting back in T27s.
Contrary to some voices here I find that the T27 are fantastic tweeters. I don't throw many parties anymore, so can't comment on their ruggedness, but I have 4 different pairs of speakers with them, and had not problems whatsoever over the last couple of years.
I like the T27 in its non-butterworth implementation, but think in the end it is preferable with the aB network (I only ever listened to the original one, not to the "simplified" ones Falcon implemented on their Concerto crossover builds (like #33). Both implementations, aB and non aB, have their particular flavour of magic, while the aB network gives more linearity.
With a better crossover than the original DN12, the Concerto has the potential to become a sort of giant LS3/5a. Not really, but it starts to go in this direction. You wouldn't put Morel tweeters in that one, would you?
Hello again...
Last week I finally received the capacitors from Falcon. Ik had to pay another €25 for it in Belgium , due to Brexit😡
I have mounted the capacitors in one crossover , but the sound which comes out of the speaker now , is very very dull.
Perhaps now I've mounted the caps the wrong way ?
Could you please have a look ?
Thank you.
Eric
